What does it mean to abide "in Christ?"

[SHW]

The problem with this is “justification” is not “redemption.” They’re two different things.

We individually receive the benefit (grace) of our redemption (Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross pays our debt for Original Sin) when we are baptized. We are also initially justified at this same time. Our personal sins up to this time are also all forgiven when we receive baptism. We are both redeemed and also first justified by Baptism. A sanctified person has no sin on his soul.

1 Corinthians 6:11 “And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”

We are redeemed (freed from Original Sin) and forgiven all personal sins by Baptism because we are sanctified (made holy) and justified (both redeemed and saved) when we are washed with the water and the word (I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.) We can be redeemed only once but we can be justified more than once.

Matthew 12:36-37 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Ephesians 5:26-27 “that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.”

We are sanctified and cleansed of both Original Sin and personal sins by baptism (washing of water by the word).

John 3:3-6 “Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you,** unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God**. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

Jesus is referring to the necessity of His baptism of water and the Spirit, not John’s baptism of water for repentance, when He speaks of being “born again.” We are born again by water and the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit actually moves into our souls to dwell within us at our Baptisms and we are thus sanctified by His grace.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”

Jesus stated that we must be born again by water and the Spirit. He is describing Baptism.

Acts 10:47-48 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.”

All are amazed that the Gentiles also received the Holy Spirit just as they themselves had at Pentecost. Gentiles are not the chosen people. Peter states that those who have received the Holy Spirit (we call this the Sacrament of Confirmation) ** must still be baptized with water in the name of the Lord.** (The “Lord” is all three persons of the Blessed Trinity.) The reason Peter commands this is because Baptism remits Original Sin and all personal sins. The Holy Spirit made an exception in the usual order of Sacraments in order to show Peter that Gentiles were to be baptized and become heirs with Christ.

Ephesians 3:6 “that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,”

Genesis 2:4, 8 “This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,… 8The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.”

The Lord God is comprised of all three persons of the Blessed Trinity. When we are baptized in the name of the Lord, it is in all three names just as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

We are made disciples (Christians) when we are baptized. But we must continue to be justified in order to inherit eternal life:

1 Timothy 4:16 “Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.”

Matthew 12:36-37 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

SHW

 

[ryanoneil]

Yes, by the faker, who is bitter, and hangs about spewing his bitterness. He stays in or near the fellowship and spreads wickedness, doubt, defilement.

To you, the significance of “defilement” is a loss of sonship, a loss of inheritance, a loss of justification, a loss of salvation, a loss, a loss, a loss; it’s all loss with you, it seems.

If there is no such thing as loss, then there is nothing to warn about.

Jesus and the NT writers preached salvation but they also taught loss of salvation so people weren’t fooled into “false” sense security.

The justified can be defiled, but they will never be defiled to the loss of the gifts God has given them. They are “protected by God through the faith He has given them.”

If they are protected then they cannot become defiled. People lose their faith and God’s protection everday. It is not God’s fault.

But is he talking about Christians, at all? That’s the important question.

I think the verse you cite, Heb. 10:29, references Christ (cf Jn 17:19).

That is an interesting observation. I will have to dig deeper.

Thank you.

 

[ryanoneil]

my friend ryan, your prob is that you rely on the law.the law wont save you. it condems you, and me

How about the law of Christ?

Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal 6:2)

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves. For my yoke is easy, and my burden light." (Mt 11:29-30)

I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (Jn 13:34-35)

Matthew 5:44-45

For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. (Rom 2:13)

This is a reference to the law of Christ.

 

[ryanoneil]

Most definitely! But I don’t think you know the fundamental difference between the principle of law and the principle of grace. The latter is what salvation is based on, entirely: "For BY GRACE you have been saved through faith…

We cannot do “works of the law” to obligate God. We are not in a debtor/creditor relationship with God. He owes us nothing.
Instead, we are in a Father/child covenant relationship with Him, and He will reward us for being faithful.

For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (Rom 3:28)
This is the law of Moses that makes God our debtor.

See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)
This is good work done in grace with faith.

They are entirely different types of works and do not contradict each other, because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.

 

[fbl9]

hey ben , what do you think that verse means? murder, rape, torture, perversion.who does that sound like? not the boy scouts.lets take a guess

pick me! it is the early american people you speak of.Whom just happened to be protestants.Or was it Martin Luther,or the church of england.

 

[moondweller]

We cannot do “works of the law” to obligate God. We are not in a debtor/creditor relationship with God. He owes us nothing.
Instead, we are in a Father/child covenant relationship with Him, and He will reward us for being faithful.

For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (Rom 3:28)
This is the law of Moses that makes God our debtor.

The Law of Moses (the Mosaic Covenant) never made God a debtor. It defined sin with its “Thou shalt not…;” and its ultimate purpose was to lead those under it (Jews) to Christ at His coming that they may be justified BY FAITH:Gal 3:23-26 "But before faith came, we (Jews) were kept in custody under law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."As for Rom. 3:28, there’s no definite article there and should read, “…a person is justified apart from works of law.” That’s apart from any principle of law, period. Yes, the true believer is under the “law of Christ,” and the “law of liberty,” but its the already saved , by grace through faith who operate in this world under those “laws.” The former is according to grace and the latter according to the Spirit.

