What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?

[tasso]

Sorry, I am NOT an immigrant. I was born and raised in this country. What happened when this country was founded is of no importance to the debate on illegal immigration in this day and age.
:heart:Blyss

Than what do you complain? You are actually justifying the “illegal” immigrants, because their children will say exactly what you are saying right now, won’t they?

For all the people who complain about how awfully we settled this country…should remember…what would be the alternative of we hadn’t?

Sounds like a John Wayne quote. Actually, number one would be less polution in the world, possibly a better chance for the world to survive the next couple of years. America is still the worst polluter in the world, closely followed by China. A problem that I believe would be lessened if America (and the rest of the world) would become less consum orientated and rather shared with the suffering in the rest of the world by accepting a lower standard of living. Do we really need a living standard to afford two cars and big houses that use vast amounts of fuels? If America lowered their standards of living and help poorer countries to raise theirs it would stop being a prime target for Immigration. So, not borders and immigration control are the answer to the problem, but good old fashioned love. Love your neighbour, as the bible teaches.

Surely…people would not be breaking down our doors to get here would they? All the great contributions made to this wolrd by Americans would not have happened. All the great things this country has done for the wolrd over the centuriesd would not have happened. We would not have been able to save Europe from the onslaught of WW2…and the list goes on and on.

I don’t know what you really saved Europe from. By the time the Allies (and they consisted not only of Americans, just for your information ) intervened, Germany already killed most of the Jews. So, not the fate of the Jews was the prime reason for WW2 but internal security. Germany became a threat to the rest of the world. The same as today with Irak. It wasn’t the atrocities committed by Saddam that prompted the Irak war but the threat to personal security.

America has been and still is in most of the rest of the world a symbol of aggression. Sure, it is also a symbol of freedom for many as some believe that in America all our dreams come true. And that is why people want to immigrate to America, and why not. But America till today has not dealt with it’s past unlike Germany (that not only publicly repented of their atrocities comittet against the Jews, but also made reparations) and until America does this, it remains a country of “illigal” Immigrants who still don’t have the decency to give proper respect to the Native Population, whose land America really is. In fact America justifies violance because it doesn’t think anything wrong with the way it treated the Native Americans. The message America sends out is loud and clear: Don’t ask, just take what you want from those who are less powerful than you.

Now, that you are more or less justifying the atrocities comittet by your ancestors and firmly believe yourself now to be an American, you now want to condemn those who do the same today? At least immigrants today don’t ransack whole cities and areas and kill all the inhabitants thereof. They just want to be given the same chance to a decent living standard as every person on this planet deserves. Nobody has the right to deny them this.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Than what do you complain? You are actually justifying the “illegal” immigrants, because their children will say exactly what you are saying right now, won’t they?

Complaining? LOL…my ancestors came here LEGALLY, through legal channels. The children of illegals, while if born here are citizens…IMO…should NOT be. The amendment to the Constitution…does not diorectly pertain to children of ILLEGALS when it was written. It should have been amended long ago…and hopefully…at some point in the near future…will be. An illegal woman should not be rewarded by having her child be a citizen just by sliding across the border and plopping the child out. That is tantamount to fraud in my book.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

**Tasso…I am, not about to sit here and defend my country. I believe this is a great country and you are America bashing and that is not what this thread is about. If you wish to show your hatred for my country…do it on another thread. …or better yet…keep it to yourself…I doubt many Americans want hear about how you feel about this country.

You never answered my question that I put to you. If I were illegally sneaking into Britain…what would they do with me?

:heart:Blyss**

 

[Hastrman]

It costs me having to listen to thoroughly unintelligent arguments on both sides.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

It costs me having to listen to thoroughly unintelligent arguments on both sides.

No one is forcing you…are they?

:heart:Blyss

 

[tasso]

**Tasso…I am, not about to sit here and defend my country. I believe this is a great country and you are America bashing and that is not what this thread is about. If you wish to show your hatred for my country…do it on another thread. …or better yet…keep it to yourself…I doubt many Americans want hear about how you feel about this country.

You never answered my question that I put to you. If I were illegally sneaking into Britain…what would they do with me?

:heart:Blyss**

Did I say that Britain is any better than the US? And where did you get this notion from, I’m bashing America? I agree with you, that America is a great country, it just isn’t your country and you should remember this well. If you descendants of those European Immigrants would only remember to treat this country with more respect like the Native Americans did there possibly wouldn’t be such a global crisis as we have today.

The one good thing you brought to this country is the Christian faith, but you forgot what this faith is really about. The Missionaries did a great work in America preaching a message of love, but from the moment the message was conceived, the seeds of the evil one were sown amongst the good seed. Where Natives converted to the Christian Faith they soon learned, that many of those that came with the missionaries were anything else but followers of Christ.

True Christianity has no time for this paranoia you describe, this myth that resources are scarce and we have to protect ourselves from the aliens so they don’t take away our jobs, houses and eat up all our food .

