What do traditionalists think of LifeTeen Masses' appeal?

[Ray_Scheel]

Cardinal Arinze met with LifeTeen leaders before the new GIRM, and told LT they actually could apply for an indult for the practices in the Mass. He asked them not to because of misunderstandings more than anything.

LT stresses IMMEDIATE obedience.

I have a hard time forgetting that when the LifeTeen leaders met for discussing in the ramp-up to introducing the new GIRM, they had already been out of compliance with the old GIRM for quite some time, knew it, and did nothing to discourage the forbidden practices until they were forced to address the issue. Up until the changes made by LT as the new GIRM was put into effect, the only parish level LT programs that were not violating liturgical law where those that were not fully implementing the practices previously recommended by LT as part of a LT mass. My feelings about the upper level LT leadership have improved considerably now that they are no longer openly resisting obedience to legitimate, in force, liturgical law, but they still have a way to go before I would agree that they are consistently stressing “immediate” obdeience.

 

[agapewolf]

Long before the new GIRM, the bishop of Atlanta asked the LT parishes to stop gathering around the altar. (and it wasn’t because of LT, but because of OTHER abuses going on in the diocese by others having nothing to do with LT) The founder of LT called the Bishop and told him they would obey immediately without complaint (whether each individual did so I’m not sure, but as far as Natl LifeTeen is concerned, thats what they asked the parishes to do).

The few “abuses” there were, they were drawn from the Children’s sacramentary and lectionary. Yes there are arguements about considering teens children, but that was the general idea…bringing the teens around the altar…was as those uncatechized.

I’m not saying that using small loopholes is the wisest way to celebrate liturgies, but there was some rhyme and reason to those actions, not just to be disobedient for the sake of itself.

 

[agapewolf]

Long before the new GIRM, the bishop of Atlanta asked the LT parishes to stop gathering around the altar. (and it wasn’t because of LT, but because of OTHER abuses going on in the diocese by others having nothing to do with LT) The founder of LT called the Bishop and told him they would obey immediately without complaint (whether each individual did so I’m not sure, but as far as Natl LifeTeen is concerned, thats what they asked the parishes to do).

The few “abuses” there were, they were drawn from the Children’s sacramentary and lectionary. Yes there are arguements about considering teens children, but that was the general idea…bringing the teens around the altar…was as those uncatechized.

I’m not saying that using small loopholes is the wisest way to celebrate liturgies, but there was some rhyme and reason to those actions, not just to be disobedient for the sake of itself.

 

[jc-servant]

But I wonder if the teens who attend these masses attend with their parents at the regular mass? Still, I was never personally invovled in these groups so this is my very misinformed opinion.

Yes, at our parish they do go to all masses alone, with another teen friend or with family. They organize their own little pilgrimages and even carpool to get to confession at other parishes when the need arises. I’ve seen our teens at confession and 1st Friday mass 20 minutes away at a monastery chapel too.

One goal which is reached quite often in my experience is for the teens to develop a love for Christ, especially in the Eucharist. It is not enough for them to be Catholic because their parents were Catholic. They need to own their faith and be able to defend it when they leave home.

We have teens who prefer to sit with their entire family whether they attend LT mass or a morning mass. Even the ones who sit with the teens at LT mass have the support of their parents (or their friends’ parents if their own are unsupportive) sitting a few pews back and helping them in their projects. (At our parish the Parents for Life are their own support group which includes adult catechesis and strengthens the entire family.)

I see many teens at daily mass before school because they learned to love ALL masses through LT. I had never seen anything so beautiful as my first LT retreat when 200 teens knelt on a hard floor for hours in Eucharistic adoration after mass. It was not just a peer pressure thing. There were some who only stayed an hour but a large number were there for about 2 hours when other “fun” activities were available.

As another poster noted, many LT kids become amazing evangelists and end up bringing about conversions in the lives of their parents, siblings and classmates. Also, the longest confession lines that I’ve seen outside of parish reconciliation were every Sunday night during our Life nights when our priest would hear confessions in a side room throughout the session. There were always at least 20-30 kids in line every week who chose to possibly miss some “fun” part of the session including the snacks to get into reconciliation.

