What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

[jmcrae]

As for me, the biggest obstacles to ‘taking the swim’ have been or were (in no particular order)…

Past:

• Misunderstanding of veneration of Mary
• Asking intercession of saints
• Infant baptism
• Confession to priest

Present:

• Communion actually consisting of the literal body and blood of Christ, as compared to a act done in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice and, in a sense, a replacement for passover

Jesus is the Passover Lamb. The Jews were required to actually eat the meat of the Passover Lamb, and we, too, are required to eat and drink of the actual flesh and blood of our own Paschal Lamb, which is Jesus.

Jesus makes this possible for us in a mysterious way, by means of in some way coming to us under the appearance (but not in the substance) of the bread and wine that are offered at Mass.

• Chastity vow of clergy - I’m getting married on Sunday and I’ve been given the distinct calling to marry and the distinct calling to involve myself in ministry and seemingly go through seminary

I assume you are referring to celibacy. We are all required to be chaste (that is, to make the right use of our sexuality, depending on our state in life, and to guard our minds and hearts from lust.)

In addition to the Diaconate, which is open to married men, there are also a variety of paid lay ministries that don’t pay any worse than what Protestants pay their ministers, typically.

 

[qui_est_ce]

• Communion actually consisting of the literal body and blood of Christ, as compared to a act done in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice and, in a sense, a replacement for passover
• Some reservations about the amount of emphasis placed on asking Mary’s intercession though, since it is not a required emphasis (correct me if I am wrong), it is not a pressing concern
• Chastity vow of clergy - I’m getting married on Sunday and I’ve been given the distinct calling to marry and the distinct calling to involve myself in ministry and seemingly go through seminary

Two things would have to happen for me to join the central Church: Someone would have to educate me on why the Church believes the bread and wine literally become his body and blood and I would have to find a way to pursue both of my callings (which I presume would be no difficult task; God’s will does not contradict).

Thanks for your honesty.

I’ll let others answer most of your present obstacles. As for marriage of the clergy, Permanent Deacons may marry. Also, we do have married priests who converted from Protestant. (one married with children in neighboring parish)!

As for Mary, listen to Fr Corapi’s talk “Your mama wears combat boots!”

freerepublic.com/focus/fr/601259/posts

catholic-tube.com/father-corapis-conversion-story

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks for your honesty.

I’ll let others answer most of your present obstacles. As for marriage of the clergy, Permanent Deacons may marry.

I realize I’m nitpicking here, but no. Married men may become Permanent Deacons, but they have to be married while they are still in the lay state, and then become Deacons afterwards. If a man becomes a Deacon while he is still single, then he must remain in the single state for as long as he remains a Deacon. Also, a married Deacon may not re-marry after becoming a Deacon, if his wife dies, or if she leaves him and he obtains a Declaration of Nullity. (In that case, however, he can go on to the priesthood.)

Also, we do have married priests who converted from Protestant. (one married with children in neighboring parish)!

This is due to a Pastoral Provision for a select few Anglicans and Lutherans who were in the priesthood when they were Anglican or Lutheran. It isn’t open to just any Protestant pastor who converts. They also have to go through Catholic seminary, and the whole process of becoming a Catholic priest, since we don’t actually recognize the Holy Orders of Lutherans or Anglicans - but because they were thinking of themselves as priests at the time when they were Protestant, we do allow them to become Catholic priests, under particular circumstances. (I don’t know the details, but I do know that it’s not open to everyone, and not even to every Lutheran or every Anglican who has in the past been a priest.)

 

[qui_est_ce]

In addition to the Diaconate, which is open to married men, there are also a variety of paid lay ministries that don’t pay any worse than what Protestants pay their ministers, typically.

Just ask Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, or Jeff Cavins!

 

[Scardinoz]

Thanks for your honesty.

Thank you for your gratitude! But, seriously, if we’re not honest here then we’re wasting our time and deceiving ourselves.

I’ll let others answer most of your present obstacles. As for marriage of the clergy, Permanent Deacons may marry. Also, we do have married priests who converted from Protestant. (one married with children in neighboring parish)!

I’ve heard of that in a few different places and some have speculated that it is the Church giving the concept of married clergy a ‘trial run’. I’m not so sure but it is something I would do if God directed me that way.

If I may add something, one of the first things that drew me to the Church was respect for my grandfather as a member of the Knights of Columbus.

 

[qui_est_ce]

But, seriously, if we’re not honest here then we’re wasting our time and deceiving ourselves.

So true. I have learned a lot on these forums. The dishonest posters are usually pretty easy to spot. They really turn me off.

