What does "Sola Fide" mean?

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Lenten_ashes said:
This is a topic where i feel like most Protestants and Catholics are essentially saying the same thing, just speaking different languages.

We both acknowledge that works naturally come from true saving faith.

It’s only the extremist(some Calvinists) That seem to think you can accept Jesus as Savior and live 90 years and never lift a finger for the Lord, yet still be saved.
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I have never seen that view espoused by any “Calvinist”
That view is held by those who think Jesus gives out “get out of jail free” cards…
Calvinists emphasize God’s sovereignty over everything ,even the will of man

Calvinists would say that the saving faith that is a gift from God changes you.
IOW changing your “free will” to desire to please God.

in fact, it is often stated this way
" if your faith didn’t change you then your faith didn’t save you"

and I’ll add
" if your faith didn’t change you then your faith didn’t come from God"
 
alwayswill said:
I have never seen that view espoused by any “Calvinist”
That view is held by those who think Jesus gives out “get out of jail free” cards…
Calvinists emphasize God’s sovereignty over everything ,even the will of man

Calvinists would say that the saving faith that is a gift from God changes you.
IOW changing your “free will” to desire to please God.

**in fact, it is often stated this way
" if your faith didn’t change you then your faith didn’t save you"

and I’ll add
" if your faith didn’t change you then your faith didn’t come from God"**
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When you say “… didn’t save you” at what point are you talking about? Here and now, or ever?
 
rcwitness said:
When you say “… didn’t save you” at what point are you talking about? Here and now, or ever?
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the evidence of a faith from God (which always saves) would be a changed life.
It may be subtle, it may be extreme.

Initially, now, and in the future.

for ex:
" if your faith isn’t changing you then your faith isn’t save you"

Scripture teaches that
real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20).
The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6).
The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10).
Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27),
love their brothers (1 John 3:14),
obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14),
do the will of God (Matthew 12:50),
abide in God’s Word (John 8:31),
keep God’s Word (John 17:6),
do good works (Ephesians 2:10),
and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14).

God does NOT give the gift of faith that is like a demon’s faith. or that is useless, or that is dead.
 
alwayswill said:
the evidence of a faith from God (which always saves) would be a changed life.
It may be subtle, it may be extreme.

Initially, now, and in the future.

for ex:
" if your faith isn’t changing you then your faith isn’t save you"

Scripture teaches that
real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20).
The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6).
The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10).
Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27),
love their brothers (1 John 3:14),
obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14),
do the will of God (Matthew 12:50),
abide in God’s Word (John 8:31),
keep God’s Word (John 17:6),
do good works (Ephesians 2:10),
and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14).

God does NOT give the gift of faith that is like a demon’s faith. or that is useless, or that is dead.
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Ok. So, are you saying there is only faith that saves no matter what we do, or there is no faith at all?

The thing is… is that Catholics believe one can be Justified/saved/sanctified, but then abandon the faith on account of the work that faith requires.

Those who are Baptized are saved, those who are not Baptized, but do believe, are in danger of unrepentant change.
 
rcwitness said:
Ok. So, are you saying there is only faith that saves no matter what we do, or there is no faith at all?

The thing is… is that Catholics believe one can be Justified/saved/sanctified, but then abandon the faith on account of the work that faith requires.

Those who are Baptized are saved, those who are not Baptized, but do believe, are in danger of unrepentant change.
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"Ok. So, are you saying there is only faith that saves no matter what we do, or there is no faith at all?

nope : i didn’t say that

lets break that down
“there is only faith that saves”
absolutely true: The ONLY faith that will ever save is the faith that come from God:

“no matter what we do”
It does matter what we do: as proof of what God has done, is doing, and will do in us.

or there is no faith at all?
It is a cause and effect order of events

Heavy rain from above will effect the ground by changing the soil from dry to wet…
 
alwayswill said:
“Ok. So, are you saying there is only faith that saves no matter what we do, or there is no faith at all?”

nope : i didn’t say that.

lets break that down
“there is only faith that saves”
absolutely true: The ONLY faith that will ever save is the faith that come from God:

“no matter what we do”
It does matter what we do: as proof of what God has done, is doing, and will do in us.
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You are right. I didn’t intend to phrase it like that. That was unfair and I didn’t actually think you believed that.

But for the record. I worked with an Evangelical youth program and the youth pastor did tell the children, “If you believe and accept Jesus as your savior, you will be saved no matter what you do.” I really liked this pastor, and if pressed, I’m pretty sure he would agree that that statement is not very truthful. However, I never discussed it in enough debt to know.

Maybe the point is, is that some Catholics and some Protestants can have positions that are extreme in one way or the other. The article sounds very good at addressing the matter.

I also have asked Catholics why they believe they are saved or going to heaven if they died now. Some say, “I am a good person”. That is a very “unformed” understanding of the faith. But then again, if pressed, I’m sure they would agree.

