What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?

[Texas_Roofer]

Facts to support your position Tex?

:heart:Blyss

Fact needed to support a non existing event ? :umh:

Look at this if there are 10 million illegal immigrates and we assume 2/3 of them are working. And assume their gross income is about $35,000. And assume they make that money under the table, and fail to report the income (free of federal taxes). So does that help the US? yes, the example indicates a over 233 billion in US economic growth and over 35 billion in user taxes. If we change to a guest worker status the taxes increase to over 93 billion. BTW a guest worker would not be guaranteed the same social services as a person becoming an American citizen through amnesty.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Fact needed to support a non existing event ? :umh:

Look at this if there are 10 million illegal immigrates and we assume 2/3 of them are working. And assume their gross income is about $35,000. And assume they make that money under the table, and fail to report the income (free of federal taxes). So does that help the US? yes, the example indicates a over 233 billion in US economic growth and over 35 billion in user taxes. If we change to a guest worker status the taxes increase to over 93 billion. BTW a guest worker would not be guaranteed the same social services as a person becoming an American citizen through amnesty.

Well, Tex…if you disagree with the numbers, then provide your own sources. There are many illegals who are guilty of killing Americans…and if you dispute what is presented to you, then find your own source and back up your words. It is not enough to say, it doesn’t happen, because we all know it DOES!. Proof, please…

I would be for guest worker program if we could guarantee that they would return home…but I would bet that once they got over here we could not get them to go home. That is a crazy program. Sure, they come over on a guest worker program…and then they leave? Sure.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Well, Tex…if you disagree with the numbers, then provide your own sources. There are many illegals who are guilty of killing Americans…and if you dispute what is presented to you, then find your own source and back up your words. It is not enough to say, it doesn’t happen, because we all know it DOES!. Proof, please…

I would be for guest worker program if we could guarantee that they would return home…but I would bet that once they got over here we could not get them to go home. That is a crazy program. Sure, they come over on a guest worker program…and then they leave? Sure.

:heart:Blyss

Would that be the same as proving the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and Big Foot does not exist? Maybe the object with this line of questioning is to hide from the past statement? The thread is “What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?” I have yet to see an answer that can with stand scrutiny. maybe the real answer is illegal immigration has no cost to “me”

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Would that be the same as proving the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and Big Foot does not exist? Maybe the object with this line of questioning is to hide from the past statement? The thread is “What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?” I have yet to see an answer that can with stand scrutiny. maybe the real answer is illegal immigration has no cost to “me”

No, Tex…I have provided sources that prove illegal immigration costs every American…but you have NOTHING to refute them. You have nothing to add to YOUR argument. I will gladly wait for you to come up with something and we can discuss it. But you cannot win your argument by just saying…“Your proof is not adequate…or it doesn’t exist.” When you do that you need something to back up your assertions. I have time…

:heart:Blyss

 

[Texas_Roofer]

People are born all over the world, these people come from God. These people grow to all sizes shapes and colors. All through time some people look for ways to exclude others from being God’s children. Some choose skin color, other chose religion, some choose beauty, and others choose simple lines drawn in sand, on mountains, across rivers. When one man attempts to subjugate another man he commits a sin.

 

[pnewton]

When one man attempts to subjugate another man he commits a sin.

I do not think the arguement is subjugating illegal immigrants. The Church has upheld the rights of nations to draw these line and regulate immigration. Disagreeing on immigration law is not a sin.

 

[tasso]

There is no such thing as “illegal” immigrants, just immigrants. Some immigrants are welcomed happily (usually if they come from rich families and have lots of money) and others are not welcomed (usually if they come from poor backgrounds). This is discrimination in my opinion.

People from poor background often don’t have a “legal” chance to ever meet the criteria to get out of their misery and start a new life with new hopes in another area or country. Rich people on the other hand can mostly choose where they want to travel and live.

America like many other countries still discrimates against the poor. They live in fear that if they open the doors to the poor and welcome them, it will depress their living standard. But how many in well-off countries like Amerika really ask, what their high standard of living is really based upon. If these rich countries wouldn’t have exploited the poor so much in the past, there wouldn’t be such a demand for people to want to live there to improve their condition.

Anyway, Americans should remember, that they are Immigrants themselves. And, judging by their own standards, “illegal” ones as such, as they pushed their way in through violance. What motivated their fathers to come to America? Wasn’t it often because of bad economic and policical conditions in their own countries (England, Ireland, Scotland, etc)? Did the Fathers not come in exactly for the same reasons why “illegal” immigrants want to come to the US from Mexico, etc?

So, what about asking about the cost to the Native Americans for all those immigrants from the past who are still here and haven’t returned back to Europe, where they came from? These Native Americans are still often denied their rights by a people that don’t really belong here.

