What do Ya'll non-Catholics think of this:

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The other poster implies that the God of Israel has abandoned the people of Israel (the Jews).

To this non-Catholic, it looks far more as if He has abandoned your church. Ever since V2, it has been falling apart, what with clown masses, various other ridiculousness…not to mention that in my city, the buses and subways are loaded with really expensive advertisements, begging Catholics to come back to the Catholic church.

Sounds to me as if the Catholic flood that began after V2 has turned into a tsunami.

Therefore, before any of you try to convert non-Catholics, maybe you need to work more on bringing back the millions who have left.

As the saying goes, “Physician, heal thyself first”. And fix your church! Make it what it used to be, 100%!

Margarite, God bless you! You understanding perfectly, from BOTH sides of the fence!

I do have to say that (except for the antisemitism), I have always greatly admired the Catholic church from before Vatican II. It was a church full of beauty, stunning liturgy, breathtaking Renaissance artwork…perhaps the closest anyone could come to heaven on earth. Yes, I truly do mean that, even though I personally find the doctrines of the Catholic church distasteful.

Your church took a work of beauty and threw it out in the trash. That ALONE proves to me its not the true religion. The true religion would never do anything like that. And I don’t think the modern Catholics truly believe the host becomes the body of Jesus, because if they truly did, they would never have permitted communion in the hand!

You destroyed works of beauty…marble altar rails, pretty statues, things that the rest of us always associated with “Catholicism”. Your nuns got rid of their full habits and started looking like social workers…they went from “Sister Annunziata” to “Sister Joanie”.

Heck, if Orthodox Judaism ever did anything like what your church did, with its wholesale destruction of all that truly breaths spirituality, I would leave it tomorrow and never look back. Why do you think I have never set foot in a liberal/Reform synagogue? If I wanted to go to a synagogue that looked and felt like a church, I know where to find churches! Ditto for the modern Catholic churches…they remind me of mainline liberal Protestant churches…and if I want to go to one, I know where to find them!

The irony of all this is, before Vatican II you would have had a far better chance of converting me than you ever would now (even though the church had more open antisemitism in it then). The way the Catholic church is now holds no enticement for me whatsoever. About the only thing you did good post-V2 was get rid of the anti-Jewish sentiment (on paper, anyway.)

(Vent mode now off…sorry, this has built up in me for decades, ever since I first saw a genuine Tridentine Mass in the 70s!)
You know Hashem, you really have quite a nerve to speak about the Catholic church the way you do. You know 100%, positively, absolutely, unquivacably NOTHING about the Catholic church, the Catholic faith and even Vatican 2. You seriously are embarrassing yourself by saying ridiculous statements as there are buses begging Catholics to come back. That is absurd and untrue. Just like the wrong information you have and keep projecting against my faith.
You sound like a woman scorned, a hater of the Catholic faith.
Someone who is here to really instigate the situation. Didn’t your mother teach you if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it at all?
 
The other poster implies that the God of Israel has abandoned the people of Israel (the Jews).

To this non-Catholic, it looks far more as if He has abandoned your church. Ever since V2, it has been falling apart, what with clown masses, various other ridiculousness…not to mention that in my city, the buses and subways are loaded with really expensive advertisements, begging Catholics to come back to the Catholic church.

Sounds to me as if the Catholic flood that began after V2 has turned into a tsunami.

Therefore, before any of you try to convert non-Catholics, maybe you need to work more on bringing back the millions who have left.

As the saying goes, “Physician, heal thyself first”. And fix your church! Make it what it used to be, 100%!

Margarite, God bless you! You understanding perfectly, from BOTH sides of the fence!

I do have to say that (except for the antisemitism), I have always greatly admired the Catholic church from before Vatican II. It was a church full of beauty, stunning liturgy, breathtaking Renaissance artwork…perhaps the closest anyone could come to heaven on earth. Yes, I truly do mean that, even though I personally find the doctrines of the Catholic church distasteful.

Your church took a work of beauty and threw it out in the trash. That ALONE proves to me its not the true religion. The true religion would never do anything like that. And I don’t think the modern Catholics truly believe the host becomes the body of Jesus, because if they truly did, they would never have permitted communion in the hand!

