What do you think of climate change?

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…And more on those amazing models which just can’t seem to align with reality. (Roy Spencer’s blog)

Here is a graph of 50 years of model predictions for the Midwest US along with actual readings.

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Fifty years (1970-2019) of U.S. corn belt summer (JJA) warming since 1970 from observations (blue); the previous CMIP5 climate models (42 model avg., green); and the new CMIP6 climate models (13 model avg., red). The three time series have been vertically aligned so their trend lines coincide in the first year (1970), which is the most meaningful way to quantify the long-term warming since 1970.

The observed 50-year trend is only 0.086 C/decade (barely significant at the 1-sigma level), while the CMIP5 average model trend is 4X as large at 0.343 C/decade, and the CMIP6 trend is 5.7X as large at 0.495 C/decade.
 
IMHO, I think, regardless whether climate change is real or not, we should pay more attention to our environment and care for creation, as echoed in Laudato Si. While Greta Thunberg’s school strikes may be controversial, I think it is quite courageous of her to get her peers engaged in care for the environment and ways to preserve it.
 
Zerg said:
we should pay more attention to our environment and care for creation, as echoed in Laudato Si
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would be helpful if climate change deniers read LAUDATO SI’ and thought about its context WRT what is said in the bible,… sadly many pay lip service to the good book (yet know nothing)

TRUMP is a prime example, in interviews when asked about the bible his response indicates he is pretty clueless


furthermore the hard science has been dismissed as fake news by TRUMP who,…
farronwolf said:
only thinks about how he looks. Unfortunately, he realized that by holding the carrot of being somewhat anti abortion in front of Americans, a large number of them would simply follow blindly.
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the yuge problem in modern society is people blindly worship money and consumer goods,… again TRUMP is a prime example with his devotion prosperity theology (which is anti first commandment)


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have not read anything about greta thunberg’s faith,… but seems Pope Francis has given her his blessing (figuratively speaking)


basically if laid out like a road map, we see that devotion to consumer goods along w/ worshiping money is one of many “comforting lies” which is a (knock on effect) root cause of climate change,… science has shown this to be a fact BUT the science just happens to be one of many “unpleasant truths” that far too many don’t fully grasp and/or dismiss as fake news

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because personally have not seen any infographic about LAUDATO SI’ its context WRT the 10 commandments along what is said in the bible AND how all this relates to science,… created the following to be thought provoking

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So, our climate is changing. Our planet has undergone numerous changes in climate over the billions of years it has existed. This is nothing new. I’m a little tired of the political football that’s being made of it.
 
Zerg said:
IMHO, I think, regardless whether climate change is real or not, we should pay more attention to our environment and care for creation, as echoed in Laudato Si. While Greta Thunberg’s school strikes may be controversial, I think it is quite courageous of her to get her peers engaged in care for the environment and ways to preserve it.
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If the history of this era is written by objective people, I think they will write that terrible land management actually did cause a fair amount of both CO2 increase and atmospheric warming. Desertified land releases CO2 and consumes virtually none, and it radiates sunlight back into the atmosphere instead of cooling it with water and consuming both sunlight and CO2 as it would if it was covered with vegetation.

I think honest historians will write that there was a great deal of research on the matter done largely in the agriculture universities (not the largely liberal arts ones) where they actually do scientific testing of methods of restoring carbon to the soil and reducing radiation. They actually do a good job of it and a lot of farmers and ranchers are changing practices to be consistent with those recommendations.

But the media people aren’t interested at all. I had occasion to talk to a fellow who is a writer on “sustainability” for a news organization. I asked him if he would be interested in what the aggie school research is showing about real sustainability. It was not interesting to him at all, and he never looked into it. It doesn’t fit the ideology.
 
Ridgerunner said:
But the media people aren’t interested at all. I had occasion to talk to a fellow who is a writer on “sustainability” for a news organization. I asked him if he would be interested in what the aggie school research is showing about real sustainability. It was not interesting to him at all, and he never looked into it. It doesn’t fit the ideology.
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Continue your search. I’m hoping there are sustainability writers that would be interested in farming and ranching views and the techniques used. Just because one writer was not interested doesn’t mean others aren’t! Keep trying! I’d be interested in hearing farmer/ranchers views…they are some smart cookies!
 