Every person on plant Earth has the right to live where they want to live. Instead of harrassing people because they are poor, we are as Christians obliged to welcome them with open arms, even if this means, that we have to lower our living standards. What right to we have to high living standards when our neighbours are starving in other countries? In fact, it becomes today even more and more obvious how our high living standard directly affects the well being of our neighbours. Not only through social injustice but also through the climate change caused by the pollution which we create through our way of life (or the American Life, as you call it in America).

America needs to stop treading other people like second class citizens and start to clean their own act. It is high time that people are put before living standards. Everybody has a right to a decent standard of living. Like the Fathers in the bible, where it was said, that those who had much need to share with those who have little. When God led the Israelites through the desert, Manna was given every day at the right amount for each person. He who collected more had to give the surplus to him who collected less. The person who stored Manna up for the next day found it to be rotting away and somebody somewhere went hungry.

Americans and we in Europe are like the ones who store up Manna for the future and it is rotting away while others are starving. And we prevent those who are hungry to get to our Manna because of our greed. We erect walls around our Manna so nobody but us can touch it and don’t notice, how it is rotting in our midst and causing pollution affecting the whole planet earth. In the end, we won’t even have Manna left for ourselves, because what we try to protect with our Immigration policies has become the beginning of our doom.

Jesus taught to love our neighbour, not to border him out. As a Christian Nation, America should start heeding to the teachings of Christ instead of walking according to their own devices. Like Moses they should choose suffering with the poor instead of the riches of Egypt. Otherwise, Jesus will speak about America as He spoke about the Pharisees, that outwardly they serve God but inwardly are a brood of vipers, that they observe outward rituals like the washing of hands but they forget to do good to the poor, to have compassion for their neighbours.

God bless

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I do not think the arguement is subjugating illegal immigrants. The Church has upheld the rights of nations to draw these line and regulate immigration. Disagreeing on immigration law is not a sin.

I agree with you however the name of the thread is “Re: What Does Illegal Immigration Cost Me?” Illegal immigration has a net benefit to the US, thus its cost is negative. If you look at the other threads they often have worse names. If you have read the threads you read some rough accusations. Accusation is all there is no facts to support those accusations. My opinion is the only reason this thread exist is to reinforce the attempts to subjugate this class of people. We have been told these people are social free loaders, drains on our economy, have excessive murder rates, none of that is true. It seems rather clear the hope is to develop and spread a false image of these people why? I think it is to encourage bad treatment of these people. In summary both spreading the false accusations and using such to set up a future of unneeded violence against any group of people are forms of subjugation and sins. Hope that clarifies my stance on this issue

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

People are born all over the world, these people come from God. These people grow to all sizes shapes and colors. All through time some people look for ways to exclude others from being God’s children. Some choose skin color, other chose religion, some choose beauty, and others choose simple lines drawn in sand, on mountains, across rivers. When one man attempts to subjugate another man he commits a sin.

Commits a sin? Are you joking? When did it become a “sin” to regulate through immigration LAWS who has the right and who does NOT have the RIGHT to enter a sovereign country? If you want to bring SIN into the mix…then it is the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT who is the ones commintting sins, by breaking the LAWS…the just LAWS of another country for personal gain.

Tex…lets say you have a nice home that you have sacrificed to make a place of happiness and joy and safety for your family. Does that give the right for someone who is not in your family to break through your doors and make themselves at home…because they like what you have and they want a piece of it for themselves?* What would you think about that?* I am sure with your views that you would make them quite welcome …NOT call the police and offer them the best bed in the house. Right?

We are all God’s children but we also have free will…the ability to know right from wrong and to take take from what is NOT yours. These ILLEGAL immigrants would not be excluded if they came here through legal means…unless they are criminals. Countries all over the world say who and who cannot come into their country…why should the USA be any different?

Your argument is not valid in this context and I am still waiting for any proof you have to disprove ANYTHING I have stated in this thread…tick…tock…

:heart:Blyss

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Commits a sin? Are you joking? When did it become a “sin” to regulate through immigration LAWS who has the right and who does NOT have the RIGHT to enter a sovereign country? If you want to bring SIN into the mix…then it is the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT who is the ones commintting sins, by breaking the LAWS…the just LAWS of another country for personal gain.

Tex…lets say you have a nice home that you have sacrificed to make a place of happiness and joy and safety for your family. Does that give the right for someone who is not in your family to break through your doors and make themselves at home…because they like what you have and they want a piece of it for themselves?* What would you think about that?* I am sure with your views that you would make them quite welcome …NOT call the police and offer them the best bed in the house. Right?

We are all God’s children but we also have free will…the ability to know right from wrong and to take take from what is NOT yours. These ILLEGAL immigrants would not be excluded if they came here through legal means…unless they are criminals. Countries all over the world say who and who cannot come into their country…why should the USA be any different?

