What do Ya'll non-Catholics think of this:

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Listen, people.
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  This is how miracles work.  God is the One who makes the sole determination as to whether or not a miracle is to take place.  Nobody on this Earth has a clue as to what goes into the decision making processes of God.  Even when God performs miracles through His saints while they are still here, He does the miracles for one reason and one reason only - there is an extreme need on the part of the human being(s) involved for proof of some kind of His existence, power, mercy, whatever it is He is trying to prove.  What I just said may seem contradictory, but what I mean is that only God knows the level of need that is in a human being's heart and mind.  The less need a human has, the less need for God to perform a miracle.  

  Take your basic any Sunday Mass for example - nobody expects the same miracle that is described in the original post here.  They hear the readings and Homily, take Communion, pray, and go home.  But, then again, there may be an acceptable level of belief in that congregation that would cause God to feel that no miracle is necessary.  The way we don't hear about miracles every day 3x's a day, one would be led to believe that belief in Jesus and His salvific Eucharist is really quite strong.  I always thank Jesus for agreeing to be a part of my life when I get back to my pew, so I must believe somewhat.  There's nothing to say that the same miracle could not happen in any given church if a member(s) of the congregation was having serious doubts about his/her faith.  This is just the way I see it.
Tracy
 
HashemEchad said:
BTW, Paul is the one who decided to bring the new religious system to the Gentiles…because he realized (intelligently) that since 99 1/2% of all Jews soundly rejected the new belief system, if he did not take it to the Gentiles it would not survive. And he wanted it to survive.

You make this sound like a bad thing. Jesus doesn’t discriminate. If it were up to Him, everyone would be a Christian and we’d all be one big happy Spiritual family, but people have free will, so it’s not Jesus’ call, unfortunately. I think it speaks very well of Jesus that He was interested in getting anyone and everyone to join Him in His quest for a better world and the spiritual journey to Heaven.

That’s also why the new belief system was “gentilized” (got rid of circumcision, kosher laws and the like)…because Paul recognized that Gentiles would never accept the new religion if he didn’t do that.

My parish priest says that the “old” belief system was a preparation for the “new” belief system of Christianity. Jews already were used to self-sacrifice and stuff, so when Jesus introduced the Sacraments, it was supposed to be just a hop, skip, and jump for them. It didn’t work out that way for every Jew, though. Most just didn’t see it that way.

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HashemEchad said:
If Catholics do not worship blood and flesh (or should I say, the belief that bread and wine become flesh and blood), why do you have Benediction services, where hymns and sung to a wafer inside a monstrance?
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“A wafer”? You understand that we believe it to be Jesus Christ, yes? So to us, would it not be logical to worship what we believe to be our Lord? We worship CHRIST in the Holy Eucharist. It is not simply flesh and blood.

Also, it seems that you are under the impression that the Church conducted these tests. To my knowledge, Odoargo Linoli and many other scientists who studied it were not even Catholic (Yes, I am an idiot and may be wrong! 👍 I accept that!)

And I’m not angry, but please do not call the Eucharist “disgusting”. This is what we believe to be our Lord, remember. Christ deigned to let the accidents of bread and wine remain because of our human limitedness to be “disgusted” by something that is actually so beautiful.
 
HashemEchad said:
If Catholics do not worship blood and flesh (or should I say, the belief that bread and wine become flesh and blood), why do you have Benediction services, where hymns and sung to a wafer inside a monstrance?
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“A wafer”? You understand that we believe it to be Jesus Christ, yes? So to us, would it not be logical to worship what we believe to be our Lord? We worship CHRIST in his fullness in the Holy Eucharist. It is not simply flesh and blood.

Also, it seems that you are under the impression that the Church conducted these tests. To my knowledge, Odoargo Linoli and many other scientists who studied it were not even Catholic (Yes, I am an idiot and may be wrong! 👍 I accept that!)

I don’t know how convinced you would be of these, coming from a Catholic website, but there also microscans of the body and blood showing that it is flesh and blood…

And I’m not angry, but please do not call the Eucharist “disgusting”. This is what we believe to be our Lord, remember. Christ deigned to let the accidents of bread and wine remain because of our human limitedness to be “disgusted” by something that is actually so beautiful.
 
If Catholics want to make a saint do they use science to prove the miricals?

After mass could they do the same?

Gods laws are consistent arnt they?

Jesus (PBWH) is narrated as saying something like this is my body and this is my blood i give it up for you now do this in memory of me.

If catholics truly do this at mass God can work miricals for beliving submitters.

Pray and ask your self when reading scripture "what would i believe if NO PERSON had taught me what is ment by the words i read.

Its a great saftey check for those who dont bare false witness.

God bless you all.

Its not about getting, its about giving.
Its not about proving its about showing.
 
HashemEchad said:
What “was the OT, it is the NT now”. Really? Only in your (Christian) world, not mine. The Torah is very much alive in traditional Judaism!

If Catholics do not worship blood and flesh (or should I say, the belief that bread and wine become flesh and blood), **why do you have Benediction services, where hymns and sung to a wafer inside a monstrance? **
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I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not realiize what a grevious insult the above is to Catholics. Did you really intend to mock us? To belittle the most sacred tenants of our Faith?

You owe this group an apology.
 
