What do you think of climate change?

[phaster]

One good volcanic eruption here will change the climate in ways we can’t even begin to imagine.

This argument that human-caused carbon emissions are merely a drop in the bucket compared to greenhouse gases generated by volcanoes has been making its way around the rumor mill for years. And while it may sound plausible, the science just doesn’t back it up.

According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.

…spectacular volcanic eruptions, like that of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 and Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, actually lead to short-term global cooling, not warming, as sulfur dioxide (SO2), ash and other particles in the air and stratosphere reflect some solar energy instead of letting it into Earth’s atmosphere

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/

Human activities emit 60 or more times the amount of carbon dioxide released by volcanoes each year. Large, violent eruptions may match the rate of human emissions for the few hours that they last, but they are too rare and fleeting to rival humanity’s annual emissions. In fact, several individual U.S. states emit more carbon dioxide in a year than all the volcanoes on the planet combined do.

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…In a 2011 peer-reviewed paper, U.S. Geologic Survey scientist Terry Gerlach summarized five previous estimates of global volcanic carbon dioxide emission rates that had been published between 1991 and 1998. Those estimates incorporated studies reaching back to the 1970s, and they were based on a wide variety of measurements, such as direct sampling and satellite remote sensing. The global estimates fell within a range of about 0.3 ± 0.15 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year, implying that human carbon dioxide emissions were more than 90 times greater than global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions.

…Occasionally, eruptions are powerful enough to release carbon dioxide at a rate that matches or even exceeds the global rate of human emissions for a few hours. For example, Gerlach estimated that the eruptions of Mount St. Helens (1980) and Pinatubo (1991) both released carbon dioxide on a scale similar to human output for about nine hours. Human emissions of carbon dioxide continue day after day, month after month, year after year.

Which emits more carbon dioxide: volcanoes or human activities? | NOAA Climate.gov

 

[undead_rat]

Climate has always changed and will continue to do so.
One good volcanic eruption here will change the climate in ways we can’t even begin to imagine.

Not to mention a global nuclear war which is predicted to occur in the 21st century.

 

[KyPerson]

Interesting. I know that the eruption of Mt. Tambora caused the Year Without a Summer. And incidentally led to Mary Shelley writing Frankenstein. She and her husband and friends had planned on a summer in Switzerland, but the cold kept them indoors. They told stories and she wrote her’s down.

 

[phaster]

Interesting. I know that the eruption of Mt. Tambora caused the Year Without a Summer. And incidentally led to Mary Shelley writing Frankenstein.

yup, I do know of the of weather related story that inspired the fictional classic “Frankenstein”

FWIW here is something else you might find interesting

Siberian Traps likely triggered end-Permian mass extinction

and one reason scientists are troubled who look at the current trends of man made CO2 production,… is because

Earth Has Seen CO2 Spike Before. It Didn’t End Well.

…In the 1990s, scientists thought asteroid impacts had triggered five mass extinctions, including the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Now, they’ve come to realize that the other four of the Earth’s mega-disasters probably came from within — triggered by belches of carbon into the atmosphere and oceans.

The worst of the five was an event called the end-Permian. It started with volcanic eruptions, which ignited carbon-rich sediments, infusing the atmosphere with a jolt of new carbon dioxide. Within a few thousand years, more than 90 percent of species went extinct.

Some people present this as a cautionary tale. Is that reasonable? It happened 252 million years ago, and the temperature rose more than the worst-case projections for fossil-fuel-induced global warming. On the other hand, it was a pretty good proof of principle.

The principle isn’t just that increasing carbon dioxide makes things get hot, but that fast changes in ocean and atmospheric chemistry can trigger a reordering of the living world. That in turn causes more chemical changes, leading to cascading changes in the biosphere.

…Rothman came up with a formula based on both the rate and total amount of added carbon, and demonstrated that it predicted which of those 31 periods would lead to catastrophe. According to his formula, our current rate of emissions is extremely high, but it won’t cause a mass extinction unless our total emissions add 310 gigatons of carbon to the oceans. He published the results in Science Advances.