You destroyed works of beauty…marble altar rails, pretty statues, things that the rest of us always associated with “Catholicism”. Your nuns got rid of their full habits and started looking like social workers…they went from “Sister Annunziata” to “Sister Joanie”.

Heck, if Orthodox Judaism ever did anything like what your church did, with its wholesale destruction of all that truly breaths spirituality, I would leave it tomorrow and never look back. Why do you think I have never set foot in a liberal/Reform synagogue? If I wanted to go to a synagogue that looked and felt like a church, I know where to find churches! Ditto for the modern Catholic churches…they remind me of mainline liberal Protestant churches…and if I want to go to one, I know where to find them!

The irony of all this is, before Vatican II you would have had a far better chance of converting me than you ever would now (even though the church had more open antisemitism in it then). The way the Catholic church is now holds no enticement for me whatsoever. About the only thing you did good post-V2 was get rid of the anti-Jewish sentiment (on paper, anyway.)

(Vent mode now off…sorry, this has built up in me for decades, ever since I first saw a genuine Tridentine Mass in the 70s!)
The real challenge of Vatican II is the change or renewal of hearts that in the Gospels is called “metanoia”.
It is possible to get distracted, caught up in the liturgical and institutional dimension of renewal, and lose sight of the fact that these are at the service of making the church’s mission more effective. That mission is identical to Christ’s own.
 
Hmm, good point. I didn’t even think of that!

You know, after seeing pictures of the so-called Lanciano miracle, and the bodies of Catholic saints, Orthodox monks, Buddhist lamas and Hindu priests that did not decay, I have to thank all of you.

I’ve decided that eating lunch is not on the agenda for me today, so I guess that ought to help me lose some weight! :eek:
Hashem,

Wow! A Traditonal Jew with and Agonstic- Thiest, chating along together to put down the Catholic Church.

Go on Continue Chating to gether it makes me glad to know that i am living to see this Traditional Jew , and agonstic-thiest proving our Lords words: The Gates of Hell will not prevail against it!

Ufamtobie
 
Hashem,

Wow! A Traditonal Jew with and Agonstic- Thiest, chating along together to put down the Catholic Church.

Go on Continue Chating to gether it makes me glad to know that i am living to see this Traditional Jew , and agonstic-thiest proving our Lords words: The Gates of Hell will not prevail against it!

Ufamtobie
What part of this post professes the charity that is the greatest of three?
 
Hashem,

Wow! A Traditonal Jew with and Agonstic- Thiest, chating along together to put down the Catholic Church.

Go on Continue Chating to gether it makes me glad to know that i am living to see this Traditional Jew , and agonstic-thiest proving our Lords words: The Gates of Hell will not prevail against it!

Ufamtobie
Jesus was not the messiah, he was a deceiver sent by God to test the Jewish people (see Deut. 13, where you will find him described to a tee.) If Gentiles want to believe in him that is fine, but he is not for Jews. For us, he was just a test.

As for agreeing with agnostheist, I also agree with Catholics on things too, such as abortion. Does that mean abortion is OK by your standards?
 
Now, in Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism, they believe that the Dalai Lama is reincarnated again and again, so they go on a search for his newest incarnation.

They found him as a little boy, and miraculously, when presented with artifacts that had belonged to the previous Dalai Lama as well as meaningless ones, he picked out only the ones that had belonged to the previous Dalai Lama.

They had put lots of artifacts in front of him, but this teeny 3 (?) yr old boy knew just which ones to choose.
Sooo…they travel the world until they find a kid who can pick 3 items?
 
To Agnos Theist,
Much fruit from the Catholic church church was sweet. It was a preservor of western civilization when the world was crumbling down, it has contributed to charity more than any other organization, it was a leading moral force for centuries. And the inquisition and crusades do not define the Catholic church. The crusades were launched because of Muslim atrocities and the numbers from the inquisition are greatly exaggerated. It was mailnly from The Spanish and not the Roman inquisition that most executions occured. Dont believe in the Eucharist no one is twisting your arm to believe it but it is a gift from God to those who do.
 
This is the original quote:

"Hashem,

Tell me is God still speaking to the Traditional Jew? Has there been any Miracles lately like in the Past?"