I’ve heard of that in a few different places and some have speculated that it is the Church giving the concept of married clergy a ‘trial run’.

I never heard that.

I’m not so sure but it is something I would do if God directed me that way.

Have you ever been to mass?

If I may add something, one of the first things that drew me to the Church was respect for my grandfather as a member of the Knights of Columbus.

See what I mean about silent witness?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I hope Jon Hus comes back to explain his interpretation of that verse.

thanks guys for taking up the task… it is funny how they can come with their enterpretations of Scriptures but if Catholics comments in a passage they ask where is that written in the Bible? that is how we know who is being deceived.
for example if we quote Jesus saying this is my Body take and eateth. they reject this being literally, yet if we present them if some other passage and we elaborate on it, they will reject because the words are not directly written. how deceitfull of them.

 

[Brother2]

Plenty of Catholics in here and that is fine as it is a Roman Catholic Forum.

However, why Priest who come from the Anglican communion can be married why not the ‘home grown’ Priests?? Ok I know you cannot ask them to give up their wives! But Paul says it is better not to marry if you can avoid the ‘burn’…would have saved a lot of ‘child abuse’ if those who could not go without the ‘burn’ had been allowed to Marry!!

Not taking a pot shot either! But it makes sense that if those priests had been married it would at least have reduced the crime?

The gospel and Word of God is the Living Bread and the Water of Life, once taken you will never thirst again, obviously figurative language, well the same with with the Body and Blood of Lord Jesus Christ…I still cannot agree with the lighted box where the Body and Blood of Christ lives…quite blasphemous actually. No offence meant by the way.

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Plenty of Catholics in here and that is fine as it is a Roman Catholic Forum.

However, why Priest who come from the Anglican communion can be married why not the ‘home grown’ Priests?? Ok I know you cannot ask them to give up their wives! But Paul says it is better not to marry if you can avoid the ‘burn’…would have saved a lot of ‘child abuse’ if those who could not go without the ‘burn’ had been allowed to Marry!!

Not taking a pot shot either! But it makes sense that if those priests had been married it would at least have reduced the crime?

The gospel and Word of God is the Living Bread and the Water of Life, once taken you will never thirst again, obviously figurative language, well the same with with the Body and Blood of Lord Jesus Christ…I still cannot agree with the lighted box where the Body and Blood of Christ lives…quite blasphemous actually. No offence meant by the way.

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

really. do you have any excuse for other religions clergy who abuse and kill children? how about those who are married and kill their wives and kids. or the wife who kill their husbands?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Plenty of Catholics in here and that is fine as it is a Roman Catholic Forum.

However, why Priest who come from the Anglican communion can be married why not the ‘home grown’ Priests?? Ok I know you cannot ask them to give up their wives! But Paul says it is better not to marry if you can avoid the ‘burn’…would have saved a lot of ‘child abuse’ if those who could not go without the ‘burn’ had been allowed to Marry!!

Not taking a pot shot either! But it makes sense that if those priests had been married it would at least have reduced the crime?

The gospel and Word of God is the Living Bread and the Water of Life, once taken you will never thirst again, obviously figurative language, well the same with with the Body and Blood of Lord Jesus Christ…I still cannot agree with the lighted box where the Body and Blood of Christ lives…quite blasphemous actually. No offence meant by the way.

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

geeee! thanks for correcting St Paul and the Church on this one…

 

[Scardinoz]

Have you ever been to mass?

Occasionally. I would probably still visit other churches - like St. Anthony of Padua here in Spring, TX - if i weren’t for the fact that the pastor at my church doesn’t let me off easy and gives me a hard time if he doesn’t see me any given Sunday. He even asks my friends about me. He told me he wants more people with my heart and mind in the church.

That said, I’ve gone to mass withmy grandparents and I took my now-fiance (wife in 3 days) to St. Anthony’s for Easter. I’ve taken communion a few times before I knew I wasn’t supposed to.

 

[Hesychios]

I’ve heard of that in a few different places and some have speculated that it is the Church giving the concept of married clergy a ‘trial run’. I’m not so sure but it is something I would do if God directed me that way.

The church as an institution does not have to give married priests a trial run because there have always been married priests in the Eastern rites, although for a long time the dominant Western church (Latin/Roman) did try to stop it (they succeeded in India, and temporarily in North America). Since the second Vatican Council that is no longer a worry.

So the Catholic church does routinely ordain married men at present. One would have to be a member of an Eastern church, like the Ruthenians or Melkites. I have sometimes advised new converts to insist on being enrolled in an Eastern church, even though they may only have a Latin parish nearby. It can be done but there will be some resistance. You have to enlist the Latin priest as an advisor and sympathetic friend and he will make it happen or tell you what you need to do.

