What does Women are Portrait in our Catholic Faith

[Xantippe]

If being a modern SAHM was easy, everybody would be lining up to be a modern SAHM of a large family. But the truth is, it’s not and (on some level) people know it, which is why a) the average US woman has 1.88 children over her entire lifetime b) only about a third of mothers of younger children are SAHMs and c) SAHMs have very high reported levels of all sorts of bad stuff. “Stay-at-Home Moms More Depressed, Angry and Sad, Study Says”:

metroparent.com/daily/parenting/parenting-issues-tips/stay-home-moms-depressed-angry-sad-study-says/

(That’s a very good piece–it hits a lot of important areas.)

Isolation is a biggie–a year or so ago, I realized that (due to the fact that going anywhere grownup with the toddler was a chore–heck, leaving the house at all was a chore), I’d largely killed off my adult social life. I could go literally weeks at a time without speaking in person to an adult other than my husband for more than three minutes, and it was really, really, really bad for me. And it’s not just me–there’s a CAF SAHD who has mentioned only getting to talk to the drive-thru lady…

Women are usually pretty social critters, we need each other for support, and we wilt without adult female companionship. The way life is set up today, a lot of women face the choice of a) getting to see their children during the day or b) getting to talk regularly to grownups. It’s an awful choice, and it didn’t used to be like that.

I’m sure your dad is a good guy, but if he had 1.00 kids and has never had to deal with more than 1.00 kids for any substantial length of time, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. And that goes double if his time as a single dad started once you were 4+ years old…Little kids and big kids are totally distinct critters. I have some of both at home (14, 11 and 3) and here are some of the differences:

Big Kids
–go to the potty by themselves
–can dress themselves
–can put themselves to bed
–can fix themselves breakfast
–can fix themselves lunch/pack their own lunch for school
–can clear the table after dinner without accidents
–can unload the dishwasher
–can watch a baby sister for a few minutes
–can bathe themselves
–can brush their own hair
–can brush their own teeth
–can take their own temperatures
–can read by themselves
–can clean their rooms
–can run into the store and buy something while mom stays with baby sister in the car
–Etc.

My oldest has been mother’s-helpering for a friend of mine for years now, and she was just working this afternoon hanging pictures for my friend. She and her baby sister live on completely different planets.

Oh and Xantippe I just read the woman in need thread.

From her story I couldnt post this there despite my temotatiin because her husband sounds in need of a bit of work as well. Most notably weekend computer time and such though it could be an escaoe… idk.

Anyway, my dad was a legit single dad, dead mom. Worked and raised the kid NO HELP.

My dad has NEVER understood why it is “so hard” for a stay at home mom to function in modern times.

This goes to my everyone has a reason thing.

Here is my dad working mother and father combined into one. He said yeah it is “hard” but we do it.

Culture says a stay at home mom needs help because her life is overwhelming.

Peggy Bundy was overwhelmed moving a finger. Doesn’t make it true… Magneto

 

[LethalMouse]

If being a modern SAHM was easy, everybody would be lining up to be a modern SAHM of a large family. But the truth is, it’s not and (on some level) people know it, which is why a) the average US woman has 1.88 children over her entire lifetime b) only about a third of mothers of younger children are SAHMs and c) SAHMs have very high reported levels of all sorts of bad stuff. “Stay-at-Home Moms More Depressed, Angry and Sad, Study Says”:

metroparent.com/daily/parenting/parenting-issues-tips/stay-home-moms-depressed-angry-sad-study-says/

(That’s a very good piece–it hits a lot of important areas.)

Isolation is a biggie–a year or so ago, I realized that (due to the fact that going anywhere grownup with the toddler was a chore–heck, leaving the house at all was a chore), I’d largely killed off my adult social life. I could go literally weeks at a time without speaking in person to an adult other than my husband for more than three minutes, and it was really, really, really bad for me. And it’s not just me–there’s a CAF SAHD who has mentioned only getting to talk to the drive-thru lady…

Women are usually pretty social critters, we need each other for support, and we wilt without adult female companionship. The way life is set up today, a lot of women face the choice of a) getting to see their children during the day or b) getting to talk regularly to grownups. It’s an awful choice, and it didn’t used to be like that.

