What exactly is the knowledge of good and evil?

[friardchips]

I’m really not able to define evil, therefore, I’m not able to really know what is good and what is evil, but I’m able to point at certain things, like abortion, and say it is evil. I also contend that our world is good and evil, which makes discernment especially difficult.

Think about what ‘time’ actually is in the greater context and you might then be able to theoretically define evil from tangible reality. Which is what I think you are trying to do (?)

 

[friardchips]

Robert had already mentioned that he was able to distinguish between evil and good actions. You state that things aren’t evil in themselves; but that it all depends on how you use them (in other words, it depends on your actions). It certainly happens that when you try to find evil in things, you simply don’t find it, but what happens when we consider their “situation”?

He has been a bit vague because he is unsure.

Things are just ‘things’ for the most part that we can use for good or bad, moderately or indulgently; however, there have been things made which could be considered devices for evil because of the intention behind their production, and their functionality, and market, which further makes the intention possible - good inspirations and evil inspirations:

Evil Designs:

Narcotics.

Nuclear arms (let’s not ruin the thread with this topic now) and weapons of torture.

Adult websites and contraceptives.

Equipment designed for killing unborn babies.

Communism and other forms of dictatorship.

Freemasons

The Lucifer ‘Church’ mad

Gay marriage

Good Designs

Funny, but when I try and think of out and out good designs I can only think of our Creator’s designs…

People

Animals and nature

Sacraments and Himself.

Our Lady

Saints

Prayers

Ewoks.

He has given us the building bricks!

Either we build literally in and with the Holy Sprit or we destroy in the spirit of evil and side with the father of all lies.

You have mentioned “culture”, and “capitalism”, and “materialism”. Those are complex systems of things, and as such systems they induce or strengthen certain tendencies, certain attitudes and desires in their human members.

In of themselves they are ‘complex systems of things’ but I mentioned them in relationship to one another in a specific context. They ‘produce’ as you say (in bold).

If those tendencies, attitudes and desires are associated to that class of actions which you and Robert are able to identify as evil, we could say that the systems inducing them are evil themselves.

There can be evil systems based on evil inspirations but if no one joins the club then they are obsolete unless forced upon others. This ‘forcing’ is quite a wide brush when taking into account ‘manipulation’ and ‘propaganda’. Lies. And who is the ‘Father of Lies’?

So, isolated things are not evil, but when they integrate complex systems a new situation arises: They become machines which continuously trigger certain classes of actions. Within them, individual things acquire certain meanings and a more or less defined set of their possibilities is enabled. Individual things are not evil themselves, but they become evil within certain complex systems, because of the tendencies they enhance there, producing dangerous tensions and imbalances.

Nicely put.

Laws, rules, norms, cosmovisions play the role of giving shape to societies (complex systems) in order to avoid evil, in order to promote certain classes of actions and avoid others, or to establish limits to them; but sometimes some of them have adverse effects, and then we could say they are evil too.

Momentum.

Given the fact that you and Robert are able to distinguish between good and evil actions (which are the actuality of tendencies), I would say that a tendency, just because it is a tendency, is not evil. Evil is certain peculiarity of a given tendency; but what is such peculiarity and why does it “exist”?

Have to give this one more thought! uch: Habits can be evil. If that is what you mean?

 

[OneSheep]

Things are just ‘things’ for the most part that we can use for good or bad, moderately or indulgently; however, there have been things made which could be considered devices for evil because of the intention behind their production, and their functionality, and market, which further makes the intention possible - good inspirations and evil inspirations:

Evil Designs:

Hi friardchips (Is that Friar D. Chips or fried chips? )

I was going to not respond on anything on the forum here today, but I have to bite on this one. Intention behind production? Let’s look at the intention behind production of these.

Narcotics.

Like alcohol, I think you are referring to recreational use. The intention is to make money on a product that people enjoy. Yes, there is a lot of blindness involved, but people do not produce the stuff intending harm. It’s like making cigarettes, producers must have a set of rationalizations to shield their consciences, protecting the good intent.

Nuclear arms (let’s not ruin the thread with this topic now) and weapons of torture.