Fine, this is all fine. Honest questions.

"Or has God abandoned the Jews again?

Ufamtobie"

Ufamtobie decides to get snippy here. This was not nice, this was not provoked, there was more to this question. There was no need for one who professes the Charity of Christ to resort to this question; it was meant to provoke an emotional defensive reply.

I am sure HashemEchad knows that the Catholics don’t worship and are obsessed with the dead and blood, but, the question was asked, and HASHEMECHAD GAVE US WHAT SHE THOUGHT OF IT. THAT IS ALL. Stop trying to put words in her mouth about what we believe.

Incidentally, HashemEchad, you are female, right? I thought I saw in another post you talking about your husband.
Hi there Adstrinity,

By the way who are you to judge me that i am getting snippy?
Thou shall not judge or thou will be judged

I was not snippy I am only asking Questions. Remember this is a forum people ask questions. Seems you the one getting SNIPPY at me , Even RE-TYPING what I said, trying to start a fight hear. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! BYE

Ufamtobie
 
Jesus was not the messiah, he was a deceiver sent by God to test the Jewish people (see Deut. 13, where you will find him described to a tee.) If Gentiles want to believe in him that is fine, but he is not for Jews. For us, he was just a test.

As for agreeing with agnostheist, I also agree with Catholics on things too, such as abortion. Does that mean abortion is OK by your standards?
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. **

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;
by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.**
 
Sooo…they travel the world until they find a kid who can pick 3 items?
It was more than 3 items. BTW if you don’t like people making light of your religious peculiarities, why do the same to Buddhists? Or anyone, for that matter?
 
Jesus was not the messiah, he was a deceiver sent by God to test the Jewish people (see Deut. 13, where you will find him described to a tee.) If Gentiles want to believe in him that is fine, but he is not for Jews. For us, he was just a test.

As for agreeing with agnostheist, I also agree with Catholics on things too, such as abortion. Does that mean abortion is OK by your standards?
Jesus is the MESSIAH, YOU SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN GLORY !

Yes, you said it right a Test, WE ALL are being tested if we believe in Gods only Son we Pass the Test and if we don’t believe in the Son of God we fail the test.

Hashem, Jesus Christ wants YOU, that is why you are here, I hope you pass the test. With Jesus Graces for the both of us I pray we will chat person to person in his Kingdom, Lord Willing

On What else do you agree with Catholics?

Ufamtobie
 
Jesus is the MESSIAH, YOU SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN GLORY !

Yes, you said it right a Test, WE ALL are being tested if we believe in Gods only Son we Pass the Test and if we don’t believe in the Son of God we fail the test.

Hashem, Jesus Christ wants YOU, that is why you are here, I hope you pass the test. With Jesus Graces for the both of us I pray we will chat person to person in his Kingdom, Lord Willing

On What else do you agree with Catholics?

Ufamtobie
Jesus studied Kabbalistic teachings, this became very apparent to me when I started studying Kabbalah myself, and saw so many extreme similarities between things Jesus said, and what is said in Kabbalah. Furtehrmore, the Galilee was a hotbed of Kabbalah study in Jesus’ time.

One thing the Kabbalah teaches is how to pronounce the true Name of God. Kabbalists teach that anyone who properly pronounces the true Name can perform miracles, the most notable being the ability to walk on water.

Judaism teaches that the Kabbalah should not be studied by anyone under the age of 40, for if they do so, they will greatly misunderstand it, and if they should misuse the teachings, they will die a shameful death before the age of 40.

Jesus in the NT prayed to God, saying that he had “revealed Your Name to those you have given me”. This leads me to believe he learned the true Name and its pronunciation, and used it to walk on water and do his other “miracles”.

And if you note, he did die a shameful death, and he was 33.

