What do you do when a stranger grabs your hand during Our Father prayer?

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The difference between a liturgist and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist.
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Part of discussion strikes me as a legalistic reduction of worship to rubrics. According to this document from 2003:
"*It is true that there is no prescribed posture for the hands during the Our Father and that, so far at least, neither the Holy See nor the U.S. bishops’ conference has officially addressed it…

The act of holding hands usually emphasizes group or personal unity from the human or physical point of view and is thus more typical of the spontaneity of small groups. Hence it does not always transfer well into the context of larger gatherings where some people feel uncomfortable and a bit imposed upon when doing so.

The use of this practice during the Our Father could detract and distract from the prayer’s God-directed sense of adoration and petition, as explained in Nos. 2777-2865 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in favor of a more horizontal and merely human meaning.

For all of these reasons, no one should have any qualms about not participating in this gesture if disinclined to do so. They will be simply following the universal customs of the Church, and should not be accused of being a cause of disharmony.*"

If someone doesn’t want to hold hands, that’s fine. However, the Our Father is a corporate prayer, even in its title/opening words, in addition to the use of the first-person plural throughout. Its placement within the Liturgy of the Eucharist in close proximity the distribution of the Blessed Sacrament also underscores the corporate nature of the worship. In addition to the original Greek containing an appeal to God for our “trans-substantial” (not “daily”, from the Greek epiousios) bread, it underscores that we are consuming the body and blood of Christ together. As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11, the common sharing of the sacramental meal is critical, and the insertion of the Our Father into the anaphora from ancient times underscores it as a matter beyond individual prayer. The use of hand-holding is, in addition to reciting it in unison, an organic expression of how our culture demonstrates amity and affection. In that Christ himself redefined family around the Church (i.e., Mark 3:33-35; the common use of “brothers” throughout the New Testament), this makes total sense to me.

If someone prefers not to hold hands, that’s fine. If someone wants to take the orans posture, that’s fine. If someone wants to hold hands, that’s fine. People genuinely bringing their hearts to Jesus Christ can do so in whatever manner is not forbidden by the Magisterium, and I’ve been in charismatic parishes where raising hands up in the air and swaying is not an uncommon feature. The center of our faith is the experience we have with Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. How that happens is not, and IMHO should not, be defined according to one person or group’s approach to worship.
 
Reading this thread leaves me very sad. I hope I never end up at Mass next to someone who would rebuff a brother or sister in Christ who simply wants to take their hand while praying.

And I’m reminded of two things. The first is from John (13:35): By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

And second, from Peanuts:
 
Do those things really work? It hasn’t stopped me from catching colds.
There is no way around breathing the same air.

I am not in favor of the hand holding during the Our Father so I keep my hands together but when it is uncharitable to do so and do not deny the gesture of friendship.
 
Not debating what the Church does or doesn’t say (doesn’t seem like a matter for doctrine here…)
Those who like a less personal touch should then have no problem with video screens at Mass, emphasizing the finer points of the readings, helping lead the psalms, taking emphasis away from the personal nature of the proclaiming of the word, the personal nature of the congregation, the personal nature of Christ.
The Word became flesh. …
…and God made man in his image.
 
Reading this thread leaves me very sad. I hope I never end up at Mass next to someone who would rebuff a brother or sister in Christ who simply wants to take their hand while praying.

And I’m reminded of two things. The first is from John (13:35): By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

And second, from Peanuts:
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b2/2a/71/b22a71f8861bf04fa62963c80ca5e106.jpg
If someone doesn’t want to hold your hand, why is it a “rebuff”? Perhaps it’s a distraction for them.

Personally, I find it distracting. I like to close my eyes and pray with my fingers close to my chin.

When I used to give into peer pressure and hold hands, I would often get “hebejebes” when the other person had cold, wet palms. It was a distraction for me. If I’m distracted, how can I properly pray the Our Father?

I also would feel uncomfortable because I was taught in CCD to hold my palms together, fingers up, and right thumb over left thumb when praying. I would always feel like I was doing something wrong when holding hands. I still do. So that’s distraction # two.

If holding hands is a distraction for someone, why force them to do it. Don’t take it personal, because it has NOTHING to do with you. No one is rejecting you. We just want to do what allows us to pray without distraction so we can focus on the Our Father.

