What do traditionalists think of LifeTeen Masses' appeal?

[ethelzguy]

ethylzguy,
You said,
Which is cynical in nature then they said,
Then you said,
You were refering to posters here not posters at your Church right??? Just because you inside quotes doesnt mean you aren’t held accountable for what you say it just means that anyone who wants to quote you hs to copy and paste a lot.
Please drop the innocent act and stop making so many backhanded comments. One may read a lot of your posts and come away with a different idea of you than you want to send out.

Ok, I think I follow where you’re going with this.

Yes, I compared the teens at my parish LifeTeen mass to some of the “oh so holy” posters HERE…gotcha.

No, I will not name names. Their posts speak for themselves.

 

[ILUVGSUS2]

There is much more to Life Teen than the mass! There are some wonderful programs out there.

 

[Matt33]

Teens go to LT because they feel like they belong and are loved. They are among their own community, just as teens tend to be independent on their own, having their own community to pray with is important. LT encourages the teens to bring prayer and faith into their families and become closer to them.

THe last part of your statement is just absolutely ridiculous… TLM sacrifice has more merit because it’s Mass doesn’t feel good? ARe you serious? really? TLM Mass has no emotion therefore it must be better? This is ridiculous. They can unite their “sacrifice” just as easy in either Mass. Maybe for some teens, easier in LT

Our teens pay $150 to live at the seminary for a week in June wihtout A/C to do hard physical labor at work sites for 6 hours during the day, have silent time every day, do morning LOTH, have a lifenight every night (night of catechesis/teaching, etc), adoriaton 2-3 times that week, reconcilation, pray a rosary daily, and have lack of good sleep all week. THeir bodies hurt and they JOYFULLY go. We have waiting lists to get kids into the experience.

THATS enough said.

I do agree that the TLM comparrison is ridiculous. The original poster of that has a really wierd way of looking at the TLM in regards to the emotional aspect. Actually I don’t see why anyone would eve bring it up? We are talking about LT masses here and thier struggle to engaige and remain “Catholic”:
Many LT programs are different, Yours sounds blessed, I wish more in our area were as you describe yours. Part of me wonders just how relevant LT is anymore. We use A LT skeleton for our nights and mix it with another newer form Called DTS (Dead theologions society) because it focuses a lot on saints and more seriousness than LT. Niether program seems to have it all but properly blended they are pretty powerful. We also do our own nights, focusing on social responsibility, Pro life, Apologetic, and sometimes just flat out goofing around.

 

[Matt33]

There is much more to Life Teen than the mass! There are some wonderful programs out there.

??? EVERYTHING is about the Mass. Just as Mary should point us to Christ, LT should point us to the Mass. There are many wonderful groups out there but if they are MORE than the mass then, my friend, they have failed miserably.

 

[NicPais83]

Having suddenly found myself considered to legally be an adult (although I don’t yet think of myself as one), I never liked it as a teen/child having things try to be “dumbed down” or made to be “appealing” to teens/kids. It always felt like the substance was robbed from a scenario in order to make me feel like I was contributing to something. A good example was when I was little, Nickelodeon had a Sunday night news show for children, called fittingly “Nick News.” It would talk about the issues that were “important” to us kids, and it always felt like I was being spoken down to, since programs like this always act like children can’t think.

Now, I’m not saying that children should be exposed to everything adult, but children need to be encouraged to think. This comes back to the Mass in the same way. If it is robbed of its substance, then there’s nothing remaining that causes kids and teens to think and experience the Sacraments. There’s nothing remaining that’s left with you in the end.

 

[agapewolf]

??? EVERYTHING is about the Mass. Just as Mary should point us to Christ, LT should point us to the Mass. There are many wonderful groups out there but if they are MORE than the mass then, my friend, they have failed miserably.

Matt33, of course your statement above is correct, but please read the original sentence in context…

there is more to LIFETEEN than the mass. Meaning, its not just the Mass that is the program. The program is centered around the Mass, however, there are more components. (the lifenight.)

 

[Matt33]

Having suddenly found myself considered to legally be an adult (although I don’t yet think of myself as one), I never liked it as a teen/child having things try to be “dumbed down” or made to be “appealing” to teens/kids. It always felt like the substance was robbed from a scenario in order to make me feel like I was contributing to something. A good example was when I was little, Nickelodeon had a Sunday night news show for children, called fittingly “Nick News.” It would talk about the issues that were “important” to us kids, and it always felt like I was being spoken down to, since programs like this always act like children can’t think.

Now, I’m not saying that children should be exposed to everything adult, but children need to be encouraged to think. This comes back to the Mass in the same way. If it is robbed of its substance, then there’s nothing remaining that causes kids and teens to think and experience the Sacraments. There’s nothing remaining that’s left with you in the end.

[SIGN]AMEN[/SIGN]

 

[Matt33]

Matt33, of course your statement above is correct, but please read the original sentence in context…

there is more to LIFETEEN than the mass. Meaning, its not just the Mass that is the program. The program is centered around the Mass, however, there are more components. (the lifenight.)