In traditional Judaism, WE KNOW just who and what Jesus was. Its Gentiles who are hoodwinked. 😉
 
Hi there Adstrinity,

By the way who are you to judge me that i am getting snippy?
Thou shall not judge or thou will be judged

I was not snippy I am only asking Questions. Remember this is a forum people ask questions. Seems you the one getting SNIPPY at me , Even RE-TYPING what I said, trying to start a fight hear. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! BYE

Ufamtobie
I am a child of God. I noticed you were not ONLY asking questions. You were asking questions with an intent to provoke, or, at least that is how it came across. If it seems that I am getting snippy, then indeed, that is how you perceive my post. This is how things can get out control from what was intended, what was written to what is read. This is why one must exercise caution and respect and charity on these forums. I do not want to start a fight, I want you to see how I am right. There’s nothing to fight about that. I believe you meant the homonym, “here,” but, again, I must confess I do not know your intentions, and I believe that is your point. I only would like to add that if things are not said in charity, we are not acting as Christ instructed.
 
Jesus studied Kabbalistic teachings, this became very apparent to me when I started studying Kabbalah myself, and saw so many extreme similarities between things Jesus said, and what is said in Kabbalah. Furtehrmore, the Galilee was a hotbed of Kabbalah study in Jesus’ time.

One thing the Kabbalah teaches is how to pronounce the true Name of God. Kabbalists teach that anyone who properly pronounces the true Name can perform miracles, the most notable being the ability to walk on water.

Judaism teaches that the Kabbalah should not be studied by anyone under the age of 40, for if they do so, they will greatly misunderstand it, and if they should misuse the teachings, they will die a shameful death before the age of 40.

Jesus in the NT prayed to God, saying that he had “revealed Your Name to those you have given me”. This leads me to believe he learned the true Name and its pronunciation, and used it to walk on water and do his other “miracles”.

And if you note, he did die a shameful death, and he was 33.

In traditional Judaism, WE KNOW just who and what Jesus was. Its Gentiles who are hoodwinked. 😉
Oh please…this is so ridiculous it isn’t funny.🤷 Kaballah isn’t even a religion. Even the Jews, the real Jews don’t accept it. They reject it.
 
Jesus studied Kabbalistic teachings, this became very apparent to me when I started studying Kabbalah myself, and saw so many extreme similarities between things Jesus said, and what is said in Kabbalah. Furtehrmore, the Galilee was a hotbed of Kabbalah study in Jesus’ time.

One thing the Kabbalah teaches is how to pronounce the true Name of God. Kabbalists teach that anyone who properly pronounces the true Name can perform miracles, the most notable being the ability to walk on water.

Judaism teaches that the Kabbalah should not be studied by anyone under the age of 40, for if they do so, they will greatly misunderstand it, and if they should misuse the teachings, they will die a shameful death before the age of 40.

Jesus in the NT prayed to God, saying that he had “revealed Your Name to those you have given me”. This leads me to believe he learned the true Name and its pronunciation, and used it to walk on water and do his other “miracles”.

And if you note, he did die a shameful death, and he was 33.

In traditional Judaism, WE KNOW just who and what Jesus was. Its Gentiles who are hoodwinked. 😉
You seem to be such the expert on Jesus, it is embarrassing that you even comment the way you do. It’s almost comical in what you say in your posts. Why are you even here? Do you see me bashing Judaism? Even though the OT is not to be taken literally?
 
Good evening to all and peace to you from our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Holy One of Israel, the first born of the Dead. He is alive forever more. He is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. He is the perfect sacrifice and our mighty God, Prince of Peace. All glory and honor is His forever and ever amen.

Our Lord received this type of doubt about the Eucharist when he was giving this sacrament to us in John 6. Most left Him, abandoned Him, doubted Him. He asked His disciples if they would leave Him and Peter (The Rock and our first Pope) said: No Lord, to who would we go, You have the words of eternal life.

As for me, I echo the words of Peter. I am weak, I stumble, I fall. But I know that my Lord still is absolutely, completely and divinely perfectly present in very Eucharist of every Mass all around the world every day. That is a miracle. Everyday.

To HashemEchad, if members of my faith have offended you in their attempts to convince you, please forgive them. Many like me would be like Peter who cut off the guard’s ear in the garden arrest. We are brutish at times and we all should make better efforts at charity and less at sarcasm. Our Lord though would be willing to replace and heal you.

I am proud of my Catholic brothers in defending the Sacrament. We have a special gift from God and we get pretty defensive at times. It is our Lord and God and Tradition and Faith. It is hard not to be defensive. Let us all remember that the best apologist may not even utter a word.

