What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

[Disciple96]

hi disciple96

Another point you made … it good to read the bible.

absolutely

but here lies another difference.
when i was at the funeral mass the other day, i looked around the church and could not find 1 bible.

our church has a supply of bibles in every pew.

I was glad to hear that the family asked the priest to mention that a bible was located in Bob’s car
i am curious, how often does a priest mention the word “bible” while saying a mass??

on a scale of 1 - 10 … 10 being the highest

how high do you rank to bible as a important “tool” to use for your spiritual growth?

thank you and God bless

Howdy, mpjw2

Well, I don’t exactly consider the Holy Bible to be a tool. I consider it to be the inspired Word of God and I read it just about every day. I love my Bible and have been studying it for years and I love it more and more.

I also hear the Word of God proclaimed at each and every Mass. The Bible is right there in the Missals or Missalettes that you’ll see in every pew. Many Catholics have their own Missals that they use at home and many of them bring theirs with them to Mass. The Mass is filled with readings from the Bible. We hear a large chunk of the Bible throughout the year at our Sunday and Daily Masses. We also hear it preached on Sunday and at Daily Masses. We also have the Divine Office (daily prayers) which is filled with more Bible reading. And we pray the Psalms in Masses and in the Divine Office.

So for anyone to say they can’t find the Bible in the Catholic Church, I have to say that they aren’t looking in the right place. Or listening very closely either. Now I’ll assume that you are speaking from a place of good will because I think I can hear that in your words. So might I suggest that you open up one of those Missals or Missalettes and read it for a while? I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at just how filled it is with the Bible.

It is true that Bible study, as such, has become more commonplace among the laity of the Catholic Church in the last few decades. But it is not true that the laity has not been taught the Bible. If they have failed to learn about it, it is because they have failed to listen and pay attention. But it’s right there, each and every day. Some priests are better at preaching from it than others, true. But there is a ton of material out there to help us study. I know; I have been exploring this for years now and I am only too happy to share what I’ve found with anyone who wants to know.

I’m going to go ahead and submit this and respond further to your reply in a few moments. I need more coffee first; it’s freezing in this coffee shop. Brrrrrr!

 

[Disciple96]

hi disciple96

i am glad you cited 1Cor 3:13 I agree with you 100 % that the fire is not experienced in this life.

the obstacle in our beliefs relate to the verses surrounding this verse pertaining to our works building on God’s foundation,

the fire is God’s refining fire, and in heaven we will be rewarded for all our works which built on His foundation.

any work we done that did not build on His foundation, will not be rewarded

for example, do you believe one would be rewarded by God because

he spent his life collecting baseball cards

or

he spent his life sharing God’s love and Jesus to those who may not know him.

this is why i believe there is no purgatory.

the split second after we die in this life we will be awaken to our eternal destination…

hell, with no hope of escaping

or

heaven and being rewarded for all the works we did to build on God’s foundation

Hi, again, mpjw2

I really think we’re almost on the same page about this. But I am going to suggest that you read what I said again. And again. And maybe again. Or maybe it would be better to read more about this in the Bible itself or in some book that explains Catholic teaching much better than I can.

I do believe what the Bible says. I do believe that we will go to our reward after we die and that reward will either be Heaven or Hell. Purgatory is simply a cleansing before we enter into God’s presence. I see it as an example of His stupendous Mercy. We may have lived pretty good lives but we still may die with some attachment, some self-love, having not completely died to self as Christ constantly asks us to. This would present an obstacle to our coming fully into God’s presence in Heaven. So God offers us this way to come closer to Him. We did not respond to His grace as fully and as generously as we could have in this life, so He burns away the last impurities in our souls and then embraces us with open and loving arms.

To come into God’s presence with any impurity remaining would be instant death.

I find this to be a wonderful and beautiful teaching. I find that it fits what the New Testament says in a way that makes perfect sense. I have to tell you that Christianity began making a whole lot of sense to me after I started studying Catholicism. I had tried for many years to understand it without the Church, but I didn’t get much of anywhere until I started listening to her.

