What do you think of climate change?

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JanR said:
This planet has been undergoing climate changes since its very beginning. Why is this being looked at as something new?
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think of it this way,… if a person jumps off a tall building what actually causes problems is the sudden rate of change
The planet is undergoing one of the largest changes in climate since the dinosaurs went extinct. But what might be even more troubling for humans, plants and animals is the speed of the change. Stanford climate scientists warn that the likely rate of change over the next century will be at least 10 times quicker than any climate shift in the past 65 million years.

[IMG ]https://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/august/images/12919-climatemap_news.jpg[/IMG]
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“…We know from past changes that ecosystems have responded to a few degrees of global temperature change over thousands of years,” said Diffenbaugh. “But the unprecedented trajectory that we’re on now is forcing that change to occur over decades. That’s orders of magnitude faster, and we’re already seeing that some species are challenged by that rate of change.”

Stanford scientists: Climate change on pace to occur 10 times faster than any change recorded in past 65 million years
given the pandemic, one way to see why very rapid change is a very big problem is consider what happened to the airline/travel industry,… (IOW those that can’t adapt are going to die off)
How Are U.S. Airlines Adapting with COVID-19 and Social Distancing

As the U.S. is escalating its steps to prevent the further spread of the COVID-19 virus, U.S. airlines have been adjusting to the ever-changing environment to accommodate customers and preserve funds.

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/...-Adapting-with-COVID-19-and-Social-Distancing
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A War Against Climate Science, Waged by Washington’s Rank and File

Efforts to undermine climate change science in the federal government, once orchestrated largely by President Trump’s political appointees, are now increasingly driven by midlevel managers trying to protect their jobs and budgets and wary of the scrutiny of senior officials, according to interviews and newly revealed reports and surveys.

A case in point: When John Crusius, a research chemist at the United States Geological Survey, published an academic paper on natural solutions to climate change in April, his government affiliation never appeared on it. It couldn’t.

Publication of his study, after a month’s delay, was conditioned by his employer on Dr. Crusius not associating his research with the federal government.

“There is no doubt in my mind that my paper was denied government approval because it had to do with efforts to mitigate climate change,” Dr. Crusius said, making clear he also was speaking in his personal capacity because the agency required him to so. “If I were a seismologist and had written an analogous paper about reducing seismic risk, I’m sure the paper would have sailed through.”

Government experts said they have been surprised at the speed with which federal workers have internalized President Trump’s antagonism for climate science, and called the new landscape dangerous.

A War Against Climate Science, Waged by Washington’s Rank and File - The New York Times
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by actively ignoring the science seems this is akin to what happens in a madrasas!!!
…madrasas promote Islamic extremism and militancy, and are a recruiting ground for terrorism

…Because most madrasa graduates have access only to a limited type of education, they commonly are employed in the religious sector as prayer leaders and Islamic scholars. Authorities in various countries are considering proposals for introducing improved science and math content into madrasas’ curricula

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21654.pdf
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Ender said:
The rest is simply a waste of money. Fusion, however, would provide virtually limitless power and solve pretty much everyone’s problems. You might wonder why it doesn’t get more support from the greens given that it would do what they claim to want.
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Greens need a viable alternative, not a great concept that keeps moving away from the finish line 🙂

I too support ongoing Fusion research but also wish we kept up innovation in regular nuclear. However since other counties are investing here, I expect LFTR reactors to become a thing in the next 10 yrs, just not in the USA
 

Climate Statistics 101: see the Slide Show AOC Tried, and Failed, to Censor​

This is the slide show and 20-minute talk that Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Chellie Pingree tried to censor at the LibertyCon 2020 conference in Washington, D.C. After Dr. Rossiter gave a climate talk at LibertyCon 2019, they wrote to sponsors of the event, such as Google and Facebook, and asked them not to fund any event with an appearance by “climate deniers” from the CO2 Coalition.
 
Global warming is a Marxist hoax. I find it troubling many Catholic leaders are concerned with it. They should be concerned with saving our souls.
 
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Hottest Arctic temperature record probably set with 100-degree reading in Siberia

A northeastern Siberian town is likely to have set a record for the highest temperature documented in the Arctic Circle, with a reading of 100.4 degrees (38 Celsius) recorded Saturday in Verkhoyansk, north of the Arctic Circle and about 3,000 miles east of Moscow. Records at that location have been kept since 1885.