The bible teaches that we shall be content with food and a roof above our head. We don’t need to have all the luxury we think we must have. Christ also teaches us that we should share what we have and love our neighbour. Immigration Rules as they stand currently in your and my country are a direct violation against these commandmends of Christ.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Sounds like a John Wayne quote. Actually, number one would be less polution in the world, possibly a better chance for the world to survive the next couple of years***. America is still the worst polluter in the world, closely followed by China. A problem that I believe would be lessened if America ***(and the rest of the world) would become less consum orientated and rather shared with the suffering in the rest of the world by accepting a lower standard of living. Do we really need a living standard to afford two cars and big houses that use vast amounts of fuels? If America lowered their standards of living and help poorer countries to raise theirs it would stop being a prime target for Immigration. So, not borders and immigration control are the answer to the problem, but good old fashioned love. Love your neighbour, as the bible teaches.

I don’t know what you really saved Europe from. By the time the Allies (and they consisted not only of Americans, just for your information ) intervened, Germany already killed most of the Jews. So, not the fate of the Jews was the prime reason for WW2 but internal security. Germany became a threat to the rest of the world. The same as today with Irak. It wasn’t the atrocities committed by Saddam that prompted the Irak war but the threat to personal security.

America has been and still is in most of the rest of the world a symbol of aggression. Sure, it is also a symbol of freedom for many as some believe that in America all our dreams come true. And that is why people want to immigrate to*** America***, and why not. But ***America till ***today has not dealt with it’s past unlike Germany (that not only publicly repented of their atrocities comittet against the Jews, but also made reparations) and until America does this, it remains a country of “illigal” Immigrants who still don’t have the decency to give proper respect to the Native Population, whose land America really is. In fact America justifies violance because it doesn’t think anything wrong with the way it treated the Native Americans. The message America sends out is loud and clear: Don’t ask, just take what you want from those who are less powerful than you.

Now, that you are more or less justifying the atrocities comittet by your ancestors and firmly believe yourself now to be an American, you now want to condemn those who do the same today? At least immigrants today don’t ransack whole cities and areas and kill all the inhabitants thereof. They just want to be given the same chance to a decent living standard as every person on this planet deserves. Nobody has the right to deny them this.

THIS is America bashing and you know it.

 

[pnewton]

If you descendants of those European Immigrants would only remember to treat this country with more respect like the Native Americans did there possibly wouldn’t be such a global crisis as we have today.
.

This is a thread on immigration, not global crises, myths and conjectures. That would require its own thread so we can discuss why a global crisis can not be casual assumed.

 

[pnewton]

It costs me having to listen to thoroughly unintelligent arguments on both sides.

Straight and to the point. I was going to say it if your didn’t. No one profits by hit and run insult.

 

[tasso]

This is a thread on immigration, not global crises, myths and conjectures. That would require its own thread so we can discuss why a global crisis can not be casual assumed.

You are right, but my point being, that Immigration is not the cause of the problems in America but rather the greed which is also a contributing factor why America and other countries have such strong immigration rules, trying to protect resources that are thought to be scarce instead of sharing them with the rest of the world and finding ways how to bring balance into the econonmy of the world. We all have to ask ourselves how we can go to sleep at night knowing that somewhere in the world people are starving to death and why we are so concerned with our little jobs and homes instead of reaching out and working towards bringing an end to the misery of others. The bible teaches, that perfect love casts out fear. If America were more love motivated it wouldn’t have to fear Immigrants coming into the country taking away their jobs, homes and social benefits. It is time that people start to feel ashamed, when they have food to throw away, live in big houses and have two cars and spending fortunes on entertainment when our neighbours hardly have enough food to get by every day. Instead of worrying about “Illegal” Immigrants we should rather work towards lowering our living standard expectations so we can contribute to the wellbeing of others. Love your neighbour is the commandmend of Christ, not to seek our own comfort and protect it from them.

God bless,

 

[Walt_Oliver]

Please get back on topic. Thanks.

 

[tasso]

THIS is America bashing and you know it.

You are right, I really should have used the term “US” since Mexicans, Brazilians, etc are all Americans, too, aren’t they? But I’m not bashing the US either and I’m sorry if you feel that way and you can’t deny, that the US is seen as an aggressor by many people outside of it. But maybe your news does filter out a lot of what is going on in the rest of the world, I don’t know. And you can’t deny that the US hasn’t until today come to terms with it’s violant past unlike the Germans who did apologise and do reparations. What the European Immigrants did to the Natives is on the same level of what the Germans did to the Jews. If I would try to defend Germany for killing millions of Jews there would be an uproar and right so. And there should be an equal uproar when “Americans” try to defend their violant past. And some of that violant past is not that far in the past like the war with Mexico (1846-1848) where you stole part of their land because they wouldn’t sell it to you so the southerners could extend their slave trade.