Oh, here’s something I just found. Remember when Jesus “went and preached to the spirits in prison” (1 Pet. 3:19)? Well, to what does “prison” refer? Not to Heaven. Jesus doesn’t need to preach to souls in Heaven. It would be rather like preaching to the choir, if you know what I mean. Not to Hell. The souls in Hell are already judged and have been sent there. There is no getting out of there, so there would be no need to preach to them either. So to what does the term “prison” refer?

Prison. Holding place. A stop over. A place of purifying and cleansing, though we have lost much of this idea in our own prisons. But think on this: what is another word for “prison”?

Penitentiary.

As in…

A place for doing…

Penance.

Food for thought, is it not?

 

[Erchomai_Kyrios]

Jesus Christ is Lord!!! One God, One Faith, One Church!! May the Spirit be with you!! bobmck

Amen brother Bob, and also with you my friend.
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto, Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen
Antiphon Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo, et mundabor: lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.
Lord sprinkle us all, cleanse us and wash us that Your church may be a pure a spotless bride that brings You honor always, now and forever. Amen

 

[jmcrae]

My understanding is that the Catholic Church first promulgated the doctrine of purgatory to the Catholic faithful via the Council of Florence.

The doctrine of Purgatory is alluded to rather explicitly in the Book of Maccabees, is it not?

I believe other communions introduce their discovered or developed doctrines in similar ways – with the exception of the Orthodox Church, which does not embrace new doctrines.

The Orthodox certainly believe in Purgatory - it is Hell that they don’t believe in - what they do is, they just call Purgatory, Hell, since what they believe is that after a period of punishment in “Hell”, everyone is admitted into Heaven. (Or at least, this is my understanding of their doctrine on Last Things.)

In Catholic doctrine, Hell is a permanent state, whereas Purgatory is temporary.

 

[kenis]

loving pleasure more than God.

 

[mpjw2]

howdy disciple96 and roman catholic…

thank you both for your responses. i am aware of scripture in the missalettes.

i believe that you … all catholics… and i are headed towrds the same destination, heaven, but our beliefs are slightly different on how to get there.

i do believe you and i believe that Jesus loves us all so much that He would die on the cross so our sins can be forgiven to make it possible for us to inherit the riches of God’s kingdom.

see you in paradise

im going on a 10 day vacation

talk to you when i get back

God’s peace be with you always
great talking with you

 

[SSTeacher]

loving pleasure more than God.

Hi kenis,

I don’t understand. Would you care to enlarge and explain?

Cordially,
Mick

 

[kenis]

Well I think a lot of non-catholics use birth control and do not see the evil in it. I also think its a reason a lot of catholics leave the church.

 

[SSTeacher]

Well I think a lot of non-catholics use birth control and do not see the evil in it. I also think its a reason a lot of catholics leave the church.

Thanks for enlarging. I see now what you had in mind.

Isn’t it the case that there are also quite a number of Catholics that use artificial methods of birth control because they do not see any evil in it and so they remain members of the Catholic Church?

Thoughtfully,
Mick

 

[Bill_Pick]

All Protestant denominations considered artificial contraception a sin up until the Anglican Lambeth Conference of 1930. At that conference, the Anglican Communion decided that artificial contraception was no longer a sin and the rest of mainstream Protestantism followed suit.

 

[Brother2]

hi disciple96

i am glad you cited 1Cor 3:13 I agree with you 100 % that the fire is not experienced in this life.

the obstacle in our beliefs relate to the verses surrounding this verse pertaining to our works building on God’s foundation,

the fire is God’s refining fire, and in heaven we will be rewarded for all our works which built on His foundation.

any work we done that did not build on His foundation, will not be rewarded

for example, do you believe one would be rewarded by God because

he spent his life collecting baseball cards

or

he spent his life sharing God’s love and Jesus to those who may not know him.

this is why i believe there is no purgatory.

the split second after we die in this life we will be awaken to our eternal destination…

hell, with no hope of escaping

or

heaven and being rewarded for all the works we did to build on God’s foundation

Another point you made … it good to read the bible.

absolutely

but here lies another difference.
when i was at the funeral mass the other day, i looked around the church and could not find 1 bible.

our church has a supply of bibles in every pew.