See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)
This is good work done in grace with faith.

You interpret James completely out of context. His purpose was to have them demonstrate the faith by which they were justified. Not conclude that they will be justified by works. You corrupt that passage.

They are entirely different types of works and do not contradict each other, because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.

Your interpretation of James presents a clear contradiction. Here’s what Scripture clearly teaches on justification and works:Rom 4:4-6 "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"This is the faith/grace principle that Scripture follows all the way back to Abraham:Gen 15:6 "Then he (Abraham) believed in the LORD; and He (the Lord) reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness (justification)."You see, Ryan, the Law came in only to define sin, but God justifies the ungodly, not by works, but by faith alone. That’s the message of the gospel of Christ: Acts 16:31 “They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved…” The Law served its purpose: to lead to Christ. And the purpose for leading men to Christ is that they may be “justified by FAITH” - period.

 

[jemfinch]

…

I posted a reply to you long ago, but up to now you’ve ignored it. Would you mind replying, moondweller?

Jeremy

 

[Howie01]

jemfinch:

Esau lost his earthly inheritance without reversing his earthly birth. Why should loss of our spiritual inheritance call for a reversal of our spiritual rebirth?

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. "

You’re assuming salvation is a “complex problem.” **Luke 10:20-21

“Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.” At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight.** (cf 1 Cor 1:21)Note His sarcasm.

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. "

John 6:39-40

“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

jemfinch:

Or do you deny that these people lost their inheritance? If so, how can the end be worse for them than the beginning, if they did not have an imperishable inheritance in heaven at first, but still received that inheritance when they died after being entangled in the defilements of the world?

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

 

[jemfinch]

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

I did. What is your answer to that verse?

You’re assuming salvation is a “complex problem.”

Actually, I’m quoting H. L. Mencken for rhetorical and comedic effect.

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

I did. Perhaps you should consider answering it.

Jeremy

 

[ryanoneil]

The Law of Moses (the Mosaic Covenant) never made God a debtor.

But many Jews clearly came to believe that “law” requires payment.

A worker’s wage is credited not as a gift, but as something due. (Rom 4:4)

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 6:23)

"Or who has given him anything that he may be repaid?" (Rom 11:35)

It defined sin with its “Thou shalt not…;” and its ultimate purpose was to lead those under it (Jews) to Christ at His coming that they may be justified BY FAITH:Gal 3:23-26 "But before faith came, we (Jews) were kept in custody under law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."As for Rom. 3:28, there’s no definite article there and should read, “…a person is justified apart from works of law.” That’s apart from any principle of law, period.

Nice summary.

You interpret James completely out of context. His purpose was to have them demonstrate the faith by which they were justified. Not conclude that they will be justified by works. You corrupt that passage.Your interpretation of James presents a clear contradiction.

James is clearly states: See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. The word justified in (James 2:24) is the same word Paul uses for justification in (Rom. 4:3) in regard to Abraham. You cannot argue James is not referring to “justification” in James unless you argue Paul wasn’t in Romans either.

Scriptures teach that justification is achieved only when “faith and good works” act together.

Here’s what Scripture clearly teaches on justification and works:Rom 4:4-6 "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"This is the faith/grace principle that Scripture follows all the way back to Abraham:Gen 15:6 “Then he (Abraham) believed in the LORD; and He (the Lord) reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness (justification).”

Paul is emphasizing that works must be done in faith, not outside of faith. If they are done outside of faith, we are in a system of debt (God owes us). If they are done in faith (as James requires), we are in a system of grace (God rewards us). Paul accepts the works performed under God’s grace which lead to justification and eternal life.

eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works. . . But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. . . For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. (Rom 2:7,10,13)

Paul is referring to the “law of Christ” in (Gal 6:2), not “works of the law.”

You see, Ryan, the Law came in only to define sin, but God justifies the ungodly, not by works, but by faith alone. That’s the message of the gospel of Christ: Acts 16:31 “They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved…” The Law served its purpose: to lead to Christ. And the purpose for leading men to Christ is that they may be “justified by FAITH” - period.

Scripture doesn’t say God justifies by faith alone. Faith and good works must be together.

So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.” See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (James 2:17-26)

 

[Howie01]

jemfinch:

I did. Perhaps you should consider answering it.

No you didn’t; if memory serves me, the word “inheritance” appears no where in that epistle, let alone in the verse you’ve cited.

When one reads the verse in context, the truth becomes clear—those spoken of are described as "false teachers…who exploit with false words."

What is a false teacher, if not false—in everything spiritual? Really, what else is there to say about the passage?

They are false teachers…who exploit with false words.

I offered a passage in which Christ states the will of the Father regarding those who are not false in their teachings, nor in their professions.

The will of the Father for Christ concerning those who do not teach and profess falsely is, that Christ lose none, and that He raise them up on the last day.

Jesus says He will do that.

Therefore, those false teaches…who exploit with false words, spoken of by Peter in his epistle, were never given by the Father, to the Son for safekeeping, and they never believed in the Son—at least, not to the obtaining of eternal life.

