What does God make of feminism?

[thomfra]

This …has to be the work of evil forces working to create hatred between men and women.

What is this hatred between men and women people keep going on about?

I’ve never seen in here where I live.

I do see a fair bit of woman bashing/feminist hatred on this board though. Funny that.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

oh so now you are going to focus on my typo. how typical.
45 million babies murdered is a discapable tragedy as a result of ignorance and selfishness and it needs to stop.

Eric_Olsen:

“How about God is not impressed with what popular opinion in our perverted secular is?” you suggest. This means you believe God is neither favorably impressed nor negatively impressed. In this case, God would have no opinion.

“ah…the old attack the typos and not the argument. nice try,” you snipe. Well, call me a nitpicker, but I find a significant difference between the numbers 45 million and 345 million. In answer to your developing comeback, 45 million lives lost to abortion is indeed a profound and despicable tragedy. *Just don’t downplay *your 300-million-life error. And yes, I do have problems with typographical errors on this forum - and we have all made them, including me - but care does need to be taken in posting so that one’s point can be made as clearly and emphatically as possible.

Is that a problem?

marietta

 

[Sair]

We are for a women’s right to choose what is best for her.

Thank you for expressing this incredibly simple - but also apparently incomprehensible to many people - concept: that women’s rights are human rights, and we should all have the freedom to make choices about how we live our lives - without being labelled “antifeminist” or “antifeminine”. God, after all, granted us all the freedom to choose. It is human beings themselves who deny this freedom.

 

[fix]

Thank you for expressing this incredibly simple - but also apparently incomprehensible to many people - concept: that women’s rights are human rights, and we should all have the freedom to make choices about how we live our lives - without being labelled “antifeminist” or “antifeminine”. God, after all, granted us all the freedom to choose. It is human beings themselves who deny this freedom.

Well, choosing what is wrong is not only not a right but a misuse of freedom.

 

[fix]

Then they are missing out on and encouraging, the amazing diversity of people.

And also some of those who oppose feminism fall close to seeing all women and all men as interchangeable,

For example, the man should be the breadwinner, so it doesn’t matter if another role would be more appropriate a particular man he should do the one prescribed by society. And it works the other way - if people believe that it a woman’s role to keep the house then if another division of labour suited a couple - forget about it.

But, are we simply speaking about certain tasks?

I am referring to fundamental issues like complementarity.

 

[onaquest]

Let’s look to the Blessed Virgin Mary the Mother of God and we might find our answer.

 

[marietta]

Eric_Olsen writes:

“oh so now you are going to focus on my typo. how typical.
45 million babies murdered is a discapable tragedy as a result of ignorance and selfishness and it needs to stop.”

Aside from the fact that the typo issue was extremely five minutes ago, you are certainly entitled to chip away at my point. I have apologized for erroneously borrowing one of your grand typographical errors from one thread and inserting it into another. There are gaffes which pique my interest and distill in my mind until your attitude is one big hieroglyph which needs careful dissection before I can digest your point.

Well, point taken. I understand your position regarding abortion and feminism. But 1) what are you personally doing to alleviate the ignorance with regard to abortion?, and 2) are you really trying to push the communication envelope with this “discapable tragedy” thing?

Shades of Fred Sanford.

marietta

 

[Sair]

Well, choosing what is wrong is not only not a right but a misuse of freedom.

Where is the virtue in choosing what is right when one is offered no choice?

 

[fix]

Where is the virtue in choosing what is right when one is offered no choice?

I am saying choosing evil, while possible, is misusing freedom.

There is no merit in doing evil. In fact, one is less free when choosing evil.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Earliest form of Feminism.
God did not make woman from the head of man to be above him, nor did He make woman from the feet of man, to be tranpled upon by him. But woman was made from the rib of man, his side. to be by his side. To walk side by side, as equal partners in life.

Amen to that!

 

[SpiritMeadow]

When I hear or see the term “fairer sex”, I remember the generation when many men tipped their hats at women, opened doors for them, were chivalrous, and basically treated women like queens, and I long for its return. Of course it still happens to women who are open to receive it. I have a saying, “If we are rude to gentlemen, we may end up with barbarians.” And so, in many cases, we did. Many a rude man has been treated rudely.

In the newspaper, quite a few years ago, was a story about a man on a bus who got up to give a woman his seat. She took the seat, but preceeded to call him a male chauvinist pig for doing it. Women like that get what they deserve, but the tragedy is that they make it hard for the rest of us.

Indeed the world you describe did exist. In a few places for a few years. You sadly mistake a golden “history” you remember as one shared by most people. It simply is not and was not true for most people. But I would agree, there were a few years following WWII and before the Cold war when we delighted in the perfect ozzie and harriet lives.

 

[onmyknees]

Thank you for expressing this incredibly simple - but also apparently incomprehensible to many people - concept: that women’s rights are human rights, and we should all have the freedom to make choices about how we live our lives - without being labelled “antifeminist” or “antifeminine”. God, after all, granted us all the freedom to choose. It is human beings themselves who deny this freedom.