If verified, this would be the northernmost 100-degree reading ever observed, and the highest temperature on record in the Arctic, a region that is warming at more than twice the rate of the rest of the globe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/06/21/arctic-temperature-record-siberia/
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I am now in my 60’s, and I seem to remember that when I was younger I was shouting about the environment, Friends of the Earth member. We were told that we were nuts. Did not the hippies go on about recycling. The late John Denver was an eco-warrior. With all that in mind we are now told that we are destroying the world and that we should recycle everything in sight. Is this a genuine concern for God’s planet or is it another way of making money?
 
Caspian said:
The late John Denver was an eco-warrior. With all that in mind we are now told that we are destroying the world and that we should recycle everything in sight. Is this a genuine concern for God’s planet or is it another way of making money?
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I gladly participated in the clean-up of said environment in the 70’s. As a boy I recall being with dozens of people walking along the road outside of our small town, picking up loads of trash. We made a difference and the trash never came back to such levels, people started caring and changed their habits.
 
Caspian said:
Is this a genuine concern for God’s planet or is it another way of making money?
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I don’t know about the concern, but it is certainly not a way of making money. The recycling business is barely profitable (or not at all?), especially with mixed stream recycling. Some of the material that is recycled might have some value, but by the time it is all mixed together (for convenience of the consumer and for pickup) it presents a huge separation problem, often requiring human processing in a job that is dangerous, unfulfilling, and low-paid. Maybe other regions of the country or the world are different, but it seems to me that if we had separate stream recycling for the highest value materials, like aluminum cans, and they weren’t all mixed up with paper and plastic and the occasional needle and household trash that get included by mistake, then the process might actually pay for itself.
 
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Caspian said:
Is this a genuine concern for God’s planet or is it another way of making money?
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FWIW this is how I look at the issue

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actually money mismanagement (i.e. debt AND the prosperity gospel) is the root cause of all kinds of problems

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Buy, Borrow, Steal: How Debt Became The ‘Sugar-Rush’ Solution To Our Economic Woes

For most of America’s history, debt was something to be avoided. But in the past hundred years, the country’s relationship to debt has drastically changed. Companies, even the government, began to urge people to borrow money, linking that borrowing and subsequent spending to a healthy economy. One way they convinced Americans to buy into this idea was through re-branding. In the 1980s, for example, second mortgages became known as “home equity loans.”

“There was a systematic effort to actually invent this term home equity,” Sufi says. “And the idea was, well, it’s your equity in your home. You have every right to borrow against it. It’s not a bad thing to borrow against that equity.”

But in their book, House of Debt: How They (And You) Caused The Great Recession And How We Can Prevent It From Happening Again, Sufi and co-author Atif Mian argue that the buildup of household debt is the single most important driver of severe recessions. This is counter to the traditional argument that the breakdown of financial institutions causes recessions.

This week on Hidden Brain, as the nation enters another severe recession spurred on by the COVID-19 pandemic, we examine the lessons we can learn from the last recession, and ask whether there ways to ensure that the most pain doesn’t fall on those who can least afford it.

Quick Credit And The Hidden Cost To The Economy : NPR
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bottom line we’re in big trouble because politicians, pundits, business leaders, etc., didn’t learn the difference between wants and needs (when they were kids)


www.TinyURL.com/CCpolitics

PS politicians, pundits, business leaders, etc., also never learned science

www.TinyURL.com/HowBigIsTheEarth

www.TinyURL.com/Global-Dimming
 
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Michael Schellenberger apologizes for his part in perpetuating climate change fraud.

His credentials…


His written apology, including his reasons for coming out against alarmism…


Forbes initially publishes, and then retracts, his letter after pressure from activists.


So apparently some are just not interested in having a reasoned discussion but are more concerned with silencing those they oppose.
 

dismissing an environmental apocalypse (i.e. the traditional definition) is most likely a case of (comforting lies vs unpleasant truths)

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specifically point this out because a related pinocchio factor should be accounted for (graphic recent example)

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In late April 2013, the Twitter account of the Associated Press (AP) surprised its millions of followers after it tweeted that an explosion at the White House injured President Barack Obama. It garnered over 4,000 retweets and became one of the most expensive tweets in history after it caused stock prices to drop. While stock markets rebounded as soon as the tweet was confirmed to be fake, the damage had been done — it cost over $130 billion in stock value losses.