BTW - if a beautiful Catholic super model was standing next to me, I wouldn’t hold her hand either.
 
It’s a very strange dynamic. If someone grabs your hand at Mass you are evidently to assume the best – maybe they are old and lonely and have no other human contact and so on. Yet if someone objects even privately to being man-handled by a stranger at Mass in the name of a “corporate worship” no one in all of history seemed to notice was proper to the Our Father in that particular way until about five minutes ago, charitable assumptions go flying out the window – there is no willingness to believe that you are maybe just a deeply private person, a germophobe, socially anxious, sensitive to invasion of personal space on account of past traumas, etc. – you’re just a jerk and a scoundrel and don’tcha-know-yer-making-other-people-feel-bad.

“Charity” only ever seems to go one direction in the church these days.
 
There seems to be quite a personal preference thing here. I prefer the way that I was taught when I was young and in CCD (now called Faith Formation), and continue that way.

What I do find interesting… my church and my parents’ church seem opposite ends here, and are in two different Diocese. I went to their church this past weekend, and barely anyone held hands, or even held them up. They were clasped. My church, it seems a majority hold their hands up…though some (including my wife and I) hold our hands clasped. Both are very reverent, sacred, yet very traditional type of a Mass. However, I would say that the music at my parents’ church has a bit more Haugen, Haas, etc. than ours. Both play piano and organ, no rock band or anything of that sort.

Interesting to see the difference though. My wife and I will politely put our head down and hold our hands clasped (separately, not holding hands together) for the Lord’s Prayer… and luckily we haven’t had anyone tap us on the shoulder or get upset at us for doing it.
 
Not debating what the Church does or doesn’t say (doesn’t seem like a matter for doctrine here…)
Those who like a less personal touch should then have no problem with video screens at Mass, emphasizing the finer points of the readings, helping lead the psalms, taking emphasis away from the personal nature of the proclaiming of the word, the personal nature of the congregation, the personal nature of Christ.
I’m sorry, but this doesn’t make any sense…

Are you saying that because I find holding hands during Our Father detracts from my focus on prayer, that I should be in favor of things that cause further distraction? :confused:

Give me Mass the way Daily Mass is preformed on ETWN.
  • 6 Candles on the Altar
  • Crucifix on the Altar
  • Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison
  • chant
  • Latin Prayers
  • incense
  • Choir dress
  • etc.
I’m Catholic, Roman Rite. Not a Baptist from Liberty University. :rolleyes:
 
I visit the washroom before Mass, to wash my hands in preparation for receiving Our Lord. I do not wish to hold hands with people who have come to church with unwashed hands, blown their noses and handled their hankies, scratched their heads, dealt with their kids, and are generally germy.

If I then receive the Host into my hands AFTER the sign of peace, and transfer it to my mouth, I am ingesting who knows what along with it.
  1. Germs are good for your immune system
2 Just receive our Lord on your tongue. Then you don’t have to worry about your hands being dirty.
 
We aren’t always called to do big things, just small things with great love. 🙂

I understand the aversion to the hand holding / hand shaking. The first thing I do when I get in my car is put on hand sanitizer and the first thing I do when I come home is wash my hands. And that’s the case all the time, not just with going to Mass.

But I don’t think we should look down on the idea of sucking it up every once in a while and suffering through minor inconveniences with a smile for the sake of our neighbor. I bet more grace is obtained through such small sacrifices than we might think. If we cannot suffer through a minor inconvenience with love, then how will we be prepared to offer greater sacrifices?
So why then can’t all those in Church who might feel offended by someone not wanting to touch their hands be the ones to “suck it up and suffer”? 😃
 
I’m sorry, but this doesn’t make any sense…

Are you saying that because I find holding hands during Our Father detracts from my focus on prayer, that I should be in favor of things that cause further distraction? :confused:

Give me Mass the way Daily Mass is preformed on ETWN.
  • 6 Candles on the Altar
  • Crucifix on the Altar
  • Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison
  • chant
  • Latin Prayers
  • incense
  • Choir dress
  • etc.
I’m Catholic, Roman Rite. Not a Baptist from Liberty University. :rolleyes:
I’m not advocating a position. I don’t " like" to join hands at the Pater Noster, but I’m always edified having done it.