If they did so believe, then by their loss, Christ failed.

 

[ryanoneil]

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

John 6:39-40

“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

 

[moondweller]

Don’t forget the only two places in the Bible where we see people getting “into Christ”:

“Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4)

“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:27-28)

Jeremy

P.S. I didn’t notice there were multiple pages of this thread; my apologies if I’ve simply repeated what someone else has already posted.

Is the message? It wasn’t addressed to me. But I’ll reply. It is those who have first believed in Christ for salvation that are then (1) subsequently water baptized (not the other way around) and (2) baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13). It’s the “saved by grace through faith” that are baptized into Christ. And in Romans chapter six the “saved by grace through faith” are baptized into His death. IOW, it is Divinely revealed that the “saved by grace through faith” have been crucified with Christ (died with Him, Col. 3:3) “unto sin” once for all (Rom. 6:10-11) and are therefore “freed from sin” (Rom. 6:7).

But those “saved by grace through faith” were also raised to new life in the resurrected Christ. The “saved by grace through faith” have a new position before God in Christ resurrected:Eph 2:4-7 "But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."This is salvation by grace through faith. This is the gospel (good news).

Bottom line, Jeremy, it’s the “saved by grace through faith” that are to be baptized. Baptism itself saves no one.

 

[Howie01]

ryanoneil:

When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

The defection of Judas was foreseen, and foreordained in Scripture (Ps 41:9; 109:8; cf Jn 13:18).**John 13:18

“I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’**

 

[ryanoneil]

The defection of Judas was foreseen, and foreordained in Scripture (Ps 41:9; 109:8; cf Jn 13:18).John 13:18

“I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

That doesn’t change the fact that he lost his salvation. Judas was given to Jesus by the Father, but he didn’t stay with Jesus. Part of God’s will was giving us a free will.

 

[ryanoneil]

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

**Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified. (1 Cor 9:24-27) **

Paul is “reborn” but he acknowledges he could be disqualified and lose his salvation.

 

[SHW]

Originally posted by Howie01 "Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

Romans 8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”

Galatians 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”

1 John 2:4 “He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

John 6:53 “Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.”

There are many conditions which must be met in order for us to called sons of God (inheritors of the kingdom of God). I’ve listed only a few of them. We are “sons of God” only when we are being led by the Spirit. In other words, we must obey God in order to be called His “sons.” As they say, “we have to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.” Jesus obeyed His Father and did His will. We need to “follow” Jesus which means to “imitate” Him in everything.

Paul states that this is expected of us and it is our reasonable service to God because of His mercy on us and His own Son’s ultimate sacrifice for us on the cross so that we can become heirs with Him in hope of eternal life.

Romans 12:1 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.”

Titus 3:7 “that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

What are we called when we are not obeying God?

Ephesians 5:5-7 “For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things** the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience**. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.”

Colossians 3:5-7 “Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7** in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them**.”

1 Corinthians 3:16-18 “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 18 Let no one deceive himself.”

Romans 6:16 “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?”

We are called sons of disobedience when we do not walk in the Spirit (obey God). We lose our inheritance when we refuse to obey God because we are subjected to the wrath of God instead of inheriting eternal life. We become “sons of disobedience” instead or remaining “sons of God” when we sin mortal sins.

Sin committed after our spiritual “rebirth” (we are “born again” through Baptism) leads to the death of our souls (loss of inheritance of eternal life). Mortal sin causes the death of our souls and we lose eternal life. At Baptism, God moves into our temples (souls). God destroys with His wrath, those persons who defile His temples (their souls) with mortal sins, if they do not repent and confess before death.

We must be found faithful at our deaths in order to actually inherit eternal life. Until then, we have hope of eternal life, not guarantee of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 4 “Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.”

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 “Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.”

to be continued…

 

[SHW]

Continued:

NT Scripture was written as a supplement to oral preaching. Jesus never commanded His “gospel” to be written down (except for Revelation). NT Scripture was never meant to replace oral teaching. Jesus commanded the apostles to go out and preach His gospel. His Church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with the successor of Peter as “keeper of the keys of the kingdom” of His Church and with Himself as its cornerstone until He returns. (Ephesians 2:19-22)

2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.”

Pax,
SHW

 

[ryanoneil]

Cite the verse, or verses which state that the Spiritually reborn can incur “loss of our spiritual inheritance?”

There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. (2 Peter 2:1)

 

[Howie01]

ryanoneil:

That doesn’t change the fact that he lost his salvation. Judas was given to Jesus by the Father, but he didn’t stay with Jesus. Part of God’s will was giving us a free will.

Then I must conclude that in order for me to join in communion with your faith community, I must believe that Christ is a failure, and powerless to save.

Therefore, I’ll stay in communion with those who believe as the early church, that church described in scripture believed: that Christ is a savior who does not fail to save His people.

ryanoneil:

Paul is “reborn” but he acknowledges he could be disqualified and lose his salvation.

This from a man who consistently proclaimed his salvation as fact, and who declared that his citizenship is in heaven, from which he also eagerly waits for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.