In the end, it’s usually the shallow individuals of both sides which cause the trouble. 😉
 
I used to attend a LMCS church. The minister there was always preaching sola scriptura, sola gratia, and sola fide. I too always thought this was a word game. Which “alone” is it that benefits us the most? Scripture? Faith? Grace?. After converting to Catholicism six years ago, and teaching for five, I almost pity him for missing out on what we call “the fullness of the faith.” Theirs seemed to be such a minimalist approach. Almost like “What is the least I have to do?”
 
EricF said:
I used to attend a LMCS church. The minister there was always preaching sola scriptura, sola gratia, and sola fide. I too always thought this was a word game. Which “alone” is it that benefits us the most? Scripture? Faith? Grace?. After converting to Catholicism six years ago, and teaching for five, I almost pity him for missing out on what we call “the fullness of the faith.” Theirs seemed to be such a minimalist approach. Almost like “What is the least I have to do?”
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It is by God’s Holy Scripture alone, which teaches us that salvation is by Grace alone,
through Faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone.

nothing minimalist about it:

Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith **He demands involves unconditional surrender **(Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10).
In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6).
Surrender to Jesus’ lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture
 
EricF said:
I used to attend a LMCS church. The minister there was always preaching sola scriptura, sola gratia, and sola fide. I too always thought this was a word game. Which “alone” is it that benefits us the most? Scripture? Faith? Grace?. After converting to Catholicism six years ago, and teaching for five, I almost pity him for missing out on what we call “the fullness of the faith.” Theirs seemed to be such a minimalist approach. Almost like “What is the least I have to do?”
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Yes, but the good aspect of that approach (Sola Fide) is that it is genuine faith that will compel someone to do what is right, and not a fear based, or works based, or self righteous based mentality to living. Because that will really not result in knowing the Holy Spirit. And this does need to be instilled in our young Catholics. Teaching them what Faith and Works means in a manner that each person can understand. That faith is denied when perseverance in God’s commands are denied. Or that we won’t go to heaven because we are “good”, but rather we are good, if we know that He has done work in and through us.
 
ajcstr said:
Also, Sola Fide is entwined with assurance of salvation which can result in 2 branches off the Sola Fide tree.
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you’re right:
One branch; man has the final ultimate choice and the other branch God has final ultimate choice.

One branch; man overrides the desires of God: and the other branch; God overrides the desires of man:

Guess which side I am on?
 
alwayswill said:
you’re right:
One branch; man has the final ultimate choice and the other branch God has final ultimate choice.

One branch; man overrides the desires of God: and the other branch; God overrides the desires of man:

Guess which side I am on?
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I’m not sure you are representing the sceneries very accurately. 🤷

Where does Scripture imply that God “overrides” our desires? Please be careful here, because this is exactly the “use of words” that causes trouble.

The notion of “assurance of salvation” is dangerous if one determines, for themselves, that they know their final judgement. It’s good to examine our present condition and standing before God. It’s wrong if we presume to know that we can never deny what temptations may befall us.
 
Wesrock said:
I think we can delve deeper, as there seems to be disagreement in some circles about God’s Providence over our will. Do we assent and cooperate in works and can these works provide merit (with God as the prime mover on grace that initiates works and meritorious only because of Christ)? Or does God move all the saved to works in an irresistible way?
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alwayswill said:
that is covered under Sola Gratia

this thread is Sola Fide
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I was unaware that Protestants divided the two up that way. In my mind they are inseparable. As the OP, would you mind if we talk about both?

I’m still uncertain about how a person can say that salvation comes Sola Fide/Gratia and yet still require an action on that person’s part. Actions such as surrendering to Him, accepting His gift, etc.
 
I also want to thank Alwayswill for her/his time here, and remind everyone to continue to be courteous.
 
rcwitness said:
I’m not sure you are representing the sceneries very accurately. 🤷

Where does Scripture imply that God “overrides” our desires? Please be careful here, because this is exactly the “use of words” that causes trouble.

The notion of “assurance of salvation” is dangerous if one determines, for themselves, that they know their final judgement. It’s good to examine our present condition and standing before God. It’s wrong if we presume to know that we can never deny what temptations may befall us.
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thr heart is a common metaphor for feelings/ desires: right?
Ezekiel 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And** I will** remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 11:19 And** I will** give them one heart, and a new spirit** I will put within them. I will **remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh.

Basic point : does God want those you have eternal life to know they have eternal life?

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

does God want the elect to confirm their election?

2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election.
 
alwayswill said:
thr heart is a metaphor for feelings/ desires: right?
Ezekiel 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And** I will** remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 11:19 And** I will** give them one heart, and a new spirit** I will put within them. I will **remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh.
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But does person consent to the new heart (which is an action) or is the new heart forced upon them regardless of their consent?

And then afterwards, does a person choose (an action) to act as a disciple of God or are the actions forced without their consent? Conversely, does a person choose (an action) to act wickedly or are the actions forced without their consent?
 
Scripture does tell us that we can believe, be Baptized and sanctified, yet deny the faith through not persevering, turning from serious sin and doing good works.

1 Timothy
Command this, so that they may be without reproach.*If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Hebrews 10
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?*For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
 
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