What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

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without reading all or even most of the posts,

my answer is:

i think the biggest obstacle between Catholics & Protestants (aside from osas:rolleyes:) is that Protestants believe or tend to believe all (most… some of) the stuff other protestants (writers) say about the RCC; they don’t always want to read stuff written by real Catholics…

and when they do… well, who wants to admit he has been in the wrong belief system all his life???
 
without reading all or even most of the posts,

my answer is:

i think the biggest obstacle between Catholics & Protestants (aside from osas:rolleyes:) is that Protestants believe or tend to believe all (most… some of) the stuff other protestants (writers) say about the RCC; they don’t always want to read stuff written by real Catholics…

and when they do… well, who wants to admit he has been in the wrong belief system all his life???
Pride???
 
yeah, that’s basically waht i meant…

(I’m a revert too…:)… never officially left the Church, but… that unofficial leaving can be pretty bad too…) 😦
I did, and I joined a non-denominational Born Again Fundamentalist Church, Liberty Bible Baptist Church and I Almost joined the Iglesia Ni Kristo. But hey I’m back and I thank these Christian Churches for making me recognize the Authority of the Jesus in Peter and in His Church. I don’t have to fully understand all the doctrines ( like most average joe I don’t have the intellect that you guys have, but I really have s strong faith in God). I just have the strong belief that Christ will not mislead me when I follow the Church he built, and the Chief Shepperd he appointed.
 
Wonderful discussion on this page wisdomseeker, spent a nice 15 minutes reading through.

The Church, ‘the one true church’, I indeed do not accept that Brother, I respect you as a Christian, I am Christian too, all Christians make up the Christian Church whom our Lord knows, many denominations but ONE Christian Church made up of all true Christians…with our Lord Jesus Christ as its founder.

The first Church was the early Church in Jerusalem it was only later that it was taken over by the bishop of Rome, and Satan began sowing his ‘tares’ amongst the ‘wheat’! All the different denominations have done their best to return to the beliefs of the pure Early Church in Jerusalem. I enjoyed the previous Post about all the Protestant denominations being quite alike.

One of the biggest obstacles to unity is to be honest, the arrogance of those who claim to be the ‘one true church’, they are right and the rest of us are wrong, (though there is not one denomination all wrong) all Christians are God’s representatives on earth.

I believe the Holy Scriptures which include the Writings of the Apostles, after that the first Church went astray with Constantine baptising whole armies by marching them through the Tiber, so many Pagans coming into the first Church soon watered down the pure beliefs of the Apostles. Let the Empire be ONE under ONE Religion? Problem was that pagan beliefs came in with the ‘converted’!! Which Protestants have been protesting about for years, and trying to get back to the pure religion of the Early Church in Jerusalem.

So, I respect you as a fellow Christian but please stop preaching about this ‘one true church’ rubbish…and I mean no disrespect to you.😛

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.👍
well, lets see. either the CC is right and you are wrong or the CC is wrong and you are right. which is it?

about pagans. it is interesting to see you claiming that pagans took over the Church. i assume you were once a pagan, am i right?

:highprayer::byzsoc:
 
Whose pride? Protestants like me who try to respect all faiths and do not claim to belong to the one true church? Or, those traditional Catholic who say that they alone belong to the one true church?
Code:
 Fortunately, few Catholics I know believe that any longer. Like me, they feel that God will examine our hearts and not our theology. Did we love God and our neighbor will be the question asked, and not what church did we attend, which doctrines did we believe, and were we loyal to the Pope, the vicar of Christ on earth?

  God bless Catholics, Protestants and all people who sincerely try to love God and our neighbors, as Christ commanded. And may religion become a bridge and not a barrier.
Jesus once said. " my brothers and mother are those who hears and does the will of God."

so the question becomes: are you hearing and doing the Will of God?

if Jesus established one Church to teach all He commanded to the world, how do you know you are doing the Will of God if you are not following the teachings of this Church? unless you dont believe no one is teaching the Truth any longer, you have no excuse not to seek where the Truth is.
 
Wonderful discussion on this page wisdomseeker, spent a nice 15 minutes reading through.

The Church, ‘the one true church’, I indeed do not accept that Brother, I respect you as a Christian, I am Christian too, all Christians make up the Christian Church whom our Lord knows, many denominations but ONE Christian Church made up of all true Christians…with our Lord Jesus Christ as its founder.