If you wonder why there is so much “Illegal” Immigration, you should maybe look a little bit more at your history. In my opinion it is just another way for continuing the slave trade, only that the slaves are now called “Illegals”. They work for slave wages because they are not given the proper rights to be citizens as they deserve. Were the Immigration rules fairer you wouldn’t have so many peolpe trying to come in “illegally”. But I believe that the US doesn’t want to relax the rules for the same reasons Britain doesn’t want to either. The Illegal market is the one area where still slaves can be bought for the labours nobody else wants to do at wages nobody else would be even willing to work for. Here in Britain we have even “Illegal” Immigrants working at the Home Office. Why? Because they are cheap labour. They are the slaves of today. And they are kept that way by making them feel that they are criminals.

To stop “illegal” Immigration you have to make it “legal” and only then will you stop this depressing cycle you spoke about where “Illegals” accept lower wages which brings down the wage expectations of everybody else in that country, etc. If everybody has the right to come in legally into the US things will eventually balance out and the world will become a fairer place. Right now the Western World has a far to high living standard compared to the rest of the world. This living standard is build on the back of those who hardly can feed themselves.

Once the West stops manufacturing products in third-world countries because it is cheaper but starts to pay everybody the wage they deserve through fair trading the economies in the rest of the world will improve. Westerners will have to pay more money for their consumer articles and the rest of the world will receive more revenue income which improves their living standard and they won’t feel they have to come to the West in order to improve it. Also more manufacturing industries will remain in their own countries thus providing more work for their own people (including the US).

If I knew, that my labour would only make others rich but I myself would stay hungry, even I would want to go where the money went. But when I can see, that what I labour gives me a proper reward, I would have no desire to emmigrate for economic reasons.

 

[Hey_Jude]

Interesting story that shows how other countries handle the same problems we’re having:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6314081.stm

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6269655.stm

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

You are right, I really should have used the term “US” since Mexicans, Brazilians, etc are all Americans, too, aren’t they? But I’m not bashing the US either and I’m sorry if you feel that way and you can’t deny, that the US is seen as an aggressor by many people outside of it. But maybe your news does filter out a lot of what is going on in the rest of the world, I don’t know.

I think it is rather a silly argument…yes…all people who live in the Americas are “Americans”…maybe we should call ourselves USAers? LOL…That is much along the same line as people of Europe being called Europeans although there are English and French etc.
But not all residents of the AMERICAS…are citizens of the United States just like not all Europeans are citizens of Great Britain.

I also do not agree with all of the foreign policies of this country but those have nothing at all to do with our immigration policies at all.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

If you wonder why there is so much “Illegal” Immigration, you should maybe look a little bit more at your history. In my opinion it is just another way for continuing the slave trade, only that the slaves are now called “Illegals”. They work for slave wages because they are not given the proper rights to be citizens as they deserve. Were the Immigration rules fairer you wouldn’t have so many peolpe trying to come in “illegally”. But I believe that the US doesn’t want to relax the rules for the same reasons Britain doesn’t want to either. The Illegal market is the one area where still slaves can be bought for the labours nobody else wants to do at wages nobody else would be even willing to work for. Here in Britain we have even “Illegal” Immigrants working at the Home Office. Why? Because they are cheap labour. They are the slaves of today. And they are kept that way by making them feel that they are criminals. .

Ha, ha…the illegals who come here come through their own volition and surely you cannot compare them to the slaves who were brought her much against their will? Oh my gosh!! Our immigration laws ARE fair…but it seems some people do not wish to follow the rules…they feel they are above the rules. They put themselves before others. I am firmly against employers in this country hiring illegals and anyone who does should be fined heavily and then sent to jail after the first instance. I do not buy for a minute that this country would suffer greatly if there were no illegals to do the work that they say NO American (USA born) would do. That has never been proven and is just a mnantra used to scare people into accepting this dire situation. As for the illegals.,…if they are being so mistreated here…they can find their way home just as they came here. Let’s see how many do on their own. Ha, ha.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

From Jude’s link in post #129…

But Hong Kong mothers say the influx has strained medical facilities.
Much like the illegal women are doing in the border areas.

In future, any pregnant woman coming from China without a hospital booking will be turned back at the border.
Gosh…if Hong Kong can do this…why can’t we?

Hospitals in Hong Kong are setting up a centralised booking system to give priority to local women, and impose a quota on the number of mainland mothers allowed in.
This is a great idea and i applaud Hong Kong for putting the well-being of their own people first and foremost.

The territory’s medical facilities have been greatly strained by the growing numbers of women arriving - often at the last minute - to give birth in Hong Kong.
**Sounds much like the illegal women coming across the border just in time to plop out a child here. **

Chinese people born in Hong Kong automatically gain local residency rights, including to health and education.
Just like here

Hong Kong has the right idea…

:heart:Blyss