What doesn't make sense to you?

[Mike_from_NJ]

It was and is a LOADED question, as I {ME HERE] suspect was the point he was making;

I can’t speak for Expatreprocedit, but his question seemed quite fair and reasonable. The fact is Catholics and those looking to be Catholic ask this question as well. You wouldn’t call Catholics wanting such a list to be asking a loaded question, would you?

If I say I have a method to determine if something falls under a certain category or not, the next logical question is asking what are the things so far that I have determined that fall under that category.

My friend you’re having TOO MUCH fun with this serious matter.

NOT so, as I [ME HERE] suspect you also know. Which is WHY I replied as I did.

I’m not here to poke fun at anybody. This is a place where one goes to get Catholic answers (hence the title at the top corner of the page). The problem is instead of getting answers we’re getting non-answers. I completely agree with Expatreprocedit when he (or she?) said how strange it was that so many of the people who believe in papal infallibilty “seem profoundly uninterested in the question” of which statements are infallible.

The term “infallibility” is a “recent” theological term. EVERYTHING Jesus taught and the RCC shares AS BEING WHAT JESUS TAUGHT is defacto: “Infallible”.

I’m glad you put recent in scare quotes, because the term is just shy of 150 years old. Even if you want to say that the Church has not had the time to go over the entirety of statements made by the pope, surely some of them should have been put through the process that you quoted to determine if they are infallible or not.

As far as the part about everything Jesus taught being infallible, would the same hold true for God the Father?

Over a 2,000 year history and the recent addition of theological terminology; there is NO LIST; BUT there ARE guidelines, which I shared in the POST your referencing.

Has the Church said that any specific statements that a pope has made regarding faith and morals been declared infallible apart from the Immaculate Conception and the Ascencion of Mary? Is there one?

The reason people (Catholics and non-Catholics alike) ask these kinds of questions is because the de facto answer usually falls in the vague area of maybe or probably.

This article gives some keywords to look for to see if a teaching is “probably” infallible, but then we have problems like where the Council of Gangra uses that language to defend slavery.

I’m happy to address and other serious questions; BUT because I HAVE previously demonstrated that “infallibility” ALONE is NOT the ONLY binding condition for Souls to HAVE to obey and accept.,

I can’t stress this enough, but the fact that the Church notes that there are things believers are to do besides those things defined infallibly in no way answers the question as to what is infallible.

I consider THIS topic [infallibility] to be concluded. Even I have only so much time to invest

I fully respect the desire to put a conversation to rest. I’ve done that on CAF a few times myself. Just understand that while you consider the matter concluded, I think it is more accurate to say the topic is unanswered and very incomplete.

 

[lanman87]

Part 3 of 3

Isa.43: 7 every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." & [21] the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise”

Grace is as far from predestination [which BTW biblically ONLY means pre-KNOWLEDGE OF our choices], as “the East is from the West.” So grace cannot even by GOD be FORCED upon anyone. It HAS to be freely accepted and rightly applied.
Salvations is GOD”S Will BUT man’s freewill choice. Life is the God Test. That God permits certain graces to be initiated by man is because of the fact that in emulation of God; we are ABLE to choose salvation for ourselves [WITH God’s permission and gifts].

AMEN

God Bless you my friend,
Patrick

Thanks for the lengthy response.

You said “My friend, I pray what I have shared above has pointed out the errors of this line of thought? … While ALL grace is FREE in the sense that man cannot in ANY way TRULY “deserve” it; ALL grace is still an OFFER, and a conditional offer at that.”

I would say Grace is a gift it that not only do we not deserve it, we also cannot earn it. I would agree that Grace is conditional but the only condition I see in the Bible is faith.

 

[PJM]

I can’t speak for Expatreprocedit, but his question seemed quite fair and reasonable. The fact is Catholics and those looking to be Catholic ask this question as well. You wouldn’t call Catholics wanting such a list to be asking a loaded question, would you?

If I say I have a method to determine if something falls under a certain category or not, the next logical question is asking what are the things so far that I have determined that fall under that category.