I like your list of Mass particulars. I’m looking through your list for “encounter Jesus Christ the Son of God with my Christian brothers and sisters”.
(I think it’s significant that Jesus is a real person. of divine personhood and nature, also with a human nature…just like the other folk at Mass. We have bodies just like Christ, sometimes we touch each other.)

What do you think of the reality that Jesus took on flesh and blood and touched people?
 
I’m not advocating a position. I don’t " like" to join hands at the Pater Noster, but I’m always edified having done it.

I like your list of Mass particulars. I’m looking through your list for “encounter Jesus Christ the Son of God with my Christian brothers and sisters”.
(I think it’s significant that Jesus is a real person. of divine personhood and nature, also with a human nature…just like the other folk at Mass. We have bodies just like Christ, sometimes we touch each other.)

What do you think of the reality that Jesus took on flesh and blood and touched people?
I’m not sure I’m following you. Christ took on the flesh and touched people. Priests touch my shoulder after Mass or during a blessing all the time. People hug and kiss each other after Mass tons. But’s thats after mass.

We need to be non-distracting when trying to pray. Same thing when people are still giving the Kiss of Peace when the priest starts the Lamb of God. We should be done and focused on praying, not still saying hi to people across the pews when prayer begins.

Prayer (personal or communal) is about connecting with God. It’s not a like a bunch of hippies sitting around a camp fire, like some of the children of the 60s want Church to be.

If it’s ok to be distracted during prayer, then why do we turn our cell phones off? Why not let them ring?

To me, the only distraction people should learn to deal with is a crying baby/child.

God Bless 🙂
 
So why then can’t all those in Church who might feel offended by someone not wanting to touch their hands be the ones to “suck it up and suffer”? 😃
Probably because this thread started out with a complaint about people who want to hold hands. Had the original message been along the lines of “I don’t know what’s wrong with that guy at church – I tried to hold his hand and he refused,” then the OP would have been reminded that there’s no requirement to hold hands, some people don’t like it, some people are germophobes, etc.

The bottom line – no matter which side you’re on – is that it’s not MY personal Mass where I get everything exactly the way I want it. I have to accommodate – hopefully in a loving way – everyone from the squirmy kid to the adult who wants to hold hands.
 
I’m not sure I’m following you. Christ took on the flesh and touched people. Priests touch my shoulder after Mass or during a blessing all the time. People hug and kiss each other after Mass tons. But’s thats after mass.

We need to be non-distracting when trying to pray. Same thing when people are still giving the Kiss of Peace when the priest starts the Lamb of God. We should be done and focused on praying, not still saying hi to people across the pews when prayer begins.

Prayer (personal or communal) is about connecting with God. It’s not a like a bunch of hippies sitting around a camp fire, like some of the children of the 60s want Church to be.

If it’s ok to be distracted during prayer, then why do we turn our cell phones off? Why not let them ring?

To me, the only distraction people should learn to deal with is a crying baby/child.

God Bless 🙂
So what I hear you saying is that the Mass is almost uniquely off limits for the physicality that permeates Catholicism.
Holy orders is passed by laying of hands.
Baptism using water
Extreme Unction- oils and touching
Confirmation- more of it
Confession- with a priest in persona Christi
The Eucharist of course
Marriage is a very physical thing.
We are asked to help the sick, suffering, etc…none of which can really be done from a distance.
We point to these realities every day, where the physical is foundational to our worship and our daily lives, and we point to them as defining the Catholic faith. Even to the point of fighting for the sanctity of marriage…“a physical body has meaning.” Yet joining hands to pray at one point in the Mass can not be part of that?

I’m not trying to say joining hands at the Pater Noster is one of the sacraments,
but, you can see how a case could be made that the appropriate joining of hands to pray at Mass is very traditionally Catholic.
 
Anyone who has contempt for those who prefer to hold hands or prefer not to lacks the proper disposition for Mass. Some of these comments exhibit that contempt.
 
To me, the only distraction people should learn to deal with is a crying baby/child.