The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change estimates that human activity will add 300 and 500 gigatons of carbon to the oceans by the end of the 21st century, so 310 is close to the best-case scenario.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

WRT the best-case scenario,… we’ll need a smooth running global economy in order to for mankind to survive this trial by fire,… because of “Merchants of Doubt” we are where we are, so the “Frankenstein” scenario we have to be aware of is,… suppose in a decade or so, the global economic and finance system is basically stuck in the same state Venezuela is in today

http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/venezuela-economy-facts-2019-5-1028225117

AND suppose humanity needs to build various kinds of infrastructure to address very noticeable adverse symptoms of “climate change”

www.TinyURL.com/DifferentDay

 

[Ender]

and one reason scientists are troubled who look at the current trends of man made CO2 production,… is because

In the meantime, here is the actual effect of increased CO2, and so far it’s been quite beneficial.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/05/global-greening-is-happening-faster-than-climate-change-and-its-a-good-thing/

 

[steve-b]

I actually still want an answer from Mr Steve B?

Full disclosure! This WILL SAY A LOT ABOUT YOU!

As I already said. I believe in climate change. We have it 4 times/yr. It’s called seasons. Warming and cooling. happen regardless of what we do.

Also as I said previously HERE and here, Why an ice age occurs every 100,000 years: Climate and feedback effects explained THAT also happens (according to science) regardless of what we do or don’t do as well…whether humans are here on this planet or the planet is empty of human life.

 

[steve-b]

MR Steve B. I am a Chemical Engineer. And I will correspond to anyone deemed!

I won’t hold that against you.

 

[steve-b]

The medical example you use, (CT scan) is provable, it’s a seen result, it is not a guess nor a theory.

LeafByNiggle:

Have you seen the scientific evidence that there are invisible rays shooting through your body, or do you just believe what others have told you about these rays? Initially it was a guess, which became formulated as a theory, which gained support as experiments were constructed to test the theory. Same as climate science.

The evidence is all there. Because it is a reproducible, specifically manufactured, medical device Computed Tomography (CT)

 

[Maxirad]

The controversial Catholic apologist Michael Voris has insisted that man-made climate change is a scam. Back in 2009, however, Jesse “The Body” Ventura expressed a position that may be easier to adopt.

 

[Tolle_Lege]

“Climate change” is giving evolution a run for the money as the greatest hoax ever foisted upon mankind.

 

[Maxirad]

“Climate change” is giving evolution a run for the money as the greatest hoax ever foisted upon mankind.

Well, Tolle_Lege, what do you have to say about intelligent design?

 

[Tolle_Lege]

It’s easy, I read Genesis and believe it for what it says. No Church teaching precludes me from believing otherwise.

 

[phaster]

phaster:

and one reason scientists are troubled who look at the current trends of man made CO2 production,… is because

In the meantime, here is the actual effect of increased CO2, and so far it’s been quite beneficial.

Global greening is happening faster than climate change, and it’s a good thing – Watts Up With That?

[SARCASM ON]

BRILLIANT!!!

[SARCASM OFF]

not throwing down the ad hominem personality card per se,… BUT you’re honestly suggesting catholics follow the example of a guy who had a big part to play in crashing the financial system and has a proven track record of not having the brains to see major problems?!

FYI your talentless (but connected) friend, pre 2007/2008 was pushing subprime loans on the other side of the pond and was the captain of a foreign bank, that ran aground and sank

Northern Rock chief admits to 'catastrophic black mark’

In an interview with Newcastle’s The Journal newspaper, Mr Ridley said: "I enormously regret what happened at Northern Rock. It’s an incredibly painful memory for me and it’s something that I will live with for the rest of my life.

"I have nothing but remorse for my role in what happened. I’ve apologised and explained as much as I can what happened before the Treasury Select Committee.”

Mr Ridley and Adam Applegarth, Northern Rock’s chief executive, were called in front of the Treasury Select Committee after the bank collapsed in 2007. Members of the committee blamed him for “damaging the good name of British banking”.

However, Mr Ridley said he and other bankers were shocked by the speed and severity of the financial crisis.