1 John 2: 15 - 17

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

COMMENT: The climate change angst is very controversial, as one can see from the many differing posts in this thread.

What is not controversial is that drumming up public fear drives the worldly, progressive, pseudo-religious clamor that “we must do something before catastrophe strikes.” This sounds a little like Chicken Little “The sky is falling! The sky is falling!” This fear mongering drives increased regulation and government intrusion into the lives of everyone. In short, fear mongering drives the totalitarian agenda. Maybe the people pushing the climate change terror want to deprive you of your liberty, and your God-given rights.

The world is probably a pretty stable self-correcting ecosystem. If humans collectively push it out of balance, in some way massive depopulation will probably occur to restore the balance over time. The world is also a patient ecosystem. It experiences no sense of urgency about self-correction.

This fallen world is always passing away. There is wisdom in grasping this truth.

It is wrong to worship the earth…yet this is the very religion being actively promoted by the United Nations. This religion is contrary to Christianity and Catholicism. It is a sophisticated form of militant paganism.

St. John reminds us that doing God’s will in our individual lives is the only accomplishment that will endure forever.
 
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Pattylt said:
Continue your search. I’m hoping there are sustainability writers that would be interested in farming and ranching views and the techniques used. Just because one writer was not interested doesn’t mean others aren’t! Keep trying! I’d be interested in hearing farmer/ranchers views…they are some smart cookies!
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The most interesting articles are published by the agricultural schools and their extensions. Some of them are tediously technical, but in my mind they’re the just about the only serious “sustainability” sources out there. The MSM publications are ideological and largely ignorant.

And I do read the ag school articles frequently; mainly the U. of Mo of course, but also Texas A&M and the University of Oklahoma. They’re very good when it comes to restoring and properly managing grasslands.
 
Zerg said:
we should pay more attention to our environment and care for creation
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Everybody agrees with this. 99.9999999% of the world’s population wants a health, thriving planet. Everyone in this thread on both sides of the issue has expressed concern for the state of the planet and a desire to improve on all the troubles we face.

The problem comes when one side is presenting solutions that are actually problems, and creating an almost dogmatic faith around a set of assumptions that have, time and time again, been proven wrong. The problem comes from unnecessarily convincing an entire generation of children that they have no future and that the planet is doomed because of climate change. My youngest sister has bad anxiety because she’s been fed a steady stream of this nonsense for her entire school career. It infuriates me that people are allowed to fear monger like this.
 
Ridgerunner said:
and the University of Oklahoma.
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Okay, you read OU’s AG papers but not OSU’s? Now I know you’re not serious about the climate.

(😛 just some fun from an OSU grad. To be fair though, OSU does have one of the best agricultural schools in the country.)
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Okay, you read OU’s AG papers but not OSU’s? Now I know you’re not serious about the climate.
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I apologize. I actually do read OK State’s stuff from time to time. I’m fairly certain the last one I read was from there. It was about the percentage of “dirt” that would ultimately be composed of sequestered carbon (the rest being “rock dust”) if the grasslands were properly managed. I don’t now remember the percentage, but it way above half; 80% or so maybe. Anyway, it went into discussion of minimum blade length required for proper photosynthesis for warm season grasses. Of course, they’re more into species like buffalo grass that we don’t grow around here. (knowingly, anyway 🙂
 
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It’s getting that way here with MU and MSU. MU seems to be on the wane, while MSU is the up and coming place people want to go. MSU is kind of shamelss, though. They want to beat MU all the time in the number of Naitonal Merit scholars they recruit. One of my daughters was one, and they offered her free tuition, free room and board, free computer, and a season ticket to Silver Dollar City in Branson. Shameless.🙂

Should have added that there is competition in ag too. MSU got gifted a large ranch and prize cattle herd by a wealthy family, and it now has one of the foremost study programs in the country when it comes to cattle. They have an auction every year, and I sometimes buy there.
 