Perhaps the idea of a “trial run” has more to do with seeing if the laity in the Latin church have accepted it. So far the results are quite positive for this limited test, but in a few dioceses the married priests are somewhat hidden in that they are given assignments to work in the Chancery and not a parish.

f I may add something, one of the first things that drew me to the Church was respect for my grandfather as a member of the Knights of Columbus.

That’s pretty nice

 

[qui_est_ce]

So the Catholic church does routinely ordain married men at present. One would have to be a member of an Eastern church, like the Ruthenians or Melkites. I have sometimes advised new converts to insist on being enrolled in an Eastern church, even though they may only have a Latin parish nearby. It can be done but there will be some resistance. You have to enlist the Latin priest as an advisor and sympathetic friend and he will make it happen or tell you what you need to do.

Isn’t it true, that like Latin Rite Permanent Deaconate, you can’t marry once you’ve been ordained, even if your wife dies?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Occasionally. I would probably still visit other churches - like St. Anthony of Padua here in Spring, TX - if i weren’t for the fact that the pastor at my church doesn’t let me off easy and gives me a hard time if he doesn’t see me any given Sunday. He even asks my friends about me. He told me he wants more people with my heart and mind in the church.

It’s nice the pastor takes such a personal interest in his flock. To which denomination do you belong?

That said, I’ve gone to mass withmy grandparents and I took my now-fiance (wife in 3 days) to St. Anthony’s for Easter. I’ve taken communion a few times before I knew I wasn’t supposed to.

Well, St. Anthony is my favorite saint. Congratulations on your marriage to be. I hope you both share the love of the Lord. I can tell you marriage is hell when married to lukewarm believer. I wish you a lifetime of joy (true joy). God bless you!

 

[Scardinoz]

It’s nice the pastor takes such a personal interest in his flock. To which denomination do you belong?

He is a wonderful pastor and really does have a heart for ‘his flock’. So many churches I’ve attended - many ‘Catholic’ churches included - have been headed by a pastor/priest that you couldn’t talk to long enough to get the time of day. This one had a brief conversation with me and asked when he could meet me for coffe, asked me to volunteer my time, asked me to attend classes, and invest myself in the church. Perhaps I’ve spent too much time hopping from church to church and God wants me to plant my feet a bit.

Would ‘Nondenominational’ surprise you at all? It’s the only one I could attend and all the while hold more Catholic beliefs than Protestant.

Well, St. Anthony is my favorite saint. Congratulations on your marriage to be. I hope you both share the love of the Lord. I can tell you marriage is hell when married to lukewarm believer. I wish you a lifetime of joy (true joy). God bless you!

One of my favorite saints, as well. The patron saint of Poggioreale, the city in Sicily my family hails from. My bride-to-be is as intent on passionately pursuing God as I am.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Would ‘Nondenominational’ surprise you at all? It’s the only one I could attend and all the while hold more Catholic beliefs than Protestant.

Yes. I guessed Lutheran, not sure which one, though.

 

[qui_est_ce]

One of my favorite saints, as well. The patron saint of Poggioreale, the city in Sicily my family hails from. My bride-to-be is as intent on passionately pursuing God as I am.

Since you’re Italian - DON’T EVER YELL AT YOUR WIFE!!

(Unless she is Italien and gets the whole yelling is talking)

 

[Scardinoz]

I checked out Lutheran and Episcopalian. Not my bag of tea. I decided that if I were going to swim I’d swim until I hit Rome.

Since you’re Italian - DON’T EVER YELL AT YOUR WIFE!!

I don’t appreciate the ‘abusive Italian’ stereotype. Are all Catholics that prejudiced?

I jest.

 

[Disciple96]

I checked out Lutheran and Episcopalian. Not my bag of tea. I decided that if I were going to swim I’d swim until I hit Rome.

I don’t appreciate the ‘abusive Italian’ stereotype. Are all Catholics that prejudiced?

I jest.

Heehee. I almost didn’t see that last line. It woulda been even funnier if you’d put the other line all in caps and made the font bigger. Of course, it was pretty funny as it was.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t appreciate the ‘abusive Italian’ stereotype. Are all Catholics that prejudiced?

I jest.

Sorry, that was bigoted.

BUT IT WAS MY REAL LIFE ITALIAN IN-LAWS, PLUS ALL THE ITALIANS “ON THE HILL” IN ST LOUIS!!!

THE HILL

My sound card is shot

God bless you and your new wife-to-be on Saturday.