Northern Rock chief admits to 'catastrophic black mark'

basically your hero,… is “the big short” banker who gave exotic dancers, subprime loan(s) for five homes and a condo

The Big Short (2015) - Plot - IMDb

seriously,… the british equivalent of a “subprime banker” for science advise and leadership?!

ROTFLMAO

 

[Ender]

not throwing down the ad hominem personality card per se,… BUT you’re honestly suggesting catholics follow the example of a guy who had a big part to play in crashing the financial system and has a proven track record of not having the brains to see major problems?!

Well there you go; I didn’t know anything about the author. I was just commenting on what he said. I also didn’t realize that if a person does something foolish (or even dishonest) that nothing he says from then on can be true. Who knew? On the other hand, given that you said nothing whatever to refute his observations, I have to consider the possibility that even knaves and fools can, and do, occasionally tell the truth.

So I am quite willing to suggest that Catholics (and everyone else) believe whatever is true…regardless of its source. When you have a rebuttal to his comments get back to us.

 

[phaster]

Well there you go; I didn’t know anything about the author. I was just commenting on what he said. I also didn’t realize that if a person does something foolish (or even dishonest) that nothing he says from then on can be true. Who knew?

blah, blab, blah

awhile back realized,… continuing down the same old path answering endless muppet questions is a quagmire I wished to avoid

What do you think of climate change? Social Justice

when revelle and keeling introduced me to the idea of “man’s great geophysical experiment” and their fundamental research on CO2,… I came to realize they in a round about way were asking about the fermi paradox which is a profound philosophical question the paradox is based on a simple question that anyone looking out at the night sky has probably asked themselves,… does life exist in other parts of the universe or are we alone here on this pale blue dot anyway one takeaway from my exposure to…

What do you think of climate change? Social Justice

sigh,… attribution studies,… junk science?! in the YouTube video [Attribution of Extreme Weather Events in the Context of Climate Change: Report Release Briefing] w/ individuals presenting and doing a Q and A session at the US academy of sciences,… on the topic of attribution studies …so for example,… on one side w/ years of schooling/work-experience w/ diverse backgrounds like Dr. J. Marshall Shepherd who led the American Meteorological Society USN (Ret) Rear Admiral, Dr. D…

sigh,… so all I can do is point out the

…parable of the vineyard owner to see its application to our times [IN A PERIOD OF “CLIMATE CHANGE”]. Here is a brief summary:

A landowner set forth a vineyard with great care and lavish attention. He then entrusted it to tenant farmers. At harvest time, he sought his share of the produce. Yet instead of giving the owner what was due him, the tenant farmers refused, ridiculing, beating, and even killing the servants sent to collect his share. They end by killing the landowner’s own son.

When Jesus asks his audience what they thought the owner would do in response, they replied that he would put the men to a wretched death and lease his vineyard to other tenants who would give him the produce at the proper time. Obviously, they did not realize that in the parable the Lord was actually describing them, and that such a judgment would be upon them unless they repented.

http://m.ncregister.com/blog/msgr-p...ent-and-we-must-heed-the-warnings-of-our-lady

bottom line,… may jesus along w/ your friends and family have mercy on your willfully ignorant soul for defiling gods creation and casting needless doubt on revelations (i.e. peer reviewed science papers) that have been uncovered by hard working diligent scientists

…or casting needless doubt by mindlessly repeating unsubstantiated opinions from a person w/ a history of doing something foolish (or even dishonest),… and who left a wake of destruction and suffering in many peoples lives,… all for of the lust of money and material objects

What do you think of climate change? Social Justice

How much understanding is there in the public at large about the mechanisms undergirding Magnetism? Gravity? Themodynamics? Why should we expect the general public to have much of an understanding of extremely complex scientific processes that aren’t particularly well-understood by the scientific community? actually the mechanisms that cause climate change is quite well understood using physics, math and chemistry,… and IMHO should be taught ASAP the inconvenient fact of the matter is fe…

What do you think of climate change? Social Justice

as I mentioned, as I see things,… people are being tempted by a false god in other words, we are all guilty of contributing to the problem of CO2 production,… since users of this forum should be familiar w/ the bible, thought I’d add a quote that seems apropo “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone” [John 8-7] WRT owners of smoke-belching factories, the problem is akin to what Jesus said to the rich ruler,… “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your p…

25 Important Bible Verses About Materialism (Awesome Truths)

 

[PetraG]

Can you allow for people who acknowledge that human beings are responsible for environmental care while not accepting AGW hysteria? Not all positions fit into neat little boxes.