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Personally, I think that the problem of climate change is such that it surpasses humanity’s powers to contain/solve/ameliorate it. In other words, given the greatness of the problem, it requires a super-human solution - God.

This isn’t to say we should give in to defeatism. That is not what I am implying. We should take PRACTICAL steps to slow down the progress of it, but not at the expense of our human sovereignty. At the end of the day, we need to look to God, who can literally bring life from death, can make all things right. I am not saying we should just let the environment go to hell, or not do what is in our power to slow the train down. But given the direction of history, we need to realize that things are going to generally become worse before they get better, and there is only so much that humans can do to stem the tide. It will take a supernatural power to set the world to rights in all its departments, including environmental. To lack faith in God is to be faithless. And if one is faithless in the great matters, how can one be faithful in lesser?
 
OSU started as Oklahoma A&M. Agricultural research has always been one of it’s main things.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Everybody agrees with this. 99.9999999% of the world’s population wants a health, thriving planet.
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This is far different than what I observe.

I see too many individuals doing things that could not be done by anyone who actually values the environment. On a gorgeous breezy day in any parking lot/garage I see people lounging in their car or company vehicle, running the A/C. 🤔 Likewise, our appetite for buying new stuff and for entertainment, putting so many people on the road, causing traffic and exhaust. We cause pollution from not just the shopping, we cause it by increasing pollution from manufacturing and all the shipping involved.

The focus, IMO, of the individual on the government/regulatory/political aspects of the issue needs to take secondary importance, and our own individual behavior/lifestyle needs to be front and center.
 
Buks said:
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ProdglArchitect:
Everybody agrees with this. 99.9999999% of the world’s population wants a health, thriving planet.
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This is far different than what I observe.

I see too many individuals doing things that could not be done by anyone who actually values the environment.
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care for the environment is a very complex issue AND too few actually understand the downside consequences of not taking care of creation
phaster said:
if laid out like a road map, we see that devotion to consumer goods along w/ worshiping money is one of many “comforting lies” which is a (knock on effect) root cause of climate change,… science has shown this to be a fact BUT the science just happens to be one of many “unpleasant truths” that far too many don’t fully grasp and/or dismiss as fake news

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then,… given human nature there always will be climate whataboutisms/useful idiots so its difficult to find common ground!!!

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also too often people think they can be an expert in the topic which looking at the issue as a catholic is a sin of pride
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as someone who has been following the climate change issue for decades, I know that science cannot exactly say what is going to happen,… but many deniers who have zero formal science education basically throw the baby out with the bathwater
phaster said:
as a catholic hard science guy I think of it this way,…

How Should I Deal With Climate Change Fears? - #56 by phaster

if a liberal CC believer jumped off a tall bridge things would not end well,… likewise same thing would happen to an individual having a conservative mindset, if they jumped off a tall bridge

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bottom line, because the basic science of CO2 and CC (like the idea of gravitation) is immutable,… deniers can ignore climate change, but climate change will not ignore deniers
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sad truth is the downward trend will continue until deniers somehow recognize there is in fact is a big problem w/ climate change politics


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Why White Evangelicals Voted For Trump

In 2016, more than 80 percent of white evangelical Christians voted for President Trump. Author Kristin Kobes Du Mez’s new book, “Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation” attempts to understand why.

"Jesus and John Wayne" describes how what it means to be a Christian man manifested through past American presidents, but most notably, manifests in America’s current president: Donald Trump.

On today’s episode of River to River, host Ben Kieffer speaks with Du Mez about her new book, which explains how President Trump became the “fulfillment, rather than the betrayal” of evangelical values.

Why White Evangelicals Voted For Trump | Iowa Public Radio

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53121662-jesus-and-john-wayne
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find it interesting that a professor at a christian university specifically points out that many evangelicals are theologically illiterate


after listening to the interview about the world view held by many, it makes more sense to me why greta is not respected,… aside from lack of scientific understanding about climate change there is also theological illiteracy along with a cultural bias



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