I hope that you will investigate on your own a good orthodox LT program before joining the bashing bandwagon. God bless.

 

[JamieMc]

As to LifeTeen-bad idea all around. I’ve never been impressed with the idea of “as long as it gets people in the pews”. Big deal and who cares if there are bodies in pews-what matters is the true and traditional understanding of “full and active participation”. How many of these people have a decent understanding of the Mass (what it is, the point of it, what we should be doing at Mass, etc) and take that and use it to build their faith? I’ve met some people that the whole “LifeTeen” thing was beneficial for them and now have moved on to being staunch Catholics. However, I just don’t see why we need to kowtow to fads. The idea should be, “This is the Church, this is what we believe, do, how we worship, etc. Take it or leave it.”

Big deal and who cares of there are bodies in the pews?? Yeah–yeah–it is kind of a big deal. For some of these kids the first step is GETTING them in in the pews and then you move on and learning the “full and active participation.” You’ve met some people who have benifited from LT and grown up to be staunch Catholics?? How many of them would have stayed in the faith if they hadn’t had LT?? How many would have?? How many left the faith because of LT?? How many souls have to be saved before it’s okay with you. Or is it okay if they are forever lost because it’s not exactly how you chose to worship??

I teach confirmation and it breaks my heart to have these kids who just don’t care, don’t understand their faith, and are only there because they see confirmation as “punching their card, something they have to do” or “graduating” What is so disheartening because I’ve been to NCYC and seen kids in love with Christ. Where some there for the experience and for the social aspect of it?? Sure, probably, but I expect even they took something away from it.

It’s difficult because I so want to share my faith with these kids, make them fall in love with Jesus and to understand their catholic faith and I get great joy in seeing kids who have been confirmed continue to come to mass, sometimes without their families but with their friends.

Some kids may not need it—they may have a strong family foundation who has raised them to understand the Church but people—there is a lapse in our church today. So many people just don’t get it—there is like a gap and SOMETHING has to be done.

I’m just really frustrated because I see these kids and I feel like I am losing them and feel like I need to start with square one with some of them “God created the world” and it doesn’t even seem like their parents really care. And I see a program, and to be honest, I am not really familiar with, except that I’ve frequented their website, that has a chance with these kids, that catches their eye, and may bring the kids to the faith and I see people criticizing it because they don’t worship exactly the way THEY want to worship. Because the liturgy may be something the kids enjoy it is wrong. ASSUMING that there is no liturgical abuses then how can you criticize it. If there are liturgical abuses then criticize away.

 

[Resurrexit]

Or is it okay if they are forever lost because it’s not exactly how you chose to worship??

“Well, you worship God in your way, I’ll worship Him in His.” Cardinal Manning

 

[JamieMc]

“Well, you worship God in your way, I’ll worship Him in His.” Cardinal Manning

Oh no, you can’t pull that on me!! I said, “as long as there are no liturgical abuses.” Meaning that if it is done correctly. You see—I’ve been at mass in several different enviroments. From a small parish with probably no more than ten rows of pews, to inner city parishes, Cathedrals, Basillicas. I’ve been to mass at Boy Scout camp on the bluffs of the Missouri River and while in the Marine Corps in the hills of Camp Pendleton and the deserts of 29 Palms. I’ve been to mass with thousands of teens and a bunch of bishops at the RCADome and of course at my current humble post-Vatican II parish. And you know what?? I loved them all because in all of them Jesus Christ was present in the Eucharist and you could feel the love.
I’m not talking about worshiping how I want by staying at home and watching football or going to a protestant chuch or some Halloween mass. I mean by attending a Holy Mass that is done correctly, reverntly, and respectfully, but maybe with a little different music, maybe in a little different enviroment.

 

[Jaz_B07]

I have not finished reading this entire thread because quite frankly I get tired of reading all of the negative generalizations and bashing about LT mass from people who have perhaps seen one badly done or just heard about LT mass from others. I have not done a study of the entire church so I can only provide antedotal evidence of the fruits of a good, orthodox LT program. The music at mass may not be for everyone all of the time since it ranges from old Latin to contemporary, but the teaching is rock solid.