Your argument is not valid in this context and I am still waiting for any proof you have to disprove ANYTHING I have stated in this thread…tick…tock…

:heart:Blyss

Let me guess, umh, you do not not know of a single illegal immigrate whom

• “break through your doors and make themselves at home…because they like what you have and they want a piece of it for themselves?” *

Is that not always the case.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

There is no such thing as “illegal” immigrants, just immigrants. Some immigrants are welcomed happily (usually if they come from rich families and have lots of money) and others are not welcomed (usually if they come from poor backgrounds). This is discrimination in my opinion.

Yes…there ARE such things as “illegal” immigrants. They are the ones who come into this country in violation of our immigration laws. The laws were put in place and they have to be abided by. Just because one doesn’t LIKE the law doesn’t mean that someone has the right to break them to suit themselves. I would want to see PROOF where you state that some immigrants are welcomed by means of their money. If that were true…and I am not aaying it is or is not…that still does not give the right for ILLEGALS to break into this country. Two wrongs do NOT make a right. As for discrimination…heck…there are Americans being discriminated against in this country. In fact…some Americans who are not bi-lingual in Spanish are being discriminated against in getting hired for jobs. THAT is not right in this country.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Let me guess, umh, you do not not know of a single illegal immigrate whom

• “break through your doors and make themselves at home…because they like what you have and they want a piece of it for themselves?” *

Is that not always the case.

You are right…the ILLEGALS always break through the borders of this country to take what is not theirs…and that is residence in this country. You are finally getting the drift of what I am saying Tex…

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

.

People from poor background often don’t have a “legal” chance to ever meet the criteria to get out of their misery and start a new life with new hopes in another area or country. Rich people on the other hand can mostly choose where they want to travel and live.

America like many other countries still discrimates against the poor. They live in fear that if they open the doors to the poor and welcome them, it will depress their living standard. But how many in well-off countries like Amerika really ask, what their high standard of living is really based upon. If these rich countries wouldn’t have exploited the poor so much in the past, there wouldn’t be such a demand for people to want to live there to improve their condition.

Sooo…what is so new about this? People who are Americans citizens often do not have the ability because of their means to choose where they want or to travel. Sometimes good old Americans work all their lives at hard jobs and never get the nicest homes…or never get to travel beyond the boundaries of their city limits? So…what is the big deal about that? That is life and sometimes we have to accept what is our lot in life. Not everyone is born rich and with means…it doesn’t matter where you hail from…that is the way it is and it goes for Americans as well as Mexicans…or…on and on…

This country…***does not ***owe a decent standard of living to every man, woman and child in this world. That isn’t feasible and really doesn’t make any sense to say that we do. We, as a country have welcomed millions of immigrants over the years and we still welcome many every year. But…we, as a country would be well within our rights to stop immigration altogether if we so chose. But, we do not. People throughout the world should look to their own governments to try to better themselves…because…plain and simple…we cannot take everyone who wants to come here. As for our standard of living…you betcha…I don’t want this country letting people in who will depress our standard of living…because then we will end up in the same boat and a country’s first allegiance should be to the well-being of its own citizens.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Anyway, Americans should remember, that they are Immigrants themselves. And, judging by their own standards, “illegal” ones as such, as they pushed their way in through violance. What motivated their fathers to come to America? Wasn’t it often because of bad economic and policical conditions in their own countries (England, Ireland, Scotland, etc)? Did the Fathers not come in exactly for the same reasons why “illegal” immigrants want to come to the US from Mexico, etc?

This is the same old tired mantra I hear so often from people trying to push illegal immigration down our throats. Sorry, I am NOT an immigrant. I was born and raised in this country. What happened when this country was founded is of no importance to the debate on illegal immigration in this day and age. For all the people who complain about how awfully we settled this country…should remember…what would be the alternative of we hadn’t? Surely…people would not be breaking down our doors to get here would they? All the great contributions made to this wolrd by Americans would not have happened. All the great things this country has done for the wolrd over the centuriesd would not have happened. We would not have been able to save Europe from the onslaught of WW2…and the list goes on and on.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Every person on plant Earth has the right to live where they want to live. Instead of harrassing people because they are poor, we are as Christians obliged to welcome them with open arms, even if this means, that we have to lower our living standards.
America needs to stop treading other people like second class citizens and start to clean their own act. It is high time that people are put before living standards. Everybody has a right to a decent standard of living.