HashemEchad said:
What “was the OT, it is the NT now”. Really? Only in your (Christian) world, not mine. The Torah is very much alive in traditional Judaism!

If Catholics do not worship blood and flesh (or should I say, the belief that bread and wine become flesh and blood), why do you have Benediction services, where hymns and sung to a wafer inside a monstrance?
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1 Corinthians 1:27-29

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
 
estesbob said:
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not realiize what a grevious insult the above is to Catholics. Did you really intend to mock us? To belittle the most sacred tenants of our Faith?

You owe this group an apology.
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Hmm. Well, I’m a Catholic and I didn’t consider it mockery, or needing an apology.

Also, I totally understand why someone would find the Lanciano miracle disturbing. I too find some of the alleged Eucharistic miracles borderline disgusting. And once again, I am a Catholic.
 
The Eucharist is not intended to bring visible miracles but spiritual health to those who have the right disposition towards it. I will ask you this why is it that those who are devil worshippers and in league with Satan if they could would desecrate consecrated hosts if it wasn’t the Lord Jesus himself? And in regard to the response that most Protestants don’t believe in it, it was only since the 1500’s that the belief of the real presence was disputed by Protestants. The belief was held since apostolic times except for a few heretical sects.
 
theistgal said:
Hmm. Well, I’m a Catholic and I didn’t consider it mockery, or needing an apology.

Also, I totally understand why someone would find the Lanciano miracle disturbing. I too find some of the alleged Eucharistic miracles borderline disgusting. And once again, I am a Catholic.
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Do you Believe in the Real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist ?
 
It is amazing how a Catholic would find the Eucharistic miracles disgusting. I consider it a truly marvelous miracle that God himeself would humble himself and come in the form of bread and wine. To me it is the most precious gift. But of course there are those who don’t believe or are unworthy to receive. I guess that is why it would condemn those and not sanctify them.
 
estesbob said:
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not realiize what a grevious insult the above is to Catholics. Did you really intend to mock us? To belittle the most sacred tenants of our Faith?

You owe this group an apology.
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I am Catholic and am offended by the mockery of some of these posters on this thread. Blessings to those strong Catholics like estesbob and Techno2000 who defend the Catholic faith against the mockery of unbelievers.

A miracle wouldn’t be a miracle if it was visible and seen every day would it now??? This incredible miracle of the Host of Luciano was for Catholics who were becoming indifferent to the REAL presence of Our Lord Jesus truly present in the Host.

There are many many miracle of the Host becoming the “body” of Our Lord. I feel only great love and deep respect for Our Lord allowing this miracle to happen. Whether non catholics or non believers believe or not - I really don’t care.
 
If Catholics are going to publicize things like Lanciano, they’re going to have to be able to deal with those of us (evidently, including some Catholics) who find such concepts repulsive.

The Tibetan Buddhists, when a person dies, leave the body on cliffs for vultures to eat. In their mind, that is a more natural way to dispose of a body rather than burying or cremation. I find it repellent, but then again, I’m not a Tibetan Buddhist and I don’t have to accept it. They don’t find it disgusting because they grew up with the concept.
 
estesbob said:
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do not realiize what a grevious insult the above is to Catholics. Did you really intend to mock us? To belittle the most sacred tenants of our Faith?

You owe this group an apology.
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I’m not able to call it what you do, because I do not believe it is that. I have to call it what it appears to be: a wafer. After all, doesn’t your faith teach it is the body, blood, soul and divinity of the nazarene under the appearance of bread and wine?

Well, I’m referring to how it APPEARS to me. I certainly can’t refer to it as you do, because I don’t believe it IS that.
 
theistgal said:
Hmm. Well, I’m a Catholic and I didn’t consider it mockery, or needing an apology.

Also, I totally understand why someone would find the Lanciano miracle disturbing. I too find some of the alleged Eucharistic miracles borderline disgusting. And once again, I am a Catholic.
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I dont know which is worse-a non-catholic mocking the Eucharist or a Catholic who thinks its ok.
 
estesbob said:
I dont know which is worse-a non-catholic mocking the Eucharist or a Catholic who thinks its ok.
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I’ve had Catholics on this forum mock aspects of my faith. I did not complain because frankly, I expected it. Catholics do not exactly have a glorious history of respect for those of other faiths, esp. mine.
 
HashemEchad said:
If Catholics are going to publicize things like Lanciano, they’re going to have to be able to deal with those of us (evidently, including some Catholics) who find such concepts repulsive.

The Tibetan Buddhists, when a person dies, leave the body on cliffs for vultures to eat. In their mind, that is a more natural way to dispose of a body rather than burying or cremation. I find it repellent, but then again, I’m not a Tibetan Buddhist and I don’t have to accept it. They don’t find it disgusting because they grew up with the concept.
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You mocked Benediction-not Lanciano. You expect respect for your religion but mock ours.
 
theistgal said:
Hmm. Well, I’m a Catholic and I didn’t consider it mockery, or needing an apology.

Also, I totally understand why someone would find the Lanciano miracle disturbing. I too find some of the alleged Eucharistic miracles borderline disgusting. And once again, I am a Catholic.
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Well then you are not a very good Catholic from your post. Anyone who finds this disgusting, is indeed a so called ‘Catholic’ in disguise.
 
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