I’m providing a link to show you our young men discerning to become priests and monks after coming through LT. All of them are quite orthodox including the 2 sons of Dr. Marcellino D’ Ambrosio. In large part as a fruit of our LT ministry our parish became the 1st (and still only) Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration parish in our diocese on 5/28/05 to pray for more religious vocations from our parish.

stannparish.org/fform/formations/9/information.html?id=354

I’m glad you provided the link. A lot of people on here seem to think that Life Teen is no different from an Evangelical youth group, with nothing distinctly Catholic about it. But that couldn’t be further from the truth. Before I went to Life Teen, when I was in CCD classes, I had no idea what Adoration was. I really had no grasp of what the Eucharist was. But Life Teen changed all that. My Catholic faith is so strong now. I often hear my LT friends at school defending the faith against people who say things about Catholicism. Music is just one aspect of Life Teen, but it seems like everyone wants to focus on that part the most.

I looked around the website and it looks like a really nice parish w/ lots going on. 18,000 members! Wow! Oh and the Youth Minister has a really pretty family lol…

 

[Leeta]

I won’t let my children attend anything that smacks of protestant worship which unfortunately includes most parishes around here. Life Teen sounds like such a Mass, separating parents from teens and using non-liturgical music. Giving kids stones instead of the bread of a traditional Catholic Mass is not right. Protestants put on the similar entertainments. Now there is apparently some variation in the LT Masses. But if they are traditionally celebrated . how is that any different than any other Mass?

 

[hamspam]

“Life Teen Masses” are a regular mass…just sponsored by the Life Teen program, meaning that confirmed youth serve as extraordinary ministers (when needed), and as lectors, altar servers, and ushers. The music is more modern, but, at least at our parish, decidedly liturgical. It soudns like maybe there are quite a few parishes out there that take way too many liberties, but that has more to do with the parishes and broader problems with our society/culture. The life teen program and what we teach the kids is actually quite orthodox and many would think conservative. In fact, in a neighboring parish that wanted to start a youth program, we were invited to come and talk. We mentioned about the the centrality of the Eucharist, the frequent experiences with Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, and supporting devotions like the rosary. I was later told that the pastoral team at that parish (many of whom are involved at high levels in our diocese) thought that the program was too “devotional”. To go from this criticism, to the complete opposite criticisms in these blogs just blows my mind!!
First of all, I love that Life Teen supports and fosters devotion to the Eucharist and to our Blessed Mother. I just wish all those wishy washy parishes who call themselves LT but actually aren’t would just stop giving us a bad name.

 

[latinmass]

Teens that stay in the Church that were in LT, don’t stay in the Church because of LT, they stay in the Church in spite of LT. Why do Catholics fall into the trap of society that kids need MTV style masses to keep them in the Church. We can have teen Catholic groups who go to mass that follow the rubrics, and most importantly, go to mass with their families, and after mass go and have pizza and study the bible.

 

[DustinsDad]

I went to a NO mass this past Saturday, a men’s prayer breakfast/conference type thing. In the mass they had the guitar music and the modern music…you know…the hand-holding Marty Haugen and David Haas stuff. Pretty much the worst music you can find as far as drawing out the natural God-given masculinity in us guys.

My point being that I feel about the LifeTeen stuff the same as I felt this past Saturday at the men’s prayer breakfast - that is that the well intentioned folks therein might get an A for effort, but I think the efforts will be without a whole heck-of-a-lotta fruit because they are using things and elements in the liturgy that have proven not to have any lasting effectiveness and power. And I dare say that they can even push folks away because of the inherent “hokiness” of these things. (I’m sorry, that’s just the word that immediately comes to mind).

The tried and true (i.e. the traditional music, devotions, liturgy, etc.) has been proven to work over the centuries - I see it lived out every week at my traditional parish (oratory) - in the lives of grown men and teenagers…it crosses all spectrums of race, sex and age.