All weapons of war are intended to protect people. Yes, there is also the wealth factor, and the same blindness going on with no. 1. The keeping of them as a threat may help prevent war, even though I disagree with such keeping, and this bolsters the “good intent”. Manufacturers do not choose to actually use the weapons. The choice to use them is also well-intended, but involves a great deal of resentment-induced blindness.

Adult websites and contraceptives.

Like narcotics, the producers of these websites are catering to demand for something they enjoy, and mean no harm. Like narcotics, those who want the product are enslaved by their passions and are not living an eternal life.

Those who use contraceptives are intending to avoid pregnancy, and such avoidance is because of fear or wanting to be in control of their parental status. Yes, adultery itself is evil, but the intentions behind it are not evil, there is something good that the participants want.

Equipment designed for killing unborn babies.

Most players in the abortion scene do not see value in the unborn. They are ignorant. So, once that is established, those involved in convenience abortions are simply providing a service, removing something unwanted, like a tumor.(ugh) It is blatant ignorance, but the services are well-intended once the ignorance is understood.

Communism and other forms of dictatorship.

First of all, true communism is not a dictatorship. You must be thinking of the type of socialism found in some totalitarian governments. Like all governments, the intent is to lead the nation toward prosperity. Let me tell you, sometimes I think we in the U.S. would be better off with an honest and benevolent dictator than with our government bribed (lobbied) left and right by special interests.

Freemasons

These people are reacting to something (the Church) they see as evil and not benevolent.

The Lucifer ‘Church’ mad

These people are doing the same, and like freemasons, there is plenty of blindness and lack of awareness involved. Those involved in demonic worship want to be free to be enslaved by their nature. Yes, it is ignorance.

Gay marriage

We can establish as a Church that this is wrong, but I simply cannot find even a inkling of bad intent on this one. As an affront to the Church, maybe? People who participate in Gay marriage are saying that the Church does not have the moral stance on the topic. People are behaving according to their own consciences.

Did I miss something? Is there an aspect of “intention” that I am not addressing? Oh, I realize that I did not address completely the “market” in all cases. I can if you want. And the functionality? Actions can be evil, yes, but there is always good intent.

God Bless.

 

[friardchips]

Hi friardchips (Is that Friar D. Chips or fried chips? )

Fried chips with a play on friar (not a friar).

Like alcohol, I think you are referring to recreational use. The intention is to make money on a product that people enjoy. Yes, there is a lot of blindness involved, but people do not produce the stuff intending harm. It’s like making cigarettes, producers must have a set of rationalizations to shield their consciences, protecting the good intent.

Maybe in some cases, but not in all. Many drug producers in inner cities don’t care about the quality. And many die as a result. People have consciences though ignorant and darkened ones. Every human is born with some kind of moral inkling. Whether or not there is good at the start of all evil is another matter, but there is such a thing as evil. The reality of what we experience as ‘evil’ exists.

All weapons of war are intended to protect people.

Not all weapons of war are designed to protect. Some devices may be designed for getting info. for a greater good, but there have existed implements of torture that were not designed for good. Maybe for sick fun. With reason, even the search for fun, is a reach for something more. But it still leads to an evil act. Even when allowing for the initial subconscious desire, before distortion.

Yes, there is also the wealth factor, and the same blindness going on with no. 1. The keeping of them as a threat may help prevent war, even though I disagree with such keeping, and this bolsters the “good intent”. Manufacturers do not choose to actually use the weapons. The choice to use them is also well-intended, but involves a great deal of resentment-induced blindness.

You are giving a lot of free reign. It is helpful in that this means we cannot judge other’s souls yet we can judge actions. The action is either good or evil (with or without a deeper perspective) otherwise we could not discern between what to protect and what not to. You are judging the soul, although in a non-condemning way, but judging you are, because you are saying that no person commits outright evil, and while this might be true in that the reasons why they committed evil were initially of a need or desire to be loved, the initial ‘intention’ can be a selfish one and so in need of education and/or correction as well as the manifestation of the intention - IMO. Our intentions can be distorted. I think the evil goes deeper than intention - Original Sin or the scars left behind from OS. And this is one reason why we leave judging the soul to our Creator.