I was glad to hear that the family asked the priest to mention that a bible was located in Bob’s car
i am curious, how often does a priest mention the word “bible” while saying a mass??

on a scale of 1 - 10 … 10 being the highest

how high do you rank to bible as a important “tool” to use for your spiritual growth?

thank you and God bless

AMEN BROTHER!! You speak the Truth as it is in the Bible. The Bible does not contradict itself, therefore one has to find out what the Whole of Scripture says on any particular subject and when one puts it all together one has Truth as it is in Christ.
A verse I remember says,…there are those who wrest the Scripture to their own destruction… One cannot take 2 or 3 verses ‘out of context’ but take the whole passage and the context of the whole Bible!!

Lucifer the fallen archangel, Satan the father of lies, the Devil the arch deceiver, knows the Bible better that we do so there is no need to wonder where all the different interpretations come from…though please note I am not saying that anyone is of the devil!!! Just that that is where the weeds come from amongst the wheat…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[SSTeacher]

All Protestant denominations considered artificial contraception a sin up until the Anglican Lambeth Conference of 1930. At that conference, the Anglican Communion decided that artificial contraception was no longer a sin and the rest of mainstream Protestantism followed suit.

But isn’t it the case that there are also quite a number of Catholics that use artificial methods of birth control because they do not see any evil in it and so they remain members of the Catholic Church?

Steadily,
Mick

 

[Bill_Pick]

cant answer that question for you I do not ask people that kind of question I my self have never 4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5 “Unless a man be born again”… By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. 7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. 8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered, and said to him: How can these things be done? 10 Jesus answered, and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Amen, amen I say to thee, that we speak what we know, and we testify what we have seen, and you receive not our testimony. 12 If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not; how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.

16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. 20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.

18 “Is not judged”… He that believeth, viz., by a faith working through charity, is not judged, that is, is not condemned; but the obstinate unbeliever is judged, that is, condemned already, by retrenching himself from the society of Christ and his church.

19 “The judgment”… That is, the cause of his comdemnation.

21 But he that doth truth, cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, because they are done in God. 22 After these things Jesus and his disciples came into the land of Judea: and there he abode with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Ennon near Salim; because there was much water there; and they came and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I,m very sorry but I can not answer your question,thats some thing I do not ask , If you are asking me the answer is NO never…but for my friesnds its private and I have never ask the question, do you think it will make a good topic for Sunday after Church.may be a little poll .one for yes and two for a no…LOL
BTW most Cathloic I know have 3 or 4 kids so it may be a good question to ask.

 

[SSTeacher]

I,m very sorry but I can not answer your question,thats some thing I do not ask , If you are asking me the answer is NO never…but for my friesnds its private and I have never ask the question, do you think it will make a good topic for Sunday after Church.may be a little poll .one for yes and two for a no…LOL
BTW most Cathloic I know have 3 or 4 kids so it may be a good question to ask.

God bless you.

Peace,
Mick

 

[Roy5]

CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT UNITY

There is an amazing amount of Catholic-Protestant unity already - spiritually speaking. We share the same Christ and the same Bible, both central to Christianity. My experience that that millions of Catholics like millions of Protestants have an open-minded religion. They continue to worship in their particular churches, but they think individually - that is, they believe what they can and set aside what they find unbelievable. Their concern isn't primarily in theology but in living lives that seek to follow the teachings of Christ. We all may fail now and then, but we are united in our desire to love God and one another - the criteria Jesus gave us to inherit eternal life. (See parable of the Good Samaritan and the question leading up to it.)