The first Church was the early Church in Jerusalem it was only later that it was taken over by the bishop of Rome, and Satan began sowing his ‘tares’ amongst the ‘wheat’! All the different denominations have done their best to return to the beliefs of the pure Early Church in Jerusalem. I enjoyed the previous Post about all the Protestant denominations being quite alike.

One of the biggest obstacles to unity is to be honest, the arrogance of those who claim to be the ‘one true church’, they are right and the rest of us are wrong, (though there is not one denomination all wrong) all Christians are God’s representatives on earth.

I believe the Holy Scriptures which include the Writings of the Apostles, after that the first Church went astray with Constantine baptising whole armies by marching them through the Tiber, so many Pagans coming into the first Church soon watered down the pure beliefs of the Apostles. Let the Empire be ONE under ONE Religion? Problem was that pagan beliefs came in with the ‘converted’!! Which Protestants have been protesting about for years, and trying to get back to the pure religion of the Early Church in Jerusalem.

So, I respect you as a fellow Christian but please stop preaching about this ‘one true church’ rubbish…and I mean no disrespect to you.😛

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.👍
All those pagans polluting the water. Yep. Gotta keep them undesireables out–for purity’s sake.

Where have we heard this argument for restoring purity before? Hitler, sure. But before that, and in the name of religion, here in the US, too. We saw it with those who came here for religious freedom – Religious freedom for themselves, and to rid their lives of such pollutants as Catholics and Jews. And of course long after that in the US with the anti-Catholic laws once Catholics were immigrating in large numbers.

One who is claiming to be a purifying factor in Christ’s Church has little claim to call others arrogant. And you really do have to decide if there is one church or many churches.

Are you implying that only Jews are proper Christians? That non-Jews, by nature, are inferior Catholics?

Borrowing a symbol is not the same as adopting its meaning.
 
…the CC promulgated a theological scheme that is really an offspring of Roman political theory and then monarchical absolutism.
Just last night I was watching Reasons to Believe on EWTN, and Dr. Scott Hahn covered this very notion. To paraphrase, Dr. Hahn stated that as a democratic culture, we tend to view all things, even the Church, in terms of democracy. Yet as Christians, we believe that we are part of God’s family. Families are not democratic. We do not vote to determine who our parents or siblings are. The CC is Christ’s Church. The scripture says “on this rock I will build MY Church…” Therefore, it is Christ who appoints the leaders and teachers. The notions or peculiar ideas of any given individual with an NIV study bible does not make a solid foundation for a church.

This is exactly why I became Catholic. The chaos of protestantism didn’t wash with me. How can we have thousands of would be leaders and teachers crying “sola scriptura” yet never in agreement about exactly what scripture says!

As far as “moving beyond” belief in God, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you. I don’t think the majority of humans are ready to believe that rolling out of bed every morning has no purpose other than to cultivate worm food.
 
But seriously, I’m curious about you’re second sentence:
Whose pride? Protestants like me who try to respect all faiths and do not claim to belong to the one true church?
So you don’t claim to belong to the one true church?
Or, those traditional Catholic who say that they alone belong to the one true church?
Code:
 Fortunately, few Catholics I know believe that any longer.
“Traditionalist Catholics” (or whatever you want to call them) are actually alive and thriving, particularly on CAF. Indeed theTraditional Catholicism, forum contains 186,454 posts.
 
**Quote:
Originally Posted by humble_in_doubt
…the CC promulgated a theological scheme that is really an offspring of Roman political theory and then monarchical absolutism. **

i guess you can apply this to our Lord Jesus. Jesus says, " I am the Truth…" absolute Truth, otherwise Jesus would have said, what Truth? truth is anything that you want to believe. it does not matter to me. you seem to forget one thing, man is not the Truth, Jesus is, and everything He said. ask for the Grace of our Lord to hear the Truth and believe.

you can only see the Truth through Grace from our Lord. so humble yourself before Him and ask.

“Seek and you shall find. Knock and shall be opened. Ask and shall be given to you.” many uses this to claim material riches. not so. how about use this promise to find the Truth?
 
A Couple Brief Points
Code:
 **PeterJ.** No, I don't believe that I belong to the one true church, because I don't believe any church should or can claim that. We are all pilgrims in this world, a world well beyond our human comprehension. Catholicism claims to unravel its primary mysteries, as do many conservative Protestants. I am content to live with wonder and in awe, journeying by faith and not by knowledge.. Harry Emerson Fosdick once said: "I can only believe in a God I cannot understand." I am interested in what others believe and, in general, respect differences. The trouble I have is with groups that claim that they alone have the truth (like many Catholics, Protestants and Muslims) and insinuate that people like me are misguided, prideful. rebellious, heretical, have an inferior faith, etc.

 **Ryeis**. True, millions of people find comfort in a faith that is essentially monarchial, not unlike the monarchies of medieval times. The Papacy resembles that and seems to be modeled after the Roman emperor tradition. People like me, however, like the freedom to check things out, even 'dabble' in heresies if you will. I have changed my mind on a few theological matters over the years and need that freedom to do so. Once I was heavily oriented toward Quakerism, and I still love the Society of Friends. Now I have moved more toward mainsteam liberal Protestantism, the variety that believes in a 'big tent' and welcomes all those who seeks to follow Christ. This includes everybody from conservative Baptists to those who hold on to Christianity by a thread, such as, say, many Unitarians. I appreciate the freedom to have vigorous discussions of belief without feeling compelled to believe what I may find simply unbelieveable. What some may see as confusion, I see as diversity, and I like it.

 **wisdomseeker**. Interesting that you quote one of the verses that many cite against veneration of Mary. As I recall, when Mary appeared and Jesus was told his mother was outside, he asked "Who is my mother?" etc. Some suggest that this indicated that Jesus did not elevate his mother to the status she gradually received within Catholicism. We all honor Mary, of course, but so often she seems to rival Jesus for top spot in Catholic churches. As for seeking the truth, I do that continuously, but as indicated above I live by faith and not by all those finer points of theology that Catholicism requires its communicants to accept. Theology so often gets in the way of honest inquiry and Christian unity. 

 And, by the way, a couple other points. I have read the church fathers and found much wisdom as well as some foolishness in them (because of their time frame). I love the scriptures but I am not scriptura sola as there are things in the Bible, beginning with the first eleven chapters of Genesis, that I view as a mixture of myth, legend and history. I admire much about Catholicism, such as its health facilities, and such people as St. Francis of Assisi, Mother Theresa, John XXIII, and Fr. Richard McBrien of Notre Dame (whose column I read weekly).  I think Pius IX was abominable with his "Syllabus of Errors" which, among other things, flatly condemned democracy and the separation of church and state, and I find it absolutely weird that someone like Padre Pio would become a saint! He claimed that he could levitate and bilocate among other strange assertions. Give me a break!

 God bless Catholics and Protestants and all people of sincere faith in God. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier, as it too often is today.
 
A Couple Brief Points
Code:
 **PeterJ.** No, I don't believe that I belong to the one true church, because I don't believe any church should or can claim that. We are all pilgrims in this world, a world well beyond our human comprehension. Catholicism claims to unravel its primary mysteries, as do many conservative Protestants. I am content to live with wonder and in awe, journeying by faith and not by knowledge.. Harry Emerson Fosdick once said: "I can only believe in a God I cannot understand." I am interested in what others believe and, in general, respect differences. The trouble I have is with groups that claim that they alone have the truth (like many Catholics, Protestants and Muslims) and insinuate that people like me are misguided, prideful. rebellious, heretical, have an inferior faith, etc.

 **Ryeis**. True, millions of people find comfort in a faith that is essentially monarchial, not unlike the monarchies of medieval times. The Papacy resembles that and seems to be modeled after the Roman emperor tradition. People like me, however, like the freedom to check things out, even 'dabble' in heresies if you will. I have changed my mind on a few theological matters over the years and need that freedom to do so. Once I was heavily oriented toward Quakerism, and I still love the Society of Friends. Now I have moved more toward mainsteam liberal Protestantism, the variety that believes in a 'big tent' and welcomes all those who seeks to follow Christ. This includes everybody from conservative Baptists to those who hold on to Christianity by a thread, such as, say, many Unitarians. I appreciate the freedom to have vigorous discussions of belief without feeling compelled to believe what I may find simply unbelieveable. What some may see as confusion, I see as diversity, and I like it.

 **wisdomseeker**. Interesting that you quote one of the verses that many cite against veneration of Mary. As I recall, when Mary appeared and Jesus was told his mother was outside, he asked "Who is my mother?" etc. Some suggest that this indicated that Jesus did not elevate his mother to the status she gradually received within Catholicism. We all honor Mary, of course, but so often she seems to rival Jesus for top spot in Catholic churches. As for seeking the truth, I do that continuously, but as indicated above I live by faith and not by all those finer points of theology that Catholicism requires its communicants to accept. Theology so often gets in the way of honest inquiry and Christian unity. 

 And, by the way, a couple other points. I have read the church fathers and found much wisdom as well as some foolishness in them (because of their time frame). I love the scriptures but I am not scriptura sola as there are things in the Bible, beginning with the first eleven chapters of Genesis, that I view as a mixture of myth, legend and history. I admire much about Catholicism, such as its health facilities, and such people as St. Francis of Assisi, Mother Theresa, John XXIII, and Fr. Richard McBrien of Notre Dame (whose column I read weekly).  I think Pius IX was abominable with his "Syllabus of Errors" which, among other things, flatly condemned democracy and the separation of church and state, and I find it absolutely weird that someone like Padre Pio would become a saint! He claimed that he could levitate and bilocate among other strange assertions. Give me a break!

 God bless Catholics and Protestants and all people of sincere faith in God. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier, as it too often is today.
this is how much you understand Scriptures… did not Mother Mary heard and obey God?

Jesus saw an opportunity to tell His desire to people like you. hear and obey.
it is not what i want to believe. it is what God wants me to believe. seek and you shall find.

:highprayer::byzsoc:
 
A Couple Brief Points
Code:
 God bless Catholics and Protestants and all people of sincere faith in God. May religion become a bridge and not a barrier, as it too often is today.
thank you…thats an absolute truth…fd
 
Ryeis. True, millions of people find comfort in a faith that is essentially monarchial, not unlike the monarchies of medieval times. The Papacy resembles that and seems to be modeled after the Roman emperor tradition.
Actually, Jesus modeled it after the Davidic Kingdom, as we see from His references to Isaiah 22 (a description of the Davidic Kingdom) when appointing Simon Peter as “key-bearer” in Matthew 16:18-19. 🙂
 
This focus on Mary obeying God. What was her choice? When an angel appears and says you’re going to be the mother of the Son of God, what’s the alternative? Plus, what an honor!
Code:
I honor Mary, though - to be completely honest - I always have doubted the virgin birth. There were so many of those in the ancient faiths. And what'e the matter with conceiving a child in the normal way? Some within Catholicism still seem obsessed with 'purity' which they identify with virginity. Virginity is fine, but no 'purer' than using our physical ability within the gift of love and marriage to reproduce. Wasn't God's first commandment in Genesis: "Be fruitful and multiply."?  

 This Mary matter is a key obstacle to unity. Catholicism added that Mary was the only person in history conceived without sin. To begin with, it seems unfair that innocent babies are born with and/or in sin. This can suggest that ordinary marital sex is sinful. Or, that "in Adam's fall we sinneth all" - guilty because of the sin of someone else. 

   One other thing, while we're at it. Much is made of St. Anne, Mary's mother, perhaps especially among French Catholics it seems. The Bible doesn't even mention Mary's parents. This seems to rest on legend that developed within Catholicism, like the names of the three wise men, etc.

   Having said all this, I do honor Mary as a devoted mother of a blessed Son. But the idea that the "Hail, Mary: is Catholicism's most frequently recited prayer is a bit disconcerting.

   Then, again, I honor all religions that promote love of God and love of humankind, that promote peace and justice, that practice tolerance of other faiths,  God bless Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims and all others who fall into that category. Even when I disagree with some of their specific teachings - as when Jesus cast demons into pigs or Mohammed traveled on his favorite steed to heaven - I recognize that most people need a faith. I have one, which is 'big tent' Christianity, treasure it, and thank God for it.
 