Like narcotics, the producers of these websites are catering to demand for something they enjoy, and mean no harm. Like narcotics, those who want the product are enslaved by their passions and are not living an eternal life.

True, from the perspective that they enjoy producing it, making money from it etc…although there is a lot of trafficking that goes on behind the scenes. I would not say they don’t necessarily mean harm. Maybe they just want to do what they do and be free to cause harm.

Most people possibly don’t intend to do evil but are committing evil anyway. I’d say many know they are doing evil when they do it. However, ignorance plays a big part. If I turn my back on the Creator AFTER I have been enlightened then the sin is very grave. But still, those who do great evil in the world, do go to Hell even if they have not been enlightened, apparently, and so, people do commit evil and because they can go to Hell means that they don’t do these things completely by accident.

Those who use contraceptives are intending to avoid pregnancy, and such avoidance is because of fear or wanting to be in control of their parental status. Yes, adultery itself is evil, but the intentions behind it are not evil, there is something good that the participants want.

There is such a thing as evil intent. One needs to know what this is in order to define evil more broadly.

…

 

[friardchips]

Originally Posted by OneSheep:

Most players in the abortion scene do not see value in the unborn. They are ignorant. So, once that is established, those involved in convenience abortions are simply providing a service, removing something unwanted, like a tumor.(ugh) It is blatant ignorance, but the services are well-intended once the ignorance is understood.

Many abortion doctors became addicted to making easy and quick money and this gained momentum in their lives. The initial desire might have been greed. But whether there was any good impulse before is for our Creator to know. If our Creator did not exist then Hell wouldn’t either. So it is a point. But in life we preserve life as a duty, and purposeful destruction, on any level, sends us to a state of eternal dying unless we say sorry. So, as another poster said much earlier when interpreting (one of) the reasons for Genesis - it is not for us to know what is good or evil. We instead, abide by His commandments and Beattitudes, with a view to living in a responsibly caring and grateful way. And leave the eternal judgments to Him.

First of all, true communism is not a dictatorship. You must be thinking of the type of socialism found in some totalitarian governments. Like all governments, the intent is to lead the nation toward prosperity. Let me tell you, sometimes I think we in the U.S. would be better off with an honest and benevolent dictator than with our government bribed (lobbied) left and right by special interests.

Dictatorship is wrong. Whether Western style freedoms are not just another form of dictatorship in disguise is another matter. I tend to hope we are aiming for something more positive though.

These people are reacting to something (the Church) they see as evil and not benevolent.

If they mean no harm, then they could do this in their own backyard, but they are not, they are making it public and giving people the opportunity to die an eternal death.

The inner-most reasons within their psyche as to why they do this are for our Creator to know but when it comes to having hope for all then it is best to hope that all people can heal. Even ones who wish to make worshipping the means to eternal death absolute - they probably don’t understand this (unless they are to some degree possessed by demons).

These people are doing the same, and like freemasons, there is plenty of blindness and lack of awareness involved. Those involved in demonic worship want to be free to be enslaved by their nature. Yes, it is ignorance.

FMs denounce the dogmas of the Church. And they threaten those who wish to leave. They are motivated by evil. Their intentions are evil. Beyond those intentions we leave to our Creator to heal directly or through our (name removed by moderator)ut. But we are to know that Freemasons are representative of an evil (however you want to define it).

I would say, that which proactively leads one and/or others away from our Creator, is evil. We all commit evil to some degree, day in and day out, but our Creator works with who we are. As long as we are, on some level, putting ourselves into His hands for Him to mould us then we can be sanctified. This is difficult, on any level, if we purposefully oppose, to whatever level of ignorance.

We can establish as a Church that this is wrong, but I simply cannot find even a inkling of bad intent on this one. As an affront to the Church, maybe? People who participate in Gay marriage are saying that the Church does not have the moral stance on the topic. People are behaving according to their own consciences.

Moral truth is not relative. Truth is Eternal. It is only relative according to whether people understand or adhere to the truth or not.

Did I miss something? Is there an aspect of “intention” that I am not addressing? Oh, I realize that I did not address completely the “market” in all cases. I can if you want. And the functionality? Actions can be evil, yes, but there is always good intent.

God Bless.

In response to this last paragraph, I suggest thinking about what ‘time’ actually is.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[JuanFlorencio]

I’m really not able to define evil, therefore, I’m not able to really know what is good and what is evil, but I’m able to point at certain things, like abortion, and say it is evil. I also contend that our world is good and evil, which makes discernment especially difficult.

“For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.”

“And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was taken. And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”

But even expelled from paradise, “the knowledge of good and evil” was not taken away from men and women. Therefore, you must have it as it was “understood” by the sacred writer. What is the nature of such knowledge? Plato used to say “if you know it, then you can say it”. Is it a scientific knowledge, or a philosophical one, or mythical, or theoretical in any other sense so as to enable you to provide a perfect definition of “evil” that you can then say?

No, obviously it is not. You don’t possess any definition. Your knowledge is not of the kind Plato was referring to.

Your knowledge of “good” and “evil” is not a theoretical one; but any “theoretical knowledge” of them has to be based on your non-conceptual “knowledge”. What can it be? To respond, we have to become theoretical; so, anything we say will be necessarily “inexact”.

The only non-conceptual knowledge which in my opinion can be the basis for any theoretical knowledge of “good” and “evil” is our ability to become separated from every other being; that is to say, our self-awareness. Adam became separated from Eve who used to be bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh; two in one flesh. Now, she was “the woman that God had given to him”, certainly as his companion; but now she had become “the other”, to whom he could betray, or abandon, or lie to, or desire, or dominate, or abuse… And Cain was able to kill his brother, “the other”, his enemy. Both Adam and Eve had become separated from God, and so they became expelled from paradise.

No doubt there is “good” and “evil” in our world; and no doubt that our world is continuously becoming; but how could “good” and “evil” collaborate with each other?

 

[OneSheep]

Many abortion doctors became addicted to making easy and quick money and this gained momentum in their lives. The initial desire might have been greed. But whether there was any good impulse before is for our Creator to know. If our Creator did not exist then Hell wouldn’t either. So it is a point. But in life we preserve life as a duty, and purposeful destruction, on any level, sends us to a state of eternal dying unless we say sorry. So, as another poster said much earlier when interpreting (one of) the reasons for Genesis - it is not for us to know what is good or evil. We instead, abide by His commandments and Beattitudes, with a view to living in a responsibly caring and grateful way. And leave the eternal judgments to Him.

Dictatorship is wrong. Whether Western style freedoms are not just another form of dictatorship in disguise is another matter. I tend to hope we are aiming for something more positive though.

If they mean no harm, then they could do this in their own backyard, but they are not, they are making it public and giving people the opportunity to die an eternal death.

The inner-most reasons within their psyche as to why they do this are for our Creator to know but when it comes to having hope for all then it is best to hope that all people can heal. Even ones who wish to make worshipping the means to eternal death absolute - they probably don’t understand this (unless they are to some degree possessed by demons).

FMs denounce the dogmas of the Church. And they threaten those who wish to leave. They are motivated by evil. Their intentions are evil. Beyond those intentions we leave to our Creator to heal directly or through our (name removed by moderator)ut. But we are to know that Freemasons are representative of an evil (however you want to define it).

I would say, that which proactively leads one and/or others away from our Creator, is evil. We all commit evil to some degree, day in and day out, but our Creator works with who we are. As long as we are, on some level, putting ourselves into His hands for Him to mould us then we can be sanctified. This is difficult, on any level, if we purposefully oppose, to whatever level of ignorance.

Moral truth is not relative. Truth is Eternal. It is only relative according to whether people understand or adhere to the truth or not.

In response to this last paragraph, I suggest thinking about what ‘time’ actually is.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[OneSheep]

Fried chips with a play on friar (not a friar).

Maybe in some cases, but not in all. Many drug producers in inner cities don’t care about the quality. And many die as a result. People have consciences though ignorant and darkened ones. Every human is born with some kind of moral inkling. Whether or not there is good at the start of all evil is another matter, but there is such a thing as evil. The reality of what we experience as ‘evil’ exists.

Okay, you ready for a retort?

We experience harm and people’s poor choices. The next question with the drug producers would be “Why do some inner-city drug producers not care about quality?” Answer: For one, they don’t care about continuing to sell the stuff, and also they don’t care about a few people getting sick or even dying. These are people who have a serious empathy disability, only caring about a short-term slug of money.

Not all weapons of war are designed to protect. Some devices may be designed for getting info. for a greater good, but there have existed implements of torture that were not designed for good. Maybe for sick fun. With reason, even the search for fun, is a reach for something more. But it still leads to an evil act. Even when allowing for the initial subconscious desire, before distortion.

Implements of torture are designed to either punish, which is a perceived good, or to get information, which is also a perceived good. Yes, those are evil acts.

You are giving a lot of free reign. It is helpful in that this means we cannot judge other’s souls yet we can judge actions. The action is either good or evil (with or without a deeper perspective) otherwise we could not discern between what to protect and what not to. You are judging the soul, although in a non-condemning way, but judging you are, because you are saying that no person commits outright evil, and while this might be true in that the reasons why they committed evil were initially of a need or desire to be loved, the initial ‘intention’ can be a selfish one and so in need of education and/or correction as well as the manifestation of the intention - IMO. Our intentions can be distorted. I think the evil goes deeper than intention - Original Sin or the scars left behind from OS. And this is one reason why we leave judging the soul to our Creator.

Mr. Chips, I dare say I did not judge a soul in the way the Gospel calls us not to judge, which means condemnation. And no, I did not say that no person commits outright evil, I am fairly confident that we would agree on evil acts.

True, from the perspective that they enjoy producing it, making money from it etc…although there is a lot of trafficking that goes on behind the scenes. I would not say they don’t necessarily mean harm. Maybe they just want to do what they do and be free to cause harm.

Most people possibly don’t intend to do evil but are committing evil anyway. I’d say many know they are doing evil when they do it. However, ignorance plays a big part. If I turn my back on the Creator AFTER I have been enlightened then the sin is very grave. But still, those who do great evil in the world, do go to Hell even if they have not been enlightened, apparently, and so, people do commit evil and because they can go to Hell means that they don’t do these things completely by accident.

Traffickers are business people, if they cause harm it hurts business. Ignorance plays a big part, and then blindness fills in the rest when it comes to understanding why people harm one another.

There is such a thing as evil intent. One needs to know what this is in order to define evil more broadly.

So, if there is such a thing, give an example. We can analyze the situation!

continued…

 

[OneSheep]

Many abortion doctors became addicted to making easy and quick money and this gained momentum in their lives. The initial desire might have been greed. But whether there was any good impulse before is for our Creator to know.

No doctor I know makes “easy money”. They work hard. Yes, greed can blind people to the humanity of victims. But doctors who do abortions want to serve people, their intent is good, even if they are blind.

If our Creator did not exist then Hell wouldn’t either. So it is a point. But in life we preserve life as a duty, and purposeful destruction, on any level, sends us to a state of eternal dying unless we say sorry. So, as another poster said much earlier when interpreting (one of) the reasons for Genesis - it is not for us to know what is good or evil. We instead, abide by His commandments and Beattitudes, with a view to living in a responsibly caring and grateful way. And leave the eternal judgments to Him.

As you said, it is for us to have a well-informed conscience and know acts of good and evil.

Dictatorship is wrong. Whether Western style freedoms are not just another form of dictatorship in disguise is another matter. I tend to hope we are aiming for something more positive though.

I missed that part about dictatorship in the 10 commandments. There have been many dictatorships that were just as beneficent as common democracies. It’s not so black and white.

If they mean no harm, then they could do this in their own backyard, but they are not, they are making it public and giving people the opportunity to die an eternal death.

The inner-most reasons within their psyche as to why they do this are for our Creator to know but when it comes to having hope for all then it is best to hope that all people can heal. Even ones who wish to make worshipping the means to eternal death absolute - they probably don’t understand this (unless they are to some degree possessed by demons).

Devil-worshipers don’t believe that they are leading people to death or causing harm. If they did, then it would be because of blindness or ignorance.

FMs denounce the dogmas of the Church. And they threaten those who wish to leave. They are motivated by evil. Their intentions are evil. Beyond those intentions we leave to our Creator to heal directly or through our (name removed by moderator)ut. But we are to know that Freemasons are representative of an evil (however you want to define it).

I would say, that which proactively leads one and/or others away from our Creator, is evil. We all commit evil to some degree, day in and day out, but our Creator works with who we are. As long as we are, on some level, putting ourselves into His hands for Him to mould us then we can be sanctified. This is difficult, on any level, if we purposefully oppose, to whatever level of ignorance.

They denounce the dogmas because they see them as untrue. Why do they threaten those who wish to leave? That would be something to investigate before condemning FMs as “motivated by evil” or “having evil intent”. What is their intent with such threats? If you can, answer that question.

Yes, such leading away is evil, but why would a person proactively lead someone away from our Creator?

Moral truth is not relative. Truth is Eternal. It is only relative according to whether people understand or adhere to the truth or not.

Yes.

In response to this last paragraph, I suggest thinking about what ‘time’ actually is.

Thanks for the replies!

Time?

Time to go back to work!

Returned forehand a bit high, but still quite a quick ball to hit! Its in your court!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

No doctor I know makes “easy money”. They work hard. Yes, greed can blind people to the humanity of victims. But doctors who do abortions want to serve people, their intent is good, even if they are blind.

Devil-worshipers don’t believe that they are leading people to death or causing harm. If they did, then it would be because of blindness or ignorance.

You are way off base. Nothing you just said makes any sense at all. Devil worshippers are basically good people?? All doctors are good and have good intentions even though they are willfully killing people???

 

[OneSheep]

You are way off base. Nothing you just said makes any sense at all. Devil worshippers are basically good people??

Hi Christine,

I don’t advise reacting to everything at once, there. All people are created by God and are well-intended, even though they may be blind and ignorant. Devil worshipers are blind. They are perceiving God’s goodness as enslaving or something bad. So, in a desire for freedom they react to all discipline and morality. Theirs is some serious blindness and ignorance, but the desire for freedom comes from our nature, which is from God. Their intent is freedom and self-fulfillment, but the mindset is far into untruth.

If one starts with the question “why would a person worship the devil?” and then seek to understand rather than condemn, the answers will come forth in prayer. Understanding is a part of forgiveness.

All doctors are good and have good intentions even though they are willfully killing people???

Doctors who do “convenience abortions” do not value the lives of the unborn. They are blind, ignorant, or both. Their intent is to save a woman from the stress of a pregnancy, but they do not consider the rights of the unborn. The unborn is not considered human. It is a “fetus” etc.

Some doctors who are not blind or ignorant have the horrible task of saving a woman’s life by performing an abortion. Thank God, these procedures have become more rare over the years!

St. Augustine:
“It is through the Spirit that we see that whatsoever exists in any way is good.”

I know that it’s a tough pill to swallow, Christine. I understand. Feel free to ask more questions.

 

[JuanFlorencio]

Have to give this one more thought! uch: Habits can be evil. If that is what you mean?

Certainly, those habits that we call “vices” are evil, and it is clear that they are certain tendencies or mechanisms of action. In my opinion, those habits deserve to be called “evil” because they intensify “separation” and even establish “opposition” among us. It is common knowledge that those mechanisms are based on other more basic tendencies (which nevertheless are evidently the result of complex organic structures too), like hunger, sexual desire, etcetera. Within a community we need to work with those basic tendencies in order to minimize “opposition”, and even to promote “collaboration” with others. In other words, our basic natural tendencies can be informed in such a way as to develop in us cultural tendencies which favor or produce communion among us.

I had mentioned that “evil” does not appear when we analyze things isolated from every context. It is within the context of a complex cultural system where “evil” becomes apparent. Something similar happens in relation to our actions. Usually, “evil” does not appear when we look at the intentions behind our actions: It would seem that we are always looking for some “good”, something that provides satisfaction to our impetus and calms them. But the “separation” and “opposition” that might arise as a result of our actions is readily understood. Cultural context (specifically the communitarian aspect of culture) is a requisite to identify “evil”.

I got the impression that this “looking for something”, or “tendency” in general, which exists in the whole of the universe was interpreted by Robert as “evil”. That is why I said that it it is not precisely this character which constitutes “evil” (“a tendency just because it is a tendency”). The peculiarity which, in my opinion, constitutes a tendency as an “evil” is its ability to disaggregate a community.

 

[friardchips]

Okay, you ready for a retort?

We experience harm and people’s poor choices. The next question with the drug producers would be “Why do some inner-city drug producers not care about quality?” Answer: For one, they don’t care about continuing to sell the stuff, and also they don’t care about a few people getting sick or even dying. These are people who have a serious empathy disability, only caring about a short-term slug of money.

Yes, they suffer with evil inclinations. That is all we need to know. And hope they can, for their sake, and for the sake of others, learn and change, just as we hope for ourselves.

Implements of torture are designed to either punish, which is a perceived good, or to get information, which is also a perceived good. Yes, those are evil acts.

Revenge and torture is not up to humanity to dish out except where there is just defence or a just war is the only option. Whether or not you perceive such implements to have initially been thought up to be of service for something constructive, or not.

The end does not justify the means.

Mr. Chips, I dare say I did not judge a soul in the way the Gospel calls us not to judge, which means condemnation. And no, I did not say that no person commits outright evil, I am fairly confident that we would agree on evil acts.

I didn’t mean that you were intentionally judging! But by saying that you know that people do things out of goodwill initially, this acclamation becomes a sort of judgement, of the soul. But for argument’s sake, let’s say your statement is an inspired assertion, so, as a wise person said today, we are all, everyone, hoping for “happiness”, and this is every person’s innermost desire. We do agree there are evil acts and I go further and say that there can be evil inspirations and so evil intentions as there can be evil thoughts and evil dreams - our very motivations can be evil, depending on how you term evil; nevertheless, neither of us disagree that every single human being that has ever lived, who does live, or that will live, will not desire, before they are at the stage of understanding “what happiness is” (to badly quote this same person again), “happiness”. This allows is to have hope for all people. I would say that most people don’t intend to do bad things but end up going down strange paths and become entangled in their own mess. You’d probably agree?!

Traffickers are business people, if they cause harm it hurts business. Ignorance plays a big part, and then blindness fills in the rest when it comes to understanding why people harm one another.

Ruthlessness can go deep. I would not sum up traffickers by giving them a label. In the cases of various crimes against humanity, to be brought back from such a spiral of evil, and such a wall of “blindness” (as you say), takes miracles. But I believe in miracles. And what, with it being All Saint’s Day, not a better day to say it!

So, if there is such a thing, give an example. We can analyze the situation!

continued…

In terms of info. on slavery, there are a host of charitable organisations from which we can learn - The Medaille Trust is just one. Read the first hand accounts of victims. However, St. Paul helps us by saying not to look directly at the storm, or focus on the storm, but to instead focus on the Cross. This way, we always have hope that people, no what matter what the circumstance, can change, just as we hold that same hope for ourselves. And sometimes we might then be in the right place at the right time to participate in bringing those changes about.

…

 

[friardchips]

No doctor I know makes “easy money”. They work hard. Yes, greed can blind people to the humanity of victims. But doctors who do abortions want to serve people, their intent is good, even if they are blind.

Are you a doctor? This book is not as widely read as it could (or should) be:

'The Hand of God’ by Bernard N. Nathanson M.D

• please read this, it is quite short, and it is not that expensive.

As you said, it is for us to have a well-informed conscience and know acts of good and evil.

It is up to us to participate in spiritual growth for a well-formed conscience, all generously given to us via grace.

I missed that part about dictatorship in the