  It's important for us to understand that both Catholics and Protestants (I don't know about Orthodox) are essentially divided between the 'true believers' who insist upon conformity and those who identify with their faiths but are friendly toward other faiths. "You go to your church and I'll go to mine, and let's walk along together." Those were the opening words of a hymn that introduced the old radio program of Seth Parker many years ago - I remember Grandma singing it.

  Protestants differ among themselves to some degree, though mainline Protestants are difficult to distinguish from one another. I have been active in Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational churches in different communities, and the differences are hardly distinguishable. If Presbyterians still believe in predestination I never heard it mentioned. They serve communion a bit differently perhaps - minor - and Methodists are likely to say 'trespasses' while those of Calvinist heritage are apt to say 'debts'. But I feel very comfortable in those denominations and probably would in others as well. My paternal family had been Catholic and became Baptist years ago. Baptists are fine people, too, but some of their churches (not all) require a theological conformity that I cannot accept. Let's face it: I am a 'liberal' Protestant in that I appreciate people who study the scriptures and may come up with different interpretations. Such diversity doesn't trouble me at all as long as my views are respected, too. 

 The biggest obstacle is authoritarianism, the teaching that one church and one church only teaches the full truth. Or that there is only one way to interpret scripture. That makes religion simpler, perhaps, just accept whatever one's church teaches. Sorry, but I can't do that. Some people will accuse me of pride or whatever, but I suspect that God appreciates my honesty. Actually, I profess ignorance in many areas because the marvels and miracles and majesty of God is beyond my mortal understanding. I love the old hymn that includes the world: "Farther along we'll know all about it, farther along we'll understand why...."

Then there are many other things that make union with Catholicism difficult, everything from the Pope, veneration of Mary and the saints, transubstantiation, and comfession to a priest to such lifestyle matters as celibacy of the clergy, forbidding artificial birth control, and divorce (except for 'church-endorsed' divorce called annulment.

 But I also have great difficulty with some forms of evangelical Protestantism. I love the scriptures, but there are many things in them that I simply cannot accept. Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark, Tower of Babel, etc. But also how Jehovah was said to command Joshua to murder all the inhabitants of such cities as Jericho and Ai, how Saul was told he had to kill every Amalekite, etc. I worship a God of love and not a god who goes around ordering such atrocities. 

  We could go on, but that's enough for now as urgent house chores await me. May God bless Catholics, Protestants and sincere followers of every faith that seeks to promote love. And may religion serve as a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[kenis]

According to the catholic church they are in mortal sin and therefore should not present themselves for holy communion. The church is clear on this teaching. The church is not a democracy. The church is the bride of Christ, the two are one. We have a great gift in the sacrament of reconciliation, it needs to be used. Therefore I say in this case that those who think contraception is ok and are aware of the teaching against it, eat and drink judgement upon themselves. God resists the proud. I love the Lord with all my heart, mind and soul. To gain your life you must lose it. My foolish selfish pleasures are nothing when I think about eternal life in heaven with Him. No pain, no gain.

 

[Bill_Pick]

CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT UNITY

There is an amazing amount of Catholic-Protestant unity already - spiritually speaking. We share the same Christ and the same Bible, both central to Christianity. My experience that that millions of Catholics like millions of Protestants have an open-minded religion. They continue to worship in their particular churches, but they think individually - that is, they believe what they can and set aside what they find unbelievable. Their concern isn't primarily in theology but in living lives that seek to follow the teachings of Christ. We all may fail now and then, but we are united in our desire to love God and one another - the criteria Jesus gave us to inherit eternal life. (See parable of the Good Samaritan and the question leading up to it.)