This focus on Mary obeying God. What was her choice? When an angel appears and says you’re going to be the mother of the Son of God, what’s the alternative? Plus, what an honor!

the alternative is the same today for you. you hear the Truth yet you chose to reject.
Code:
I honor Mary, though - to be completely honest - I always have doubted the virgin birth. There were so many of those in the ancient faiths. And what'e the matter with conceiving a child in the normal way? Some within Catholicism still seem obsessed with 'purity' which they identify with virginity. Virginity is fine, but no 'purer' than using our physical ability within the gift of love and marriage to reproduce. Wasn't God's first commandment in Genesis: "Be fruitful and multiply."?
**after they commited the sin of disobedience. **
Code:
 This Mary matter is a key obstacle to unity. Catholicism added that Mary was the only person in history conceived without sin. To begin with, it seems unfair that innocent babies are born with and/or in sin. This can suggest that ordinary marital sex is sinful. Or, that "in Adam's fall we sinneth all" - guilty because of the sin of someone else.
this is your biggest problem. you cant accept the fact that God is God and not just a being like you and me. get out of yourself please.
Code:
   One other thing, while we're at it. Much is made of St. Anne, Mary's mother, perhaps especially among French Catholics it seems. The Bible doesn't even mention Mary's parents. This seems to rest on legend that developed within Catholicism, like the names of the three wise men, etc.
and what do you know about anything that happened over 2000 yrs ago? the Church was there. you were not. humble yourself.
Code:
   Having said all this, I do honor Mary as a devoted mother of a blessed Son. But the idea that the "Hail, Mary: is Catholicism's most frequently recited prayer is a bit disconcerting.
again what do you know?
Code:
   Then, again, I honor all religions that promote love of God and love of humankind, that promote peace and justice, that practice tolerance of other faiths,  God bless Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims and all others who fall into that category. Even when I disagree with some of their specific teachings - as when Jesus cast demons into pigs or Mohammed traveled on his favorite steed to heaven - I recognize that most people need a faith. I have one, which is 'big tent' Christianity, treasure it, and thank God for it.
**I I IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIII i’s, you talk about yourself to much. **
 
WISDOMSEEKER
Code:
It seems that when someone takes issue with anything within Catholicism, there are those ready to accuse them of sinful pride or its equivalent. I believe that is known as argument ad hominum rather than discussing the subject. It's an old and devious device, aimed at discrediting the person rather than grappling with what he may be saying.

 I hope you confess this sin against another Christian and obtain absolution. You do your faith no favor by trying to demean others. Fortunately, I seek my understanding of faith in reading and prayer, and will continue to pray for greater understanding and humility among Christians. I have found that those who are less certain of their faith are inclined to be the most defensive.

 But God bless you anyway. And may religion become a bridge and not a barrier to reconciliation among the peoples of the world, whatever their faith.
 
WISDOMSEEKER
Code:
It seems that when someone takes issue with anything within Catholicism, there are those ready to accuse them of sinful pride or its equivalent. I believe that is known as argument ad hominum rather than discussing the subject. It's an old and devious device, aimed at discrediting the person rather than grappling with what he may be saying.

 I hope you confess this sin against another Christian and obtain absolution. You do your faith no favor by trying to demean others. Fortunately, I seek my understanding of faith in reading and prayer, and will continue to pray for greater understanding and humility among Christians. I have found that those who are less certain of their faith are inclined to be the most defensive.

 But God bless you anyway. And may religion become a bridge and not a barrier to reconciliation among the peoples of the world, whatever their faith.
there is only one way to know you have the Truth and it is only through One Church.
just yesterday on the news, this one woman priest in the episcopal church became a muslin. she was practicing both faith. she says that Jesus led her to be a muslim too. that you have it.

my friend i am no way afraid of persecution. i speak the Truth. the Truth Jesus commanded His Church to teach all men. you should have watched the Mass today on EWTN in which father Menezes touches this very subject. the Truth and the dictatorship of relativism. every time the Truth is spoken, the relativism try to shot it down.

i am in no way being defensive. that is your way of intimidating those who speaks the Truth. sorry, it doesnt work with me. i am very certain of my faith that is why i said what i said.

religion on itself cannot be a bridge to the Truth. the Truth is one either you accept or reject. there is no way around that.

Jesus said. “what profit a man to gain the whole world and looses his soul.”

:highprayer::byzsoc:
 
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