God Bless 🙂
Really? My church is on a busy city corner. We have noisy traffic going by constantly and frequent sirens can be heard. They are distracting, but what can you do? Pray anyway. In a nearby parish, they shush the children playing on the playground while Mass is going on. I can’t help but wonder what they’d think of the constant level of noise that we deal with. We mostly tune out the traffic, and the sirens just give us something else to pray about.

I have a friend with Restless Leg Syndrome. She is constantly up and down, walking outside for a few minutes, then coming back in during Divine Liturgy. It is distracting. My mom cannot stand for more than a few minutes. She frequently sits while others are standing. This can be distracting. We have a lovely gentleman in our parish who is developmentally delayed. He frequently greets people at highly inappropriate times during the Divine Liturgy, while we are trying to pray. Occasionally, while I still have Holy Communion in my mouth. Very distracting, I tell you. As for myself, I have a chronic (but non-contagious) cough. If it gets too bad, I’ll leave for a few minutes, but often I (and others) just tolerate it. My coming and going constantly could be very distracting. Some people would be distracted by a handsome man or beautiful woman sitting next to them. Should none of us in this list be allowed to attend Mass because of potential (or actual) distraction to others.?

Sometimes, we need to just get over ourselves and have a great deal of tolerance for our fellow man- whether it is a person refusing to hold our hand, a person insisting upon holding our hand, or something else entirely. On the other hand, we need to be respectful of others. That’s why we turn off our cell phones, try to dress modestly, keep a reasonable level of quiet inside the church, leave if our baby is crying uncontrollably. It really isn’t just about us. When we get to heaven, we wont’ have to deal with such distractions. Until then, they can be a tool for us to grow in holiness and virtue.
 
So what I hear you saying is that the Mass is almost uniquely off limits for the physicality that permeates Catholicism.
Holy orders is passed by laying of hands.
Baptism using water
Extreme Unction- oils and touching
Confirmation- more of it
Confession- with a priest in persona Christi
The Eucharist of course
Marriage is a very physical thing.
We are asked to help the sick, suffering, etc…none of which can really be done from a distance.
We point to these realities every day, where the physical is foundational to our worship and our daily lives, and we point to them as defining the Catholic faith. Even to the point of fighting for the sanctity of marriage…“a physical body has meaning.” Yet joining hands to pray at one point in the Mass can not be part of that?

I’m not trying to say joining hands at the Pater Noster is one of the sacraments,
but, you can see how a case could be made that the appropriate joining of hands to pray at Mass is very traditionally Catholic.
Holding hands by the laity at Mass is NOT traditionally Catholic. It was introduced into the Mass by laity in Holland in the 1970’s and quickly picked up by American tourists. From there it spread to many English speaking countries.

Unfortunately it has become looked on by many laity as a liturgical gesture and it is not. Some people state that, since the rubrics and the GIRM do not forbid it, it is OK. But that is not the case. The purpose of the rubrics and the GIRM is to instruct on what is to be done at Mass - nowhere does it mention anything that is not to be done. Therefore, if it does not say we are to do it, or that it may be done, then we should not do it.

It has become very divisive, as can be seen by all the comments posted here. At one time I did it - really only because everyone else started doing it. When I researched it and realized that we should not do it, I stopped. Wow! The dirty looks I got when I joined my hands together and bent my head in prayer. My hand was tugged and grabbed, etc. Now most people do not do that - there are quite a lot of people who no longer hold hands, but do hold their hands in an orans position. Whenever someone tried to hold my hand now, I smile and say politely “I do not hold hands.” Sometimes I still get a reluctance to offering my the sign of peace - seem as some people think if I won’t hold their hand at the Our Father I wouldn’t want to offer them a sign of peace either. You can’t win. That is why I really wish bishops would put a stop to it once and for all.
 
Holding hands by the laity at Mass is NOT traditionally Catholic. It was introduced into the Mass by laity in Holland in the 1970’s and quickly picked up by American tourists. From there it spread to many English speaking countries.
Why can it not be considered traditional, given the physical-divine interaction that Catholicism celebrates since the incarnation of Christ? God became flesh, so he could touch people, so he could give his flesh for others.
Christ is not a 70’s new age gnostic spirit-ghost dude, he is a person. We are not spirit dudes disconnected from one another either. Those are very traditional concepts. The passing of a few decades does not determine what is traditional or not traditional.
 
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