Take yourself for instance…do you accept that ice ages and other atmospheric fluctuations have come and gone without human affectation?

There is no evidence that the CO2 content of the atmosphere has been anything near what it is now in the last half million years.

As a chemical engineer, can you appreciate the difference in a gas phase that is over 400 ppm CO2 instead of down around 250 ppm? Can you appreciate how the annual rate of increase in CO2 of 2.1 ppm is of concern compared to the 0.7 ppm increases typical even of the 1950s? Are you just willing to say, “well, we can’t know why the temperatures are fluctuating”? Oh c’mon!! That is what chemical engineers DO, is to figure out the chemistry of physical systems! I would think you are the last person who would throw his hands in the air and refuse to conclude (a) there are no reasonable suspects for the change and (b) there is no reason to believe that continuing current CO2 outputs and concurrent destruction of CO2 sinks is a safe course for those in stewardship of the system.

 

[PetraG]

“Climate change” is giving evolution a run for the money as the greatest hoax ever foisted upon mankind.

Fine. Where is your evidence that the climate isn’t changing?
If it is changing, what is your alternative hypothesis for the mechanism?
You don’t get to just say “I don’t buy it.” You have to be able to say “This mechanism fits the data better.”

Put up your evidence.

 

[Ender]

awhile back realized,… continuing down the same old path answering endless muppet questions is a quagmire I wished to avoid

Most of your problem arises from your unwillingness or inability to engage the actual arguments being made. You put out lengthy comments but virtually none of it relates to what has been said.

may jesus along w/ your friends and family have mercy on your willfully ignorant soul for defiling gods creation and casting needless doubt on revelations (i.e. peer reviewed science papers) that have been uncovered by hard working diligent scientists

Oh my. You apparently have run out of even non-arguments.

…or casting needless doubt by mindlessly repeating unsubstantiated opinions from a person w/ a history of doing something foolish (or even dishonest),… and who left a wake of destruction and suffering in many peoples lives,… all for of the lust of money and material objects

You clearly have a high (and totally unwarranted) opinion of the value of ad hominem assertions.

 

[Ender]

Fine. Where is your evidence that the climate isn’t changing?

Everyone (pretty much) acknowledges that the climate changes, naturally or otherwise, and that global temperatures are (thankfully) higher than they were 150 years ago.

If it is changing, what is your alternative hypothesis for the mechanism?

One doesn’t really need to offer his own hypothesis in order to assert that someone else’s hypothesis is full of…holes.

You don’t get to just say “I don’t buy it.” You have to be able to say “This mechanism fits the data better.”

No one has to say anything more than “You’re wrong because of A, B, and C.” Providing an alternative solution is not a necessary part of shooting down an invalid theory. I don’t need to understand the nature of electricity to reject the claim that lightning bolts are sparks from Thor’s hammer.

Put up your evidence.

Here’s an abstract from a paper just published this week with an alternative theory. Is it right? I have no clue, but let’s not pretend there aren’t alternatives to CO2.

Abstract. In this paper we will prove that GCM-models used in IPCC report AR5 fail to calculate the influences of the low cloud cover changes on the global temperature. That is why those models give a very small natural temperature change leaving a very large change for the contribution of the green house gases in the observed temperature. This is the reason why IPCC has to use a very large sensitivity to compensate a too small natural component. Further they have to leave out the strong negative feedback due to the clouds in order to magnify the sensitivity. In addition, this paper proves that the changes in the low cloud cover fraction practically control the global temperature.

 

[MichaelP3]

Well just like I wont hold it against a heart surgeon with regards to his knowledge on hearts. Just imagine how this guy will look at a person who tells him some stuff about hearts at times. Especially if that person was just reading the "understand hearts magazine ". I’ll probably think a bit further with regards to a persons knowledge of Chemical compounds if that is literally what is putting his food on the table and paying his mortgage.