What about the human rights of the most innocent and defenseless, the unborn babies? Do you oppose the laws that are in place to protect society from criminals,murderers? Please don’t tell me that is about the women’s body. This is selfish. I thought Jesus taught us to love everyone and to die to self. We do have freedom to choose good or evil and in our hearts we know what is intrinsically evil. I agree with fix that we become less free when we choose evil. Sin always harms the sinner more that anyone else.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

concept: that women’s rights are human rights, and we should all have the freedom to make choices

And what choice does in the infant in the womb have?

This is the reason abortion is a human rights issue: we hold that all men and women are created equal, have certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Now tell me: In an abortion, one person (mother) --sometimes two people (mother and father, mother and grandmother, mother and friend, etc.)–‘choose’ to kill that baby. The baby has no choice. None whatsoever. Where is that child’s freedom to make a choice? Why is it denied to him? He is as human as you and I. He is no ‘less’ human than a person newborn --the newborn cannot ‘survive on his own.’ The newborn cannot speak. The only difference between a newborn and a child destroyed in the womb is a matter of, literally, a few weeks (a 3 month old infant versus a 9 month old infant --14 weeks gestation versus 40 weeks gestation–equals 26 weeks. 6 months.

6 months. . .26 weeks. . .182 days.

That is the difference between life and death. That is the biggest stumbling block to the life of a child in the womb. . .the refusal, the inconvenience, whatever, of a mother refusing to have the child remain in her womb for 182 days past the ‘abortion’ point so that the child may be born and have a chance to live.

 

[Sair]

What about the human rights of the most innocent and defenseless, the unborn babies?

I am fairly certain I have not said I am pro-abortion. I would never have one myself. But nor do I presume to be in a position to judge others for the choices they make. I, for example, have never been raped (for which I am of course thankful) so how could I possibly understand what it would be like to be carrying a rapist’s child? I am also lucky to be in a position where I would be capable of giving a child a decent life with opportunities. It is unwise to assume that people make choices out of purely selfish motives. Their reasons may be more compelling than we know.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Their reasons may be more compelling than we know.

What reason is ‘more compelling’ than a child’s right to life?

If the mother were, unquestionably, going to die if the pregnancy continues (an extreme statistical rarity), then the doctors may try to save her life even if the result is that the child dies. . . because that (double effect) means that if nothing is done, the child would die anyway (as soon as the mother died). Considering the state of neonatal medicine and obstetrics today, in many cases where the mother is in sudden danger of death, the child can be delivered and can even, as young as 22 weeks gestation, live. At least there is a chance.

So. . .we have pretty much taken care of the only reason where there might be the UNINTENDED result of the child dying, in trying to save the life of the mother, where the child would have then died anyway as the mother died.

What other ‘compelling reason’ can you give for there to be any question of the child being put into a position where the child “might” die let alone abortion’s position where the child MOST CERTAINLY dies?

 

[Sair]

I am still mystified as to how my original posts were assumed to be about my opinion regarding abortion. I had not so much as mentioned it, and was immediately jumped upon and accused of being pro-murder.

I wonder, are people genuinely scared that if women are allowed the same rights of choice and self-determination as men, the end result will be blanket abortions across the Western world? Or is the automatic equation of feminism with abortion merely the last line of defence for the embattled patriarchy?

Feminism, at its core, is about allowing women to be fully human - to allow them rights that men have taken for granted for most of Western history. It is unfortunate that feminism has become so closely associated with abortion activism that some people can’t separate the philosophy from the practices of certain individuals.

 

[onmyknees]

I am still mystified as to how my original posts were assumed to be about my opinion regarding abortion. I had not so much as mentioned it, and was immediately jumped upon and accused of being pro-murder.

I wonder, are people genuinely scared that if women are allowed the same rights of choice and self-determination as men, the end result will be blanket abortions across the Western world? Or is the automatic equation of feminism with abortion merely the last line of defence for the embattled patriarchy?

Feminism, at its core, is about allowing women to be fully human - to allow them rights that men have taken for granted for most of Western history. It is unfortunate that feminism has become so closely associated with abortion activism that some people can’t separate the philosophy from the practices of certain individuals.

 

[onmyknees]

Sair,
I’m not scared of women having equal rights. You seem to think that it is not ok to judge evil actions (abortion). Jesus told us to judge the sin not the sinner. He will judge the sinner. And it is a sin to just stand by and not do anything when millions of babies are being murdered. I agree with Tantum ergo that there is no just reason to kill an innocent baby. You say that we don’t know others feelings or reasons. It doesn’t matter. It is still an intrinsically evil act that takes away the babies human right to live. I know a family whose teenage daughter was raped and pregnant with the rapists child. The family knew they would not kill this innocent child. They adopted this baby and have since adopted more. We cannot have this kind of heroic virtue on our own, but I believe that with prayer and God’s grace anything is possible.

 

[Salonika]

I am still mystified as to how my original posts were assumed to be about my opinion regarding abortion. I had not so much as mentioned it, and was immediately jumped upon and accused of being pro-murder.

If you continue to post (and I look forward to your future posts) this will not be the only time that such a thing will happen to you. In my earlier posts on this thread I was very careful not to comment on women and the Catholic priesthood because I wanted a wider discussion but there were assumptions about what they were and comments were made and advice given.

Very well put.

 

[marietta]

Originally Posted by Sair:

“Where is the virtue in choosing what is right when one is offered no choice?”

Thank you.

marietta