Right, I thought everyone in this discussion realized that. read the way you want to interpret it it sure seems like an obvious statement. What isthe point of making an obvious statement.

 

[agapewolf]

Right, I thought everyone in this discussion realized that. read the way you want to interpret it it sure seems like an obvious statement. What isthe point of making an obvious statement.

Well, if you read the so many posts here that accuse lifeteen of not teaching real catechesis, and that they are encouraging inappropriate behavior, I guess it needs to be said.

LT Mass often gets many teens in the door that would not otherwise come. After getting them to a lifenight, where we love them, teach them about appropriate behavior, dress, and they see their peers behaving in such way, its a whole different game.

 

[ILUVGSUS2]

Matt33, of course your statement above is correct, but please read the original sentence in context…

there is more to LIFETEEN than the mass. Meaning, its not just the Mass that is the program. The program is centered around the Mass, however, there are more components. (the lifenight.)

thanks Agapewolf! I should have chosen better words, but you got the message!

Thanks!

 

[Matt33]

Well, if you read the so many posts here that accuse lifeteen of not teaching real catechesis, and that they are encouraging inappropriate behavior, I guess it needs to be said.

LT Mass often gets many teens in the door that would not otherwise come. After getting them to a lifenight, where we love them, teach them about appropriate behavior, dress, and they see their peers behaving in such way, its a whole different game.

LT does not teach real catechesis, it teaches some catechisis. It does little to talk about the foundation of our faith and the saints, or the resposibilities of growing into a Catholic adulthood. What it does do is exactly what you said It can “convert” some people who really need it. But by dumbing down it can also lose some who are at a very critical point in thier lives. IT’s goal is noble and that is why I am involved and yes lifenights are crucial in the formation of these young minds. But the mass itself should not be altered to fit them, we should alter them and ourselves to fit the mass, which is the original discussion of this thread.

 

[palmas85]

Well, if you read the so many posts here that accuse lifeteen of not teaching real catechesis, and that they are encouraging inappropriate behavior, I guess it needs to be said.

**LT Mass often gets many teens in the door that would not otherwise come. **After getting them to a lifenight, where we love them, teach them about appropriate behavior, dress, and they see their peers behaving in such way, its a whole different game.

I just did a google search on the subject and I found out, quite to my surprise, that a previous statement made about Lifeteen was actually true. The statement was that youth attendance at Lifeteen was required at many Parishes in order to be confirmed. I thought, when I read that statement that it was probably false. I knew that it was required in a few places, my old Parish in San Diego for one. There, ALL the kids in CCD had to be members and attend Lifeteen Masses, and other functions such as Life Nite , , which is one of the reasons I am opposed to the program actually. I am no fan of Lifeteen at all, but I wanted to be fair and after reading all the praise about the large numbers of Kids that go, I thought I would check it out,

On just the first three pages, I found five parishes that required that youth either be actively involved in Lifeteen or at a minimum to attend Lifeteen Masses. Three other Parishes highly reccomended that the kids do so. I can tell you that in CCD if something is highly reccommended it is tantamount to being a requirement and failure to do so could actually be construed as disinterest on the part of the confirmand.

So it does seem that at least in a good number of parishes, Lifeteen involvement is in fact mandatory and not something that the kids choose to do. Not saying that is true in all cases, but true none the less.

 

[Cantaloupe]

Hi there-
I will talk with personal experience. LifeTeen does teach real catechesis. I was a teen in LifeTeen. In LifeTeen we always talked about the saints and the foundation of our Faith. If it was not for LifeTeen, I don’t know where I would be in my Faith life. That program is to help teens have a life in Christ and grow into adults having a life in Christ. There is no dumbing down in LifeTeen. The Mass is not altered to fit the teens…

LT does not teach real catechesis, it teaches some catechisis. It does little to talk about the foundation of our faith and the saints, or the resposibilities of growing into a Catholic adulthood. What it does do is exactly what you said It can “convert” some people who really need it. But by dumbing down it can also lose some who are at a very critical point in thier lives. IT’s goal is noble and that is why I am involved and yes lifenights are crucial in the formation of these young minds. But the mass itself should not be altered to fit them, we should alter them and ourselves to fit the mass, which is the original discussion of this thread.

 

[agapewolf]

LT does not teach real catechesis, it teaches some catechisis. It does little to talk about the foundation of our faith and the saints, or the resposibilities of growing into a Catholic adulthood. What it does do is exactly what you said It can “convert” some people who really need it. But by dumbing down it can also lose some who are at a very critical point in thier lives. IT’s goal is noble and that is why I am involved and yes lifenights are crucial in the formation of these young minds. But the mass itself should not be altered to fit them, we should alter them and ourselves to fit the mass, which is the original discussion of this thread.

Matt33, please only speak for yourself. LT DOES teach real catechesis where I am. They do a whole semester on St. Paul. They spend time on all of it…including foundations, history, saints, etc.