  It's important for us to understand that both Catholics and Protestants (I don't know about Orthodox) are essentially divided between the 'true believers' who insist upon conformity and those who identify with their faiths but are friendly toward other faiths. "You go to your church and I'll go to mine, and let's walk along together." Those were the opening words of a hymn that introduced the old radio program of Seth Parker many years ago - I remember Grandma singing it.

heard it mentioned. They serve communion a bit differently perhaps - minor - and Methodists are likely to say ‘trespasses’ while those of Calvinist heritage are apt to say ‘debts’. But I feel very comfortable in those denominations and probably would in others as well. My paternal family had been Catholic and became Baptist years ago. Baptists are fine people, too, but some of their churches (not all) require a theological conformity that I cannot accept. Let’s face it: I am a ‘liberal’ Protestant in that I appreciate people who study the scriptures and may come up with different interpretations. Such diversity doesn’t trouble me at all as long as my views are respected, too.

 The biggest obstacle is authoritarianism, the teaching that one church and one church only teaches the full truth. Or that there is only one way to interpret scripture. That makes religion simpler, perhaps, just accept whatever one's church teaches. Sorry, but I can't do that. Some people will accuse me of pride or whatever, but I suspect that God appreciates my honesty. Actually, I profess ignorance in many areas because the marvels and miracles and majesty of God is beyond my mortal understanding. I love the old hymn that includes the world: "Farther along we'll know all about it, farther along we'll understand why...."

Then there are many other things that make union with Catholicism difficult, everything from the Pope, veneration of Mary and the saints, transubstantiation, and comfession to a priest to such lifestyle matters as celibacy of the clergy, forbidding artificial birth control, and divorce (except for 'church-endorsed' divorce called annulment.

 But I also have great difficulty with some forms of evangelical Protestantism. I love the scriptures, but there are many things in them that I simply cannot accept. Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark, Tower of Babel, etc. But also how Jehovah was said to command Joshua to murder all the inhabitants of such cities as Jericho and Ai, how Saul was told he had to kill every Amalekite, etc. I worship a God of love and not a god who goes around ordering such atrocities. 

  We could go on, but that's enough for now as urgent house chores await me. May God bless Catholics, Protestants and sincere followers of every faith that seeks to promote love. And may religion serve as a bridge and not a barrier.

Roy all of this is explain in the Bible remember this 2Pet 3:16==2 Peter 1; 20-21 acts 8:31 we now have over 32,000 non-cathloic Church and Our Lord stated ONE church, Please remember that the Church is the pillar of truth and NOT the Bible the Bible come along 200 to 300 years later,Christ started a Church and then a Bible and for about 1500 years all was good and then man come and well you know the rest read john 20;22=23 and the bible is full of Papacy/infallibility–if I can help with Bible verse please let me know, have a great weekend and may be we can talk later

This is what I was talking about Catholicism difficult, everything from the Pope, veneration of Mary and the saints, transubstantiation, and comfession to a priest to such lifestyle matters as celibacy of the clergy, forbidding artificial birth control, and divorce (except for ‘church-endorsed’ divorce called annulment.

 

[jmcrae]

But isn’t it the case that there are also quite a number of Catholics that use artificial methods of birth control because they do not see any evil in it and so they remain members of the Catholic Church?

Steadily,
Mick

They are excommunicated members of the Catholic Church. Just like those who physically leave, but don’t make a formal renunciation of the Faith. They are still bound by the rules; they are just not following them, at present.

But it is wrong to assume that someone who has no children, or not very many children, is practicing birth control. I am actually amazed at the number of married people I meet who have stopped having sex altogether, quite often because they simply are too busy and haven’t got the energy.

I see this busy-ness as a disease in our society. One of the most disturbing aspects of it is how virtuous it seems - some parents actually over-schedule their children on purpose, in order to “keep them out of trouble” and the habit of “keeping busy” continues into adulthood, and even into marriage.

 

[kenis]

One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Period. The Lord is not the author of confusion. Martin Luther was a heretic and precurser antichrist. There are many antichrists among us. Remember there were only 8 people and some animals in the arc that were save from the flood. Consume the lamb of God, its why he sacrificed Himself. Only the catholic church has the true successors of the apostles.