No…everyone does not have the right to choose where they want to,live if it is in violation of anothers’ laws. I may choose where I want to live in this country…IF…I can afford it…or if I like the area. There are many reasons a person can and cannot choose where to live. But…just because a person lives in another country does not give them the right to say…they want to live somewhere unless they abide by the immigration laws of that country. We are obliged to take NO ONE unless we want to…

America…doesn’t treat people like second class citizens just because a person is from a country that is not as rich. There is not country on the face of this earth who is more charitable to the poor in other countries than the USA. If we are so bad…why do millions try to get here every year? My gosh…there are people in this country who are poor and I don’t see anyone whining about their well-being. Maybe we should ask Japan to help us out in this country. I mean…don’t they owe us? Or Germany…don’t THEY owe us? Point is…we don’t owe anyone anything. We don’t owe our OWN citizens a decent standard of living…so why should we OWE it to someone from anotehr country? LOL

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

If you have read the threads you read some rough accusations. Accusation is all there is no facts to support those accusations. My opinion is the only reason this thread exist is to reinforce the attempts to subjugate this class of people. We have been told these people are social free loaders, drains on our economy, have excessive murder rates, none of that is true. It seems rather clear the hope is to develop and spread a false image of these people why? I think it is to encourage bad treatment of these people. In summary both spreading the false accusations and using such to set up a future of unneeded violence against any group of people are forms of subjugation and sins. Hope that clarifies my stance on this issue

Tex…I don’t think we are trying to subjugate anyone…these people come here of their own volition. You say that none of the accusations are true. Of course, they are…ILLEGALS are free loaders…some…some DO drain our economy…some do commit murder and commit violence at excessive rates. Those are not false images…any more than the image of a hard working…law abiding illegal is the norm. They are not law abiding because they have broken the law when they stepped foot onto the soil of the USA…so anything they do after that does NOT take away from the fact they ARE lawbreakers. I have nothing personally against hispanic people Tex…and they would be welcomed here IF they followed the rules we lay down for everyone who wants to come here. Tell me this…what makes them*** more important and their needs more urgent ***than those of someone from another part of the world…say India…who is waiting in line and abiding by the rules?

:heart:Blyss

 

[tasso]

Yes…there ARE such things as “illegal” immigrants. They are the ones who come into this country in violation of our immigration laws. The laws were put in place and they have to be abided by.
:heart:Blyss

Put in place by whom? The Native Americans or the “illegal” Immigrants form Europe who pushed the inhabitants out of the way and confined them in little areas called “Reservations”. More like Ghettos in my opinion, and I haven’t heard of any immigration laws issued out of there.

Just because one doesn’t LIKE the law doesn’t mean that someone has the right to break them to suit themselves. I would want to see PROOF where you state that some immigrants are welcomed by means of their money. If that were true…and I am not aaying it is or is not…that still does not give the right for ILLEGALS to break into this country.

I can’t speak much for American Immigration rules, but I know that they are not that much different than the British ones here (not surprising since most Americans are of british descent), and being married to a woman from Brazil, I have a lot of first hand experience on how people from poorer countries get treated like second class people. And I also know for a fact, that if you have money you have far less difficulties getting into the UK (and the US, I’m sure).

You made an interesting statement. Not sure if you actually thought about it:

that still does not give the right for ILLEGALS to break into this country

You are actually seeming to imply, that somebody is already an “ILLEGAL” before he even entered the country. So it is not just about people living “illegally” in the US, but about everybody that somehow fits within that category of “ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT” (possibly being from a poor background and a country like Mexico).

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Put in place by whom? The Native Americans or the “illegal” Immigrants form Europe who pushed the inhabitants out of the way and confined them in little areas called “Reservations”. More like Ghettos in my opinion, and I haven’t heard of any immigration laws issued out of there. .

LOL…so…now you are saying that we have no right to place immigration laws into effect? Does that just mean the USA or does that go for Britain too? It would seem to me that Britain has been a little TOO open in its immigration policies…

No…I agree that the Reservations are not the best situation, but just because of that doesn’t mean we have to let everyone in who wants to come here? Why would you think it would? Unfortunately…what goes on in Reservations are largely due to the problems created by the Native Americans themselves. We cannot make them change if they don’t want to. They also have to take responsibility for themselves.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Do you want to provide any quote from me where I have stated that? You will not find it. The ones who are ILLEGAL are the ones who come here who do not go through proper channels…and that doesn’t matter what country they are from.I assume you know the meaning of the word illegal and how it fits into the conversation regarding ILLEGAL immigration. I really should not have to explain?

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I can’t speak much for American Immigration rules, but I know that they are not that much different than the British ones here (not surprising since most Americans are of british descent), and being married to a woman from Brazil, I have a lot of first hand experience on how people from poorer countries get treated like second class people. And I also know for a fact, that if you have money you have far less difficulties getting into the UK (and the US, I’m sure).QUOTE]

Let’s say…I want to come to Britain to live and I come in by boat off the shores of Cornwall in the dead of the night. I steal someone’s SS card…or the british equivalent…and proceed to get a job…what would Britain do with me? LOL

:heart:Blyss