So I think these folks are trying - even with all good intentions - to reinvent the wheel - fix something that wasn’t broken - to put a new “relevant” spin on something that quite simply…doesn’t need it. All we really need to do is *cherish *what has been given to us down through the ages - not second-guess it.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[agr4028]

The tried and true (i.e. the traditional music, devotions, liturgy, etc.) has been proven to work over the centuries - I see it lived out every week at my traditional parish (oratory) - in the lives of grown men and teenagers…it crosses all spectrums of race, sex and age.Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

If the “tried and true” from over the centuries was so flawless, why have denominations (or nondenominatinals) outside of the Catholic Church grown so heavily in the past five hundred years?

It obviously did NOT work to perfection, or everyone would be Catholic.

 

[East_and_West]

While I don’t much enjoy the LT mass becuase I don’t like the music, the program bears much fruit with regard to repentance and conversion.

 

[agr4028]

While I don’t much enjoy the LT mass becuase I don’t like the music, the program bears much fruit with regard to repentance and conversion.

I don’t care for the music either, but the love and reverence shown by the kids is really moving at my parish.

 

[DustinsDad]

If the “tried and true” from over the centuries was so flawless, why have denominations (or nondenominatinals) outside of the Catholic Church grown so heavily in the past five hundred years?

Free will.

I dare say the most effective antidote to those leaving HMC for false religions is not to imitate said false religions, but to more faithfully and lovingly hold to what has been handed down throughout the ages.

Council of Trent, Session 22, Chapter V
And whereas such is the nature of man, that, without external helps, he cannot easily be raised to the meditation of divine things; therefore has holy Mother Church instituted certain rites, to wit that certain things be pronounced in the mass in a low, and others in a louder, tone. She has likewise employed ceremonies, such as mystic benedictions, lights, incense, vestments, and many other things of this kind, derived from an apostolical discipline and tradition, whereby both the majesty of so great a sacrifice might be recommended, and the minds of the faithful be excited, by those visible signs of religion and piety, to the contemplation of those most sublime things which are hidden in this sacrifice.

It obviously did NOT work to perfection, or everyone would be Catholic.

Perfection was not something I claimed - that will come at the end of time. Until then - we’ve got to do the best we can do, and hold and cherish what HMC has given to us down through the ages.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[Michael_Neal]

What do you have to say about this program?
catholicunderground.net/

It combines Eucharistic Adoration with modern contemporary music played by live bands. One of the band is even comprised of Franciscan Friars.

I don’t see the harm in LT or Catholic Underground, they are great ways to reach out. The problem seems to be with the implementation in certain parishes. However, these parishes are probably guilty of liturgical abuse already in their regular masses.

The problems are the liturgical abuses not the programs themselves. Stay focuses and on target, otherwise you end up removing the good with the bad.

 

[DustinsDad]

I don’t care for the music either, but the love and reverence shown by the kids is really moving at my parish.

Where the LifeTeen is bearing fruit - I’d bet that they are also fostering tradtional devotions along with the “newer” things - recitation of the rosary, Eucharistic adoration, regular time set aside for confessions, etc.

I just think that if they did these things and included a more reverant liturgy - (how about a bus ride to a EF Solemn High Mass once a month!?!?) - and sound catechesis to boot…woh…then you’d really, really have something!!!

I just think that the notion that you have to make a certain mass “relevant” to teens is barking up the wrong tree.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[agr4028]

Where the LifeTeen is bearing fruit - I’d bet that they are also fostering tradtional devotions along with the “newer” things - recitation of the rosary, Eucharistic adoration, confessions, etc.

I just think that if they did these things and included a more reverant liturgy - (how about a bus ride to a EF Solemn High Mass once a month!?!?) - and sound catechesis to boot…woh…then you’d really, really have something!!!

I just think that the notion that you have to make a certain mass “relevant” to teens is barking up the wrong tree.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

The LT Mass at my parish intermixes latin prayer between consecration and Communion with the “modern” music for hymns.

 

[DustinsDad]

The LT Mass at my parish intermixes latin prayer between consecration and Communion with the “modern” music for hymns.

Try to throw in a traditional classic hymn - if possible, try to teach a little Gregorian Chant.

Try to get the LifeTeen leaders to give it a whirl, I’ll betcha the kids would eat it up

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad