What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

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A Couple Brief Points
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 **PeterJ.** No, I don't believe that I belong to the one true church, because I don't believe any church should or can claim that.
I think you’re a trifle misinformed. Not every person who claims to belong to the one true Church, claims that the one true Church is his/her own church/denomination exclusively. The Orthodox claim to be the one true Church, and of course we Catholics (:)) claim to be the one true Church, but that’s about it. For example, an Anglican will (typically) tell you that he/she belongs to the one true Church, vis-à-vis the Anglican Communion being part of the one true Church.
 
Just last night I was watching Reasons to Believe on EWTN, and Dr. Scott Hahn covered this very notion. To paraphrase, Dr. Hahn stated that as a democratic culture, we tend to view all things, even the Church, in terms of democracy. Yet as Christians, we believe that we are part of God’s family. Families are not democratic. We do not vote to determine who our parents or siblings are. The CC is Christ’s Church. The scripture says “on this rock I will build MY Church…” Therefore, it is Christ who appoints the leaders and teachers. The notions or peculiar ideas of any given individual with an NIV study bible does not make a solid foundation for a church.

This is exactly why I became Catholic. The chaos of protestantism didn’t wash with me. How can we have thousands of would be leaders and teachers crying “sola scriptura” yet never in agreement about exactly what scripture says!

As far as “moving beyond” belief in God, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you. I don’t think the majority of humans are ready to believe that rolling out of bed every morning has no purpose other than to cultivate worm food.
Actually, the Christian churches that accept divorce view even the family as a democracy – so why not the church family as well?

If you don’t like your parents, leave them. Call them “toxic” and go your own way.
If you don’t like your spouse, divorce is the natural solution.
If you don’t like your pastor, you have 2 choices – vote him out of your church family (divorce) or call him/her “toxic” and be on your way to a new church family.
 
In reference to the comments upthread on the content of the Canon of Scripture as being problematic, personally, I seriously doubt that the content of the Canon of Scripture while important, is necessarily inherently church-dividing. Martin Luther included the deuterocanonical books in the German translation of the Bible, and in my experience when Protestants actually read them they are favorably impressed and wonder why those books are not in their Bible.

In my experience, the biggest problems for Protestants in order of importance are: (1) The biggest one of all - within the United States at least - cultural, political, and historical considerations - American culture is has been steeped in Calvinist ideals. This goes back to the Puritan and Separatist colonists in New England and the (Calvinist) Anglican colonists in the South; (2) Papal Primacy and Infallibility; ( 3) Mariology / the Marian doctrines; (4) Eschatology - which includes the “last things,” prayers to the saints, etc.; (5) Ecclesiology - the doctrine of the nature of the Church, the nature of authority within the Church and how that authority is exercised - which includes factor #2. (This last one was a (the ?) crucial issue for the (Saxon immigrant) founders of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, for example.

I have found sacramental theology to not be as big a problem as one might think. A suprising number of theologically conservative Protestants (in my experience) are coming around and accepting Transubstantiation. In my experience (an unscientific sample) it is the theologically liberal Churches (Episcopal, PCUSA, UMC, UCC among others) which deny any form of Divine Presence in the Eucharist based on their broad denial of the supernatural.

Blessings,
Irl
 
For what it is worth, I personally think that the divisions in the Church are not in any way, shape, or form God’s will, and never were.

Blessings,
Irl
 
For what it is worth, I personally think that the divisions in the Church are not in any way, shape, or form God’s will, and never were.

Blessings,
Irl
True. who caused the divisions? if we take history is serious, one would see why the divisions. martin luther, henry VIII, and so forth.
 
True. who caused the divisions? if we take history is serious, one would see why the divisions. martin luther, henry VIII, and so forth.
You are absolutely right. And perhaps, with the massive loss of faith going on in the mainline liberal Protestant Churches, maybe now is the time for a new counter-reformation. Pray for the reunion of the Church.

Blessings,
  • Irl
 
You are absolutely right. And perhaps, with the massive loss of faith going on in the mainline liberal Protestant Churches, maybe now is the time for a new counter-reformation. Pray for the reunion of the Church.

Blessings,
  • Irl
Amen to that brother.

my prayer is this: that they all may see as you see and are willing to reconcile back into the Church for the sake of God and all the world.

this has been going too long. how is the world to know the Truth if the CC says one thing and others so called christians cancels all out by teaching the opposite?

that is a causing for so much confusion and desecration of the Truth.
 
I’m actually not sure about that. The Seventh Day Adventists were founded by Ellen White in the late 1800s as an off-shoot of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (who do not, as far as I know, subscribe to the idea of “once saved, always saved”.)

ummmm…the sda wasnt founded by eg white,nor was it an offshoot of the jehovahs witness…the sda WAS founded by william miller who had been a baptist…eg white is the “prophet” of the sda church, not the founder…fd
 
A FEW DISSENTING COMMENTS
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l. There never was a united Christendom. True, Roman Catholicism was close to achieving that in western Europe when it had the power to eliminate heretics. But the eastern churches never acknowledged the authority of the Pope in Rome over their dioceses. In the west, Catholicism was able for some centuries to eliminate dissenters through intimidation or by killing them off, as in the case of the Albigenians or via the Inquisition. Just before Luther there were a number of 'heretical' movements, such as the Lollards, the Hussites and the Waldensians. They were oppressed, although the Waldensians managed to survive by fleeing into the hills. A few years ago they united with the Italian Methodists.

2, It's true: liberal Protestant groups have suffered, as more and more US Protestants have either deserted religion or moved to fundamentalist churches. However, a form of liberalism now is very powerful within the Catholic Church USA, almost certainly the majority sentiment among contemporary American Catholics. What also has especially amazed me is the percentage of former Catholics who have left religion entirely, or moved into Protestantism, both liberal and conservative groups. In visiting fundamentalist churches, I have found here in the northeast that the majority of their members would seem to be ex-Catholics. I have tried to figure that out. Any thoughts? In Connecticut, for example, the Catholic percentage of the population, according to a recent study, has dropped from 47% to 38%. How does one explain that?

 3. The notion that conservative Protestants are more likely to believe in the Real Presence than liberal Protestants seems to me to be questionable. What may be true is that many conservative Protestants take communion more seriously than many liberal Protestants. This may be especially true among African-American Protestants, a quite high percentage of the Protestant population in the US (probably 20%-25% or even higher). On the other hand, I have found communion much more casual, even fleeting, in many evangelical congregations. So it's a mixed situation, defying generalization until more study is done. Incidentally, the Latino percentage of US Catholics is approaching 40%, though Protestant fundamentalists are busy and quite successful among them. 

  4. The main obstacle to unity between Catholics and Protestants probably can be summed up as 'freedom'. This freedom has many components. Freedom of belief, without a compulsion to believe this or that doctrine that they may find unbelievable. Freedom to interpret scripture as they feel led. Freedom to debate matters of faith without being told that there is only one true view on the question and any other is heresy. Freedom of the Protestant clergy to marry and have families. Freedom of married couples to plan their families with the use of modern methods of birth control. Freedom from a 100% male hierarchy that governs the church, while Protestants treasure the central role the laity plays in running local churches. Very few Protestants, whatever their label, would give up this freedom.   

   But, anyway, God bless Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox - and, yes, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and all of our brothers and sisters of every race and creed and nation. The Catholic Church deserves much credit for its health ministry and reacing out to the poor. Thanks God for Mother Theresa and others. Let us work together to heal the wounds of past intolerance and make religion a bridge and not a barrier.
 
A FEW DISSENTING COMMENTS
Code:
l. There never was a united Christendom.


 3. The notion that conservative Protestants are more likely to believe in the Real Presence than liberal Protestants seems to me to be questionable. 

  4. The main obstacle to unity between Catholics and Protestants probably can be summed up as 'freedom'. This freedom has many components. Freedom of belief, without a compulsion to believe this or that doctrine that they may find unbelievable. Freedom to interpret scripture as they feel led. Freedom to debate matters of faith without being told that there is only one true view on the question and any other is heresy. Freedom of the Protestant clergy to marry and have families. Freedom of married couples to plan their families with the use of modern methods of birth control. Freedom from a 100% male hierarchy that governs the church, while Protestants treasure the central role the laity plays in running local churches. Very few Protestants, whatever their label, would give up this freedom.   

   Let us work together to heal the wounds of past intolerance and make religion a bridge and not a barrier.
  1. What an interesting sense of history. There never was a united Christendom? Really?
  2. I wasn’t aware that the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist was a Protestant teaching of any stripe, whether “liberal” or “conservative.” And aren’t those political labels anyway?
  3. It seems to be a common misunderstanding that freedom is not to be had in the Catholic Church, and also that freedom is to be had by adhering to one’s personal opinion over Truth. The tyranny of “truth by consensus” and the opinion(s) of the mob is not freedom and does not lead to freedom. A man is responsible for seeking Truth and adhering to that Truth once he finds it. And that Truth is Christ Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Clinging to self-will and self-love is to follow someone else other than Christ. I prefer to follow Christ. He is infinitely wiser than I am and I would rather place my entire life in His hands than in my own.
The freedom I have found in the Church is real freedom. The so-called “freedom” I thought I had found on the many paths I followed was just that: so-called. Real freedom flows from seeking and finding and adhering to real truth, even if that truth is inconvenient, troublesome, and absurd in the eyes of the world, especially to modern man. As for me, give me that ol’ time religion, the religion of Peter and Paul and the Lord into Whose hands they commended their lives and their spirits. Amen.
 
Our minds must remain free to explore, to contemplate and to evaluate higher subjects in order to gain maturity and understanding; or else we stagnate and decline.
Many men and women have reached middle age without achieving mental maturity so they condemn other sects so their sect is the best. If their sect is the best they wouldn’t worry about others, but would pursue God on a deeper level in their own.
Our spiritual maturity is directly related to our commitment to behave in a responsible manner.

The love of Christ presents man’s spirit with an intuitive understanding that the mysteries of faith can be brought into existence and appreciated. These mysteries are given to us to be mastered, and they seek understanding, not only in reflection, but also in prayer and meditation. God is everything, which we try to represent for the intellect and is infinitely more so we pass from philosophical understanding to faith, and then we pass from faith to spiritual understanding. Spiritual understanding is an intensification of faith transforming it into a vision, an experience and a mystical union. This spiritual vision is accomplished by sacrificing the ego into total submission, a moment where we give ourselves totally to God. Ego is a kind of anxiety that ties the spirit down to the physical plane and allows no enlargement of consciousness. Thanks to the death and sacrifice of Jesus and his physical form, we can achieve wonderful spiritual heights. Jesus by his grace died for us and then rose again spiritually to resurrect our consciousness from our egos. The ego stays alive by condemning other sects as inferior.
 
Our minds must remain free to explore, to contemplate and to evaluate higher subjects in order to gain maturity and understanding; or else we stagnate and decline.
Many men and women have reached middle age without achieving mental maturity so they condemn other sects so their sect is the best. If their sect is the best they wouldn’t worry about others, but would pursue God on a deeper level in their own.
Our spiritual maturity is directly related to our commitment to behave in a responsible manner.

The love of Christ presents man’s spirit with an intuitive understanding that the mysteries of faith can be brought into existence and appreciated. These mysteries are given to us to be mastered, and they seek understanding, not only in reflection, but also in prayer and meditation. God is everything, which we try to represent for the intellect and is infinitely more so we pass from philosophical understanding to faith, and then we pass from faith to spiritual understanding. Spiritual understanding is an intensification of faith transforming it into a vision, an experience and a mystical union. This spiritual vision is accomplished by sacrificing the ego into total submission, a moment where we give ourselves totally to God. Ego is a kind of anxiety that ties the spirit down to the physical plane and allows no enlargement of consciousness. Thanks to the death and sacrifice of Jesus and his physical form, we can achieve wonderful spiritual heights. Jesus by his grace died for us and then rose again spiritually to resurrect our consciousness from our egos. The ego stays alive by condemning other sects as inferior.
Huh?
 
Spiritual maturity doesn’t come by passing a Bible, or spiritual trivia contest. I feel people who can discriminate and discern with the spirit are mature.
 
Spiritual maturity doesn’t come by passing a Bible, or spiritual trivia contest. I feel people who can discriminate and discern with the spirit are mature.
I still don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

Perplexedly,
Mick
:confused:
 
The lack of respect for the views and beliefs of each other religions.
Respect is sometimes lacking, I agree. Saint Peter enjoins Christians to adopt this stance:

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect…

If only we could. God bless you, rev kevin. 🙂

Cordially,
Mick
👍
 
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