The incident was cited in a recent research by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), which delved into 126,000 stories tweeted by around 3 million accounts from 2006 to 2017. The researchers, Soroush Vosoughi, Deb Roy, and Sinan Aral, found that fake news stories spread faster and were more likely to be retweeted than true stories. Fake news cascade down to between 1,000 and 100,000 Twitter users.

Study Finds Fake News Spreads Faster Than Real News on Twitter - Security News
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in general lots of misinformation out there,… as a physicist I look at the system having lots of noise and very little signal,… so to understand the complex problem of climate change requires looking into all kinds of details, along w/ keeping in mind the big picture


http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01452-z



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I think with some self-reflection you’ll eventually discover you’ve taken the left turn in that Fork jpg.

You could start by trying to rebut Schellenberger’s arguments, rather than deflecting with off topic jpgs and articles.
 
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HarryStotle said:
So apparently some are just not interested in having a reasoned discussion but are more concerned with silencing those they oppose.
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There are valid reasons for skepticism, and silencing those concerns becomes more difficult with time, especially as errors in the models become more apparent.


Because the primitive equations use discontinuous columnar forcing (parameterizations), excessive energy is injected into the smallest scales of the model. This necessitates the use of unrealistically large dissipation to keep the model from blowing up. That means the fluid is behaving more like molasses than air.

…given any time dependent system (even if it is not the correct one for the fluid being studied), if one is allowed to choose the forcing, one can reproduce any solution one wants. This is essentially what the climate modelers have done in order to match the previous climate given the wrong dynamical system and excessive dissipation.

Because the dissipation in climate models is so large, the parameterizations must be tuned in order to try to artificially replicate the atmospheric spectrum. Mathematical theory based on the turbulence equations has shown that the use of the wrong amount or type of dissipation leads to the wrong solution. In the climate model case, this implies that no conclusions can be drawn about climate sensitivity because the numerical solution is not behaving as the real atmosphere.

Are the author’s claims accurate? I certainly can’t say, but this goes to the point that science is a search for truth and eventually that truth will emerge, sturm und drang notwithstanding.
 
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In the meantime we will just have to live with the devastating effects of global warming.


Record-setting corn and wheat crops were also forecast for 2020/21 and would contribute to the first increase of global stocks in four years.

However shall we cope? Yes! Electric cars.


Oops.
 
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Theo520 said:
with some self-reflection you’ll eventually discover you’ve taken the left turn in that Fork jpg.
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huh,… self-reflection?!

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since einstein used the idea of frames of reference to describe the theory of relativity perhaps you might enjoy a bigger picture (note the fork in the road)

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basically it takes some combination of courage, brains and tenacity to take the right fork,… whereas the left fork is the path of least resistance (and is a root cause of global CO2 production)



also consider there is not deflection off topic as you insinuated,…

using Einstein thinking, there two theories of relativity (the special and the general case),… so on the left hand path note the the emphasis on consumer consumption and the worshiping of the golden calf (in general)

now consider TRUMP in historical terms

phaster said:
this got me thinking about theological principles and TRUMP as POTUS
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bottom line point (general case) I was trying to make is,… looking at past trends TRUMP like too many like him think they are stable genius brainiacs who have the natural ability to understand climate science (when in reality they are more akin to Homer Simpson in their scientific knowledge) in large part due to consumption of biased reporting of news about science
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What do you think of climate change? Social Justice
dismissing an environmental apocalypse (i.e. the traditional definition) is most likely a case of (comforting lies vs unpleasant truths) (This uploaded content is no longer available. specifically point this out because a related pinocchio factor should be accounted for (graphic recent example) (This uploaded content is no longer available. in general lots of misinformation out there,… as a physicist I look at the system having lots of noise and very little signal,… so to understand the c…
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More on the economics of solar and wind power; this from South Africa.


“The test of global reality: There is nothing like the test of global reality. In 2016, the prices paid by industry in Germany were approximately 52% higher than France (nuclear) and 86% higher than Poland (coal). The average estimates discussed above result in costs that are close to this global reality.”

The Law of Unintended Consequences at work: “The final nail in the coffin for South Africa is that increased penetration of wind will lead to a rapidly rising import bill for gas imports and the demise of its coal mining industry, if not the entire mining industry. These are catastrophes which could ensure that the future of South Africa will move towards rising unemployment, increasing poverty and increasing social and political instability.”
 
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