I’m not here to poke fun at anybody. This is a place where one goes to get Catholic answers (hence the title at the top corner of the page). The problem is instead of getting answers we’re getting non-answers. I completely agree with Expatreprocedit when he (or she?) said how strange it was that so many of the people who believe in papal infallibilty “seem profoundly uninterested in the question” of which statements are infallible.

I’m glad you put recent in scare quotes, because the term is just shy of 150 years old. Even if you want to say that the Church has not had the time to go over the entirety of statements made by the pope, surely some of them should have been put through the process that you quoted to determine if they are infallible or not.

As far as the part about everything Jesus taught being infallible, would the same hold true for God the Father?

Has the Church said that any specific statements that a pope has made regarding faith and morals been declared infallible apart from the Immaculate Conception and the Ascencion of Mary? Is there one?

The reason people (Catholics and non-Catholics alike) ask these kinds of questions is because the de facto answer usually falls in the vague area of maybe or probably.

This article gives some keywords to look for to see if a teaching is “probably” infallible, but then we have problems like where the Council of Gangra uses that language to defend slavery.

I can’t stress this enough, but the fact that the Church notes that there are things believers are to do besides those things defined infallibly in no way answers the question as to what is infallible.

I fully respect the desire to put a conversation to rest. I’ve done that on CAF a few times myself. Just understand that while you consider the matter concluded, I think it is more accurate to say the topic is unanswered and very incomplete.

Thank you, but as the OP I have shared all that I have to share on the topic of infallibility;

NEXT QUESTION PLEASE:shrug:

 

[PJM]

Thanks for the lengthy response.

You said “My friend, I pray what I have shared above has pointed out the errors of this line of thought? … While ALL grace is FREE in the sense that man cannot in ANY way TRULY “deserve” it; ALL grace is still an OFFER, and a conditional offer at that.”

I would say Grace is a gift it that not only do we not deserve it, we also cannot earn it. I would agree that Grace is conditional but the only condition I see in the Bible is faith.

Thank you

While faith Can’t be “earned”; it can nevertheless be merited, which is God’s plan for us.

I’m not sure what you mean fully by “bible faith”; Speaking once again PERSONALLY here, I have yet to find any protestant who beliefs ALL that the bible ACTUALLY teaches; do they believe what THEY think the bible teaches? Perhaps; maybe even yes; but that is far from what can only be singular truths.

God Bless you friend,

Patrick

 

[lanman87]

Thank you

While faith Can’t be “earned”; it can nevertheless be merited, which is God’s plan for us.

I’m not sure what you mean fully by “bible faith”; Speaking once again PERSONALLY here, I have yet to find any protestant who beliefs ALL that the bible ACTUALLY teaches; do they believe what THEY think the bible teaches? Perhaps; maybe even yes; but that is far from what can only be singular truths.

God Bless you friend,

Patrick

Please explain the difference between earned and merited? I see earned as action that receives a benefit.

I’ll try to explain what I mean by faith.

Faith is a small word with a large meaning. It means more than knowledge of who Christ is and what he has done for us. It means more that agreeing with who Christ is and what he has done for us. I heard one teacher put it this way. If those two things are all that faith involves then congratulations, you are qualified to be a demon.

Faith is those two things plus but it is so much more. Faith is when we realize just how sinful we are and how hopeless with are without Jesus. It is when we cry out to God for forgiveness and ask him to change us. It is putting absolute trust in Christ for our salvation and redemption. It is when we become new creations in Christ. It is when we go from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. Faith is a change in our heart and soul and spirit that comes from accepting the gift of grace and resting in the Love of God and enjoying fellowship with Christ.

That kind of faith doesn’t just change what we do it changes who we are. But because it changes who we are it also changes what we do. Faith causes us to seek to grow even greater faith and have even more knowledge about the Christ who has transformed our heart and life. Faith causes us to be filled with the Spirit, gives us access to Spiritual Gifts, and to seek to have the fruit of the Spirit in our life. When we have faith we can no longer enjoy the temporary pleasures of sin but we hate our sin. Our sin makes our heart sick just as we know it grieves the Holy Spirit who lives within us. We, through the power of the spirit, wrestle with the sin nature and long for the day of when our sin nature is removed and we truly will be perfect. Faith causes us to grieve for the souls of others and seek to bring them to the joys and faith. It causes us to care for others in ways we could have never done in our own power. It causes us to seek to glorify Christ in everything we do. It cause us to worship and praise the God of Creation and His son. I could go on and on…

That is a weak and incomplete attempt to explain what I mean by faith.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

Thank you, but as the OP I have shared all that I have to share on the topic of infallibility;

NEXT QUESTION PLEASE:shrug:

Well, you didn’t really address my question, but better luck with the next one.

 

[Rosebud77]

1. Maybe confession to a Priest. For the reason that every time I’ve been I am always given absolution but have committed the same sin again. Which makes me think that my intentions were not pure last time round and therefore how could I have been forgiven then. In other words how does the Priest know if your intentions are right at the time he gives you absolution.
2. Why Catholics do not sing with the gusto that some Protestants do. I am generalising here I know, but I can only go on my experience of having been both Protestant and then Catholic. Honestly we have the most beautiful culture and all the history to back us up. The best apologetics also, but it seems sometimes to me that we are on the back foot.

I once heard the most beautiful local singing here in Ireland, passing a beer garden one afternoon… compared to the…thin warbling…I have heard in local churches, and I still sing the hymns of my Anglican childhood on very occasion possible especially alone here.

 

[Rosebud77]

You ask a question that also intrigues me. I hope you get a sincere response. I asked several months ago also how a priest who would have the stain of mortal stain on his soul through the actions of sexual abuse could be an effective “alter Christ” in achieving the Eucharist. Apparently it doesn’t matter how sinful the priest may be, he still can say the words of consecration and turn the wafer into the flesh of Jesus.

Your question is also my question.

Thank you

 

[PJM]

Please explain the difference between earned and merited? I see earned as action that receives a benefit.

I’ll try to explain what I mean by faith.

Faith is a small word with a large meaning. It means more than knowledge of who Christ is and what he has done for us. It means more that agreeing with who Christ is and what he has done for us. I heard one teacher put it this way. If those two things are all that faith involves then congratulations, you are qualified to be a demon.

Faith is those two things plus but it is so much more. Faith is when we realize just how sinful we are and how hopeless with are without Jesus. It is when we cry out to God for forgiveness and ask him to change us. It is putting absolute trust in Christ for our salvation and redemption. It is when we become new creations in Christ. It is when we go from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. Faith is a change in our heart and soul and spirit that comes from accepting the gift of grace and resting in the Love of God and enjoying fellowship with Christ.

That kind of faith doesn’t just change what we do it changes who we are. But because it changes who we are it also changes what we do. Faith causes us to seek to grow even greater faith and have even more knowledge about the Christ who has transformed our heart and life. Faith causes us to be filled with the Spirit, gives us access to Spiritual Gifts, and to seek to have the fruit of the Spirit in our life. When we have faith we can no longer enjoy the temporary pleasures of sin but we hate our sin. Our sin makes our heart sick just as we know it grieves the Holy Spirit who lives within us. We, through the power of the spirit, wrestle with the sin nature and long for the day of when our sin nature is removed and we truly will be perfect. Faith causes us to grieve for the souls of others and seek to bring them to the joys and faith. It causes us to care for others in ways we could have never done in our own power. It causes us to seek to glorify Christ in everything we do. It cause us to worship and praise the God of Creation and His son. I could go on and on…

That is a weak and incomplete attempt to explain what I mean by faith.

Please explain the difference between earned and merited? I see earned as action that receives a benefit.

Great question, its a “toughy”

Earn means that by what we do we are justified in expecting a payment or reward.

While “merit” as I have used it here means that we so some "good /often -charitable act where God who reads our intentions makes the decision to reward or not, and to what degree based on our motives. Which ONLY GOD is able to do.

I’ll try to explain what I mean by faith.

Faith is a small word with a large meaning. It means more than knowledge of who Christ is and what he has done for us. It means more that agreeing with who Christ is and what he has done for us. I heard one teacher put it this way. If those two things are all that faith involves then congratulations, you are qualified to be a demon.

Faith is those two things plus but it is so much more. Faith is when we realize just how sinful we are and how hopeless with are without Jesus. It is when we cry out to God for forgiveness and ask him to change us. It is putting absolute trust in Christ for our salvation and redemption. It is when we become new creations in Christ. It is when we go from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. Faith is a change in our heart and soul and spirit that comes from accepting the gift of grace and resting in the Love of God and enjoying fellowship with Christ.

That kind of faith doesn’t just change what we do it changes who we are. But because it changes who we are it also changes what we do. Faith causes us to seek to grow even greater faith and have even more knowledge about the Christ who has transformed our heart and life. Faith causes us to be filled with the Spirit, gives us access to Spiritual Gifts, and to seek to have the fruit of the Spirit in our life. When we have faith we can no longer enjoy the temporary pleasures of sin but we hate our sin. Our sin makes our heart sick just as we know it grieves the Holy Spirit who lives within us. We, through the power of the spirit, wrestle with the sin nature and long for the day of when our sin nature is removed and we truly will be perfect. Faith causes us to grieve for the souls of others and seek to bring them to the joys and faith. It causes us to care for others in ways we could have never done in our own power. It causes us to seek to glorify Christ in everything we do. It cause us to worship and praise the God of Creation and His son. I could go on and on…

That is a weak and incomplete attempt to explain what I mean by faith.

Thank you for such a beautiful definition of your understanding of the term “Faith”

However it seems to be missing [IMO] three critically important elements

1. TRUTH: which can be noting else but singular per defined issue
2. Humility to seek and then be able to accept Christ TRUTHS
3. Obedience to ALL that Christ Ordains, Commands, Desires and taught

Add these elements to your understanding, and you will be a bit closer to the fullness of “faiths” meaning.

Thank you and GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

quote Originally Posted by Wannano View Post
You ask a question that also intrigues me. I hope you get a sincere response. I asked several months ago also how a priest who would have the stain of mortal stain on his soul through the actions of sexual abuse could be an effective “alter Christ” in achieving the Eucharist. Apparently it doesn’t matter how sinful the priest may be, he still can say the words of consecration and turn the wafer into the flesh of Jesus.

Your question is also my question.[end quote]

Thank you

It’s because you seem to fail in understanding GOD HIS ability to forgive sins.

You both SEEM to ME, to want to make this grossly- abhorrent sin [WHICH IT IS], the “greatest of all possible sins”; more grievous than sins like abortion, adultery, Slander, gross lack of charity, and so on.

Yet Christ, [GOD] only identifies TWO classifications of sins; Venial [lesser] & Mortal Grave. WHY is this?

1 John 5:16-17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.** There is sin which is mortal;** I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

The difference between these two classifications is: Venial sins, even if not Confessed & forgive will not send a Soul to Eternal hell; while even ONE unconfessed and unforgiven MORTAL sin can do exactly that.

God’s Divine justice permits only the TWO classifications because to Him [GOD] one has failed in a smaller way, or one has put there eternal salvation at grave risk.

The multiple times certain POSTERS have repeated this charge, valid in and of itself, but I [ME HERE] suspect with anterior motives on THIS site, is troubling.

Priest too are HUMAN being, and very fallible. Not so different from each of us, except for the amount of graces OFFERED to them; but also like us. they too can deny and refuse God’s Offer for grace. what I PERSONALLY find troublesome, is that these accusations seem NEVER to include other faiths ministers failings., as if ONLY Catholic Priest can or do commit Mortal sins.

This is in NO WAY a attempt to lessen the GROSS Negligence of their responsibilities or the gravity of there misdeeds. BUT should 100 of the Catholic Priesthood be judged by the failings of 3%? NO, NOT IMO.

Further God has the ability to FORGIVE ANY sin except denial of GOD Himself. Can GOD not do this? And if God does ought we not too?

Does God really want US to make these kind of judgments?

Eph 5: 8-12 “for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),
and try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is a shame even to speak of the things that they do in secret;”

One GOD has forgiven one;s sins, THEY are according to God as far as the “East is from the West”… Is that not a moral lesson for each of us.

So in answer to your questions; in your view they are tainted forever; GOD"S postion is Mercy, and Forgiveness. Amen

John.20 Verses 19 to 23

[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” [20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. [21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” [22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. [23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by rweidn View Post

1. Maybe confession to a Priest. For the reason that every time I’ve been I am always given absolution but have committed the same sin again. Which makes me think that my intentions were not pure last time round and therefore how could I have been forgiven then. In other words how does the Priest know if your intentions are right at the time he gives you absolution.

1. Why Catholics do not sing with the gusto that some Protestants do. I am generalising here I know, but I can only go on my experience of having been both Protestant and then Catholic. Honestly we have the most beautiful culture and all the history to back us up. The best apologetics also, but it seems sometimes to me that we are on the back foot.

lousy voices?

Just KIDDING

Its a legitimate question; BUT varies very much from parish to parish. We just relocated back to Ohio from Florida [great -grand-kids], and the Florida parish had AWESOME Music.; but I agree that is not the NORM.

It has a lot to do with the Pastor and the amount of local talent; but then we DO HAVE Jesus Christ Really, Truly and Substantially Present [all the more reason for joyful singing], so all’s not so bad.

I once heard the most beautiful local singing here in Ireland, passing a beer garden one afternoon… compared to the…thin warbling…I have heard in local churches, and I still sing the hymns of my Anglican childhood on very occasion possible especially alone here.

Yea, on our years ago trip to Ireland we heard the same.

GBY

 

[lanman87]

Great question, its a “toughy”

Earn means that by what we do we are justified in expecting a payment or reward.

While “merit” as I have used it here means that we so some "good /often -charitable act where God who reads our intentions makes the decision to reward or not, and to what degree based on our motives. Which ONLY GOD is able to do.

Thank you for such a beautiful definition of your understanding of the term “Faith”

However it seems to be missing [IMO] three critically important elements

1. TRUTH: which can be noting else but singular per defined issue
2. Humility to seek and then be able to accept Christ TRUTHS
3. Obedience to ALL that Christ Ordains, Commands, Desires and taught

Add these elements to your understanding, and you will be a bit closer to the fullness of “faiths” meaning.

Thank you and GBY

Patrick

Thank you for your response. My only comment would be that obedience isn’t faith, it is a result of faith. It is what we do because we have faith.

I’m still having a hard time with merit being a vehicle of grace. I looked up the definition of merit and it gave the analogy of earning good grades in school hoping to merit a scholarship. If this is how you are using it then I would still say that is attempting to earn grace.

Now don’t get me wrong. I do think that works earn rewards, both in this life and the life to come. However , a reward and grace are two different things. Grace is free, rewards are earned.

At any rate, I’ve enjoyed learning about Catholicism and have two books on the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism to be delivered tomorrow. My wife calls it my new obsession.

 

[PJM]

Thank you for your response. My only comment would be that obedience isn’t faith, it is a result of faith. It is what we do because we have faith.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.

I sorta disagree with you here though. Obedience leads to faith, as it counters pride & requires humility here is WHY I say that.

Luke.8:21 “But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

Luke.11: 28 “But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

At first pass this is easily overlooked in its essential significance. The message here is foundational and inseperatable from **Mt 10: 1-5; Mt 16:15-19; John 17:17-20; Mt 28:18-20; Eph 4:4-7 & Eph. 2: 18-22; **EACH of which is to be read paying close attention to the singular tense words the Holy Spirit Inspired [Catholic] authors of the NT choose to use. Each of the above is directly to and EXCLUSIVELY to the Apostles and by necessity their successors. [Mt 10: 6-10 compared to Mt 28:19-20]

Here is a site you can use to easily look them up

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/r/rsv/

In the entire bible the message is consistently: Believe in Just ONE True God [the 1st Commandment; Exo 6:7 & Mt 16:18 “MY Church” both singular], One set of faith beliefs as even God can noting more; and always One Chosen people, as evidenced above. Nowhere in the bible can it be shown that God; Yahweh or Christ ever approved of, accepted, tolerated, permitted ANY other faith beliefs other than what HE TAUGHT.

I’m still having a hard time with merit being a vehicle of grace. I looked up the definition of merit and it gave the analogy of earning good grades in school hoping to merit a scholarship. If this is how you are using it then I would still say that is attempting to earn grace.

Yes the difference is slight, even mysterious. The best I can think of here is from the Prophet Isaiah who beautifully prophesied our Saviors birth about 500 years before it took place;** [Isa. 7:14]** and here teaches that we CANNOT comprehend the Mind of God; and also seems to foresee the Seven Sacraments in some form

Isaiah 55: 6-9 "Seek the LORD while he may be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Part of the Mystery of the Seven Sacraments is that God both permits and encourages man to “DO THIS IN MEMEORY of Me” [1st Cor 11:23-30]… Each Sacrament requires man’s cooperation in order to be OFFERED the grace signifient by THAT Sacrament. It is the cooperation; this humble obedience; this FAITH in Christ Promises that apply to the term “merit.” …. I do hope this helps you?

Now don’t get me wrong. I do think that works earn rewards, both in this life and the life to come. However , a reward and grace are two different things. Grace is free, rewards are earned

Agreed. Which is why merit has to be understood not as a contradiction; rather as a mystery.

At any rate, I’ve enjoyed learning about Catholicism and have two books on the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism to be delivered tomorrow. My wife calls it my new obsession.

GREAT!

As a FYI; I recently published a book that may also be of interest to you. It is a systematic expression of many of the most basic and at times, misunderstood Catholic Teachings.

http://www.catholicandchristianbypatrickmiron.com/

ALSO I offer a TOTALLY FREE OF ALL COST home study E-Mailed Course that includes everything and A- LOT more that is in the book, if you’re interested just let me know.

May the Holy Spirit Guide your path!

Blessings,
Patrick

 

[Padres1969]

PJM, perhaps you can answer me this one. I’ve noticed it here on CA more than elsewhere, but I’ve noted it on occasion in the real world as well… scrupulosity. I’ve never seen members of another religion have as much of an issue with being overly scrupulous as I come across with a subset of Catholics. The question, “is this a sin?” for things that are clearly not sins or if they are sins are easily repented of and absolved through confession… seems to get asked far too often.

It makes no sense to me, particularly with Catholicism’s sacrament of reconciliation being readily available to wipe it away from a repentant soul.

 

[Rosebud77]

PJM, perhaps you can answer me this one. I’ve noticed it here on CA more than elsewhere, but I’ve noted it on occasion in the real world as well… scrupulosity. I’ve never seen members of another religion have as much of an issue with being overly scrupulous as I come across with a subset of Catholics. The question, “is this a sin?” for things that are clearly not sins or if they are sins are easily repented of and absolved through confession… seems to get asked far too often.

It makes no sense to me, particularly with Catholicism’s sacrament of reconciliation being readily available to wipe it away from a repentant soul.

Maybe one leads to the other; chicken or egg first (meaning no disrespect with that analogy)

 

[PJM]

PJM, perhaps you can answer me this one. I’ve noticed it here on CA more than elsewhere, but I’ve noted it on occasion in the real world as well… scrupulosity. I’ve never seen members of another religion have as much of an issue with being overly scrupulous as I come across with a subset of Catholics. The question, “is this a sin?” for things that are clearly not sins or if they are sins are easily repented of and absolved through confession… seems to get asked far too often.

It makes no sense to me, particularly with Catholicism’s sacrament of reconciliation being readily available to wipe it away from a repentant soul.

GREAT question, and I’m not fully qualified to answer it

Your speaking of a disease with GREATLY minimalists the degree of culpability. [GUILT}

One suffering from such a condition would have a MORAL obligation to at least try to control it; perhaps even to over come it.

Those so inflicted should make appointments with their pastor and or Confessor to discuss ways and means to do so.

Is it a sin? Yes but in the vast-majority of cases NOT a Mortal sin. [1 John 5: 16-17] which requires

1 Serious matter

2 PRE-knowledge that the considered act WILL be a Mortal Sin

3 The FREEWILL desire to do it ANYWAY… This last condition is most unlikely to be present.

Thanks for asking

Continued blessings

Patrick, thanks for asking

 

[Padres1969]

Rosebud77:
Maybe one leads to the other; chicken or egg first (meaning no disrespect with that analogy)

You may be right. I mean the fact that Catholicism has such a focus on personal confession and repentance to clear the ledger so to speak would definitely be a reasonable thought as to the source of why so many Catholics are then scrupulous.

Other Christians are not “weighed down” by such issues given the mechanism they believe through which God’s forgiveness comes not requiring them to confess known mortal sins to a priest personally to have them forgiven.

 

[PJM]

You may be right. I mean the fact that Catholicism has such a focus on personal confession and repentance to clear the ledger so to speak would definitely be a reasonable thought as to the source of why so many Catholics are then scrupulous.

Other Christians are not “weighed down” by such issues given the mechanism they believe through which God’s forgiveness comes not requiring them to confess known mortal sins to a priest personally to have them forgiven.

Thanks for your POST

Your first point may be valid, though I personally with about 30 years of experience of Catholic Faith teaching, do not find it to be ALL that common, given the number of Catholics is One BILLION plus.

Your second point though would seem to indicate a lack of a FULL understanding of Catholic practice and the Why OF SAME.

From a informed Catholic perspective Sacramental Confession is both historically and Biblically God’s NORM, taught precisely and fully expected from everyone.

1 John 5: 16-17 teaches " If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

This ought to understood as being a warning to ALL souls, as it applies equally to all.

FROM FR HARDON’S CATHOLIC DICTIONARY

MORTAL SIN. An actual sin that destroys sanctifying grace and causes the supernatural death of the soul. Mortal sin is a turning away from God because of a seriously inordinate adherence to creatures that causes grave injury to a person’s rational nature and to the social order, and deprives the sinner of a right to heaven.

The terms mortal, deadly, grave, and serious applied to sin are synonyms, each with a slightly different implication. Mortal and deadly focus on the effects in the sinner, namely deprivation of the state of friendship with God; grave and serious refer to the importance of the matter in which a person offends God. But the Church never distinguishes among these terms as though they represented different kinds of sins. There is only one recognized correlative to mortal sin, and that is venial sin, which offends against God but does not cause the loss of one’s state of grace"

Even if this is denied this is God’s reality & applicable to ALL souls.

It is Jesus Himself who instituted the Sacrament of KNOWN FORGIVENESS of ones sins

John.20 to 19-23 "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” ** When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.**” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If YOU forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if YOU retain the sins of any, they are retained.” {IF you doubt this READ Mt 10:1-2]

Was this a “Jesus invention”? NO it is not

What Jesus choose to do was follow OT Tradition and PERFECT it

Exodus 28:1
Take unto thee also Aaron thy brother with his sons, from among the children of Israel, that they may minister to me in the priest’ s office: Aaron, Nadab, and Abiu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

Leviticus 5:16
And he shall make good the damage itself which he hath done, and shall add the fifth part besides, delivering it to the priest, who shall pray for him, offering the ram, and it shall be forgiven him.

The DIFFERENCE being in the OT times [pre-grace] the priest forgave the sins and by “covering them over.” which God AT THAT TIME found to be sufficient.

BUT now under grace with HIS Ordained Priesthood; GOD DEMANDS Sacramental Confession as HIS NORM.

So from our Catholic perspective based on history & the Bible; we find the non-Catholic innovations for sin forgiveness THEIR WAY to be of questionable merit…

Sacramental Confession remains the ONLY GOD approved way as His NORM for sin forgiveness. The ONLY other acceptable way as a EXCEPTION to the NORM is an act of literally PERFECT Contrition; and only God is able to judge whether one has met ALL of the requirements for God to extend His Mercy based on what Mortal men have invented and DEMAND that he GOD, accept, rather than humble obedience to His clear, precise Teachings.

God Bless you

Patrick