I’m sure your dad is a good guy, but if he had 1.00 kids and has never had to deal with more than 1.00 kids for any substantial length of time, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. And that goes double if his time as a single dad started once you were 4+ years old…Little kids and big kids are totally distinct critters. I have some of both at home (14, 11 and 3) and here are some of the differences:

Big Kids
–go to the potty by themselves
–can dress themselves
–can put themselves to bed
–can fix themselves breakfast
–can fix themselves lunch/pack their own lunch for school
–can clear the table after dinner without accidents
–can unload the dishwasher
–can watch a baby sister for a few minutes
–can bathe themselves
–can brush their own hair
–can brush their own teeth
–can take their own temperatures
–can read by themselves
–can clean their rooms
–can run into the store and buy something while mom stays with baby sister in the car
–Etc.

My oldest has been mother’s-helpering for a friend of mine for years now, and she was just working this afternoon hanging pictures for my friend. She and her baby sister live on completely different planets.

Try >1 but you need to assume anything that makes male bad or worthless in commentary.

You should note I admonish the bad of the male in the post. You cannot admonish both only one. That mentality is what makes being a wofe and mother hard.

Your prime goal is to protect yourself

The secondary is the rest.

That is why the new wave of stay at home dads seem to do better, they are not “better” they arent fighting prejudice.

It is “ism”, it is entitlement, and it is Magneto syndrome.

They are rare today but I know some SAHM with multiple hcildren who do not have the isms and NONE of them have a problem. That is the point.

You can view that thread and see my advice.
I still dont think she “needs help” persay.

She needs a husband not a second child. He is an immature dope she lacks any proper ordered connection and moral support. He is a dumbass. But her idea of what is what and the opinions she will get from ism people is going to lead her to beingnlike the wofe from everybody loves raymond. Lol… hopefully not but that is what you people oresch in general (I didnt read yours there

 

[Xantippe]

Try >1 but you need to assume anything that makes male bad or worthless in commentary.

You should note I admonish the bad of the male in the post. You cannot admonish both only one. That mentality is what makes being a wofe and mother hard.

Your prime goal is to protect yourself

The secondary is the rest.

That is why the new wave of stay at home dads seem to do better, they are not “better” they arent fighting prejudice.

It is “ism”, it is entitlement, and it is Magneto syndrome.

They are rare today but I know some SAHM with multiple hcildren who do not have the isms and NONE of them have a problem. That is the point.

You can view that thread and see my advice.
I still dont think she “needs help” persay.

She needs a husband not a second child. He is an immature dope she lacks any proper ordered connection and moral support. He is a dumbass. But her idea of what is what and the opinions she will get from ism people is going to lead her to beingnlike the wofe from everybody loves raymond. Lol… hopefully not but that is what you people oresch in general (I didnt read yours there

1. LM, you wrote “Worked and raised the kid NO HELP.” The “kid” instead of “kids” must have been a phone typo on your part.
2. About SAHDs:

a. A lot are home because of unemployment or disability.

“Roughly a quarter of these stay-at-home fathers (23%) report that they are home mainly because they cannot find a job. Nearly as many (21%) say the main reason they are home is to care for their home or family.”

“Still, the largest share of stay-at-home fathers (35%) is at home due to illness or disability. This is in sharp contrast to stay-at-home mothers, most of whom (73%) report that they are home specifically to care for their home or family4; just 11% are home due to their own illness or disability.”

pewsocialtrends.org/2014/06/05/growing-number-of-dads-home-with-the-kids/

b. SAHDs are often poor:

“And almost half (47%) of stay-at-home fathers are living in poverty, compared with 8% of working fathers. This poverty figure is even higher than among stay-at-home mothers (34% of whom are in poverty), and may be due, in part, to the fact that stay-at-home fathers are far less likely to have a working spouse than stay-at-home mothers (50% vs. 68%) and are more likely to be ill or disabled than stay-at-home mothers (35% vs. 11%).”

c. Isolation is if anything more of a problem with SAHDs for obvious reasons.

stayathomedads.about.com/od/sahdhealthandsanity/a/feelingisolated.htm

1. “They are rare today but I know some SAHM with multiple hcildren who do not have the isms and NONE of them have a problem. That is the point.”

That’s interesting. I don’t know any SAHMs either online or in real life that don’t have any problems. In my experience, believing that other people don’t have problems is generally a sign that I don’t know them very well. The better I know somebody, the better I know their problems.

Years ago, when I had a 3-year-old and an infant and we were visiting family, my FIL was unimpressed with how I was handling the two of them. My husband heard FIL say under his breath in his native language, “Lots of women have five children and do JUST FINE.”

At the time, that really stung, but now that I’m older, it just makes me laugh, for a number of reasons. Firstly, because I know more about other mothers now, and I know everybody struggles–but some people are better at faking confidence than others. Secondly, because FIL and MIL raised only two kids themselves, with lots and lots of grandma help…and the kids were 10 years apart–so FIL never had both a preschooler and an infant at the same time. Thirdly, because I know that nowadays, FIL is overwhelmed by being around two well-behaved big school-age children (we haven’t yet visited as a family of five because MIL doesn’t think he can cope).

1. I was there in that thread. I don’t approve of punitive action, but I do believe in straight-talking.

You would be surprised how many CAF women are doing better with their husbands by virtue of a little clear communication and firmness.

 

[Xantippe]

Back to topic, I was just remembering that Sheila Wray Gregoire (a Protestant marriage writer I talked about earlier who has interesting ideas about submission as seeking welfare of one’s spouse) has a good piece about submission and unity.

tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2016/07/4-facts-about-submission-in-marriage/

I’ll pull out some quotes:

"When I speak at marriage conferences, I often ask wives what they think submission means. The room grows silent as they hem and haw, until finally a few hands are raised. “When you disagree, he gets the final say.”

“I’ve never heard an answer other than that one. If you think about it, though, that sounds rather peculiar–as if God’s command for women in marriage can be summed up as, “in the case of ties, husbands win”! Perhaps when it comes to submission, the immortal words of thePrincess Bride apply, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” So let’s look at what submission does–and doesn’t–mean.”

"If submission means that the husband makes the decisions, then the underlying assumption is that the husband and wife will disagree.

“Does the same God who sets high standards for us–whose will is that “there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought (1 Corinthians 1:10)”–turn to marriage and say, “obviously agreement isn’t possible there“? Why is unity the starting point in every other Christian relationship, while disunity is the starting point in marriage?”

"By assuming that a wife will always defer to her husband, though, we’re not assuming that the couple will find God’s will at all. If the couple is in disagreement and they do it the husband’s way, there are only two possibilities: either one of them is not hearing God, or both of them are not hearing God.

“Why not rather wrestle it through in prayer? Why not fast, and talk to mentors, and pray without ceasing until you find agreement?”

I think she’s making some interesting points. If submission means the wife externally agreeing and cooperating while inwardly worried, conflicted, or feeling guilty about her husband’s plan–is that truly unity? It doesn’t sound like it. There isn’t agreement until the couple actually agrees.

Also, I think she’s right that there is a lot of value in waiting and letting thoughts percolate and develop. A lot of times, there are a lot more than two choices–given enough time, better options may emerge. In fact, in my experience, they always do. Plus, the situation may become clearer with time.

And she’s quite right to mention the benefit of talking to discreet third parties–for instance a priest or marriage counselor or an expert in whatever the relevant field is–for instance a lawyer or accountant. Or even just doing a quick google. I was (thanks be to God!) finally able to persuade my husband to stop overloading the washer by finding an article explaining why not.

livestrong.com/article/1006599-happens-put-many-clothes-laundry/

 

[LethalMouse]

1. “They are rare today but I know some SAHM with multiple hcildren who do not have the isms and NONE of them have a problem. That is the point.”

That’s interesting. I don’t know any SAHMs either online or in real life that don’t have any problems. In my experience, believing that other people don’t have problems is generally a sign that I don’t know them very well. The better I know somebody, the better I know their problems.

Let me correct myself, NO ONE has not A problem.

They dont have THE problem.

Notably they dont find their existence a miserable hell hole of subjugation.

DONALD trumo and Bill Gates have “problems”

I’d trade for them everyday.

I have mismatched wall paneling in my sons room after fixing and elesctical short

Someone’s problem is they have no wall.

Problems are subjective

To compare my wall paneling as a problem would make billions scoff at me at tell me I am a spoiled brat. Period.

 

[Xantippe]

Let me correct myself, NO ONE has not A problem.

They dont have THE problem.

Notably they dont find their existence a miserable hell hole of subjugation.

DONALD trumo and Bill Gates have “problems”

I’d trade for them everyday.

I have mismatched wall paneling in my sons room after fixing and elesctical short

Someone’s problem is they have no wall.

Problems are subjective

To compare my wall paneling as a problem would make billions scoff at me at tell me I am a spoiled brat. Period.

Why would you expect SAHMs in real life that you weren’t closely related to to confide their struggles with you, a divorced guy? That would be muy inappropriate.

In real life, I would not dream of doing anything of the kind. Outside of a close blood relationship, that’s strictly a girl-girl conversation, unless there’s something inappropriate going on.

Again, if SAHMing is so easy, why isn’t everybody jumping into it with both feet and doing it long-term? By and large they’re not. Which suggests that maybe it’s not the trip to Disneyland that you believe it is…