 

[agapewolf]

The requirement to attend a lifeteen mass/lifenight is NOT A PART OF THE PROGRAM of lifeteen. LT says attendance should be voluntary and not forced.

Don’t dislike the program for that reason, as it is not the programs fault.

 

[palmas85]

The requirement to attend a lifeteen mass/lifenight is NOT A PART OF THE PROGRAM of lifeteen. LT says attendance should be voluntary and not forced.

Don’t dislike the program for that reason, as it is not the programs fault.

It may not be part of the overall program, but it is required in apparently many place and could, at least theoretically explain the large numbers that attend.

As far as disliking the program itself, that reason was just one of many.

As to it not being the programs fault from everything I’ve read nothing is the programs fault. Absolutely nothing…

 

[Matt33]

Matt33, please only speak for yourself. LT DOES teach real catechesis where I am. They do a whole semester on St. Paul. They spend time on all of it…including foundations, history, saints, etc.

No NO NO NO, LT does NOT teach these things… some of us Youth ministers incorporate these things into life nights but The actual LT format does not. Granted LT does suggest that you develop thier own program and fine tune it to your needs it does provide a minute by minute breakdown for the nights, which to be honest are light and fluffy.
This is a reason why we had to incorporate DTS into LT.

St paul is probably added becaue it is his year. But the actual format does little with saints and truely does little with Mass education (hence the problem cited in this thread) There is a saint thrown in here or there but it is really skimpy. If what you are describing at your parish is true then it is due to the hard work of the Youth Ministers, not necessarly the product of LT’s packaging.

 

[Matt33]

Matt33, please only speak for yourself…

This is understood unless someone say’s, And I speak for all…" Must I preface everything with “I only speak for myself” I am the only one at my comp so I would think that that would be evident, just as everyone else here speaks for themselves, Canteloupe spoke for his/herself and I spoke for myself… get it we all have our own opinions.

 

[agapewolf]

This is understood unless someone say’s, And I speak for all…" Must I preface everything with “I only speak for myself” I am the only one at my comp so I would think that that would be evident, just as everyone else here speaks for themselves, Canteloupe spoke for his/herself and I spoke for myself… get it we all have our own opinions.

Yes, you do need to preface this “in my experience, LT does not or does…whatever”…

Because that is YOUR experience. I have the LT planning books in front of me. Every lifenight has saints attached to it. Every lifenight has catechism references attached to it. It gives a template…and in training, it is stated very clearly that it is not meant to exist by itself …that it should be developed. The LT nights are a template ONLY. And they really only work when the core is very involved in a personal way with the teens, otherwise, the nights read by themselves can be juvenile (admittedly some are, but they are only put in there if they have been successfully used at a parish first).

I dont understand why it having a semester on St. Paul becuase its the year of St. Paul would lessen its credibility. In fact, that means a little more that it is keeping up with the Church and the pope. Actually, the semester I was referring to was from 99.

 

[CradleCath]

Having suddenly found myself considered to legally be an adult (although I don’t yet think of myself as one), I never liked it as a teen/child having things try to be “dumbed down” or made to be “appealing” to teens/kids. It always felt like the substance was robbed from a scenario in order to make me feel like I was contributing to something. A good example was when I was little, Nickelodeon had a Sunday night news show for children, called fittingly “Nick News.” It would talk about the issues that were “important” to us kids, and it always felt like I was being spoken down to, since programs like this always act like children can’t think.

Now, I’m not saying that children should be exposed to everything adult, but children need to be encouraged to think. This comes back to the Mass in the same way. If it is robbed of its substance, then there’s nothing remaining that causes kids and teens to think and experience the Sacraments. There’s nothing remaining that’s left with you in the end.

You make some good points. As a teenager, I HAD to go to daily Mass in the high school I attended. We all lined up & processed into the chapel & if one of the nuns noticed that you were missing, you were in TROUBLE!! It was the traditional Latin Mass & no one ‘dumbed it down’ for us, I wouldn’t have had it any other way & I would have been insulted had anyone tried.
We were expected…after 8 prior years of daily Mass while in elementaty school…to know every part of the Mass & be able to say most of the Latin prayers, the Agnus Dei, the Sanctus, the Credo, etc. & we knew the Latin Mass responses totally. After all, I was 13 yrs. old when I started high school & took Latin the first two years, as many did in those days.

I don’t think that teenagers have changed that much. By that age they shouldn’t need to be entertained at/ “drawn to” Mass & I don’t think they want to be.

When my own 4 started Catholicschool, there wasn’t a single teaching nun left in our city. I’d like to say it made no difference, it did. The children aren’t children anymore. In fact, the’re out of college. They all went away to the University & could have stopped going to Mass then, for no one was there to see. However, my youngest told me once that a friend of his asked him once why he still went to Church, since “no one would know” if he missed. His answer, “Because that’s what I do on Sunday morning”.