Love Hope and Peace to you all
 
Now, see, this again is a very real problem for a Jew who is knowledgeable of his faith. Because we know that God would never change the Torah He gave. The Torah was given at Sinai, and is permanent and unchangeable.

Christians say Jesus came to fulfill it, but how can that be when according to your beliefs, he changed it (God forbid)?

How do you change and fulfill at the same time? Some Christians tell me that Jesus kept the Law perfectly (actually, he didn’t, but I digress.) Well, WHY would he keep it perfectly only to do away with it? See how schizophrenic this all sounds to a non-Christian?

BTW since we’re on the subject of things like this, what does everyone think of this? No one’s mentioned it yet:

cicap.org/new/articolo.php?id=101014
A few considerations:
  1. The question: what is the Law? And, why is there a Law? To what end is the Law given? Also, can the Law be fully and faithfully followed by man?
  2. How is the “circumcision of the heart” prophesied in the Torah fulfilled? What does it mean to have one’s heart circumcised?
  3. Jesus through his healings on the Sabbath shows that man was not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath made for man. Likewise, man was not created to follow the Law, but the Law was created for man.
  4. The Law was not given to Adam and Eve. It was not even given to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. It was given to Moses at a certain time for a reason.
I’ve previously read that Jesus’ emphasis on the internalization of the Law was nothing new, and that even his summary of the Law into a maxim was in keeping with Jewish tradition.

The Levitical laws are the most difficult to understand for the Christian, since these were in fact mostly done away with (even though some later Christians would use witch-condemning verses as divine backing for witch hunts).

One of my previous (Catholic) Biblical professors wrote a paper about laws that are not good, based on Ezekiel 20. I’d be interested in digging up that paper, when I go back home.
 
Jesus studied Kabbalistic teachings, this became very apparent to me when I started studying Kabbalah myself, and saw so many extreme similarities between things Jesus said, and what is said in Kabbalah. Furtehrmore, the Galilee was a hotbed of Kabbalah study in Jesus’ time.

One thing the Kabbalah teaches is how to pronounce the true Name of God. Kabbalists teach that anyone who properly pronounces the true Name can perform miracles, the most notable being the ability to walk on water.

Judaism teaches that the Kabbalah should not be studied by anyone under the age of 40, for if they do so, they will greatly misunderstand it, and if they should misuse the teachings, they will die a shameful death before the age of 40.

Jesus in the NT prayed to God, saying that he had “revealed Your Name to those you have given me”. This leads me to believe he learned the true Name and its pronunciation, and used it to walk on water and do his other “miracles”.

And if you note, he did die a shameful death, and he was 33.

In traditional Judaism, WE KNOW just who and what Jesus was. Its Gentiles who are hoodwinked. 😉
Kabbalah developed in Judaism concurrent with Christianity as well. I’ve only just started reading about Kabbalah, but I would be surprised if the Kabalah of Jesus’ time is similar to the Kabalah in its more developed form.

I see no reason for alarm for God revealing his name. This is a common Biblical motif. Since the time of Seth, men began calling on the name of the Lord. This suggests a knowledge of the name of the Lord. What is the name of the Lord? In the Psalms, God’s name is revealed as “The Lord,” and the Psalmist frequently calls for praise and glory to be given to the name of God. Later, at the time of Moses, God reveals his name as “I AM.” Interestingly, the Jewish tradition of calling on the name of God, “The Lord” (as in a* berakah* prayer) is adopted by the Christians who call on the name of the “Lord Jesus Christ.” There is no place in the New Testament which would suggest that Jesus’ miracles were accomplished by a secret knowledge and uttering of God’s [real] name. If you believe there is one miracle where this is the case, please provide me the passage reference. Belief in the power of a secretly revealed divine name, however, was a heresy of the Gnostics, who pre-existed the Chrsitians. How much the Gnostics influenced Kabalah teachings and vice versa would be an interesting subject of study.

I hope, for your sake, that you are over 40. 🙂
 
“About Whom Does Isaiah 53 Really Speak?”

messiahtruth.com/isaiah53b.html

Educate yourself a bit!
Philip and the Ethiopian
26Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” 27So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[a]eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. 29The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
30Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

31"How can I," he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
33In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.”**

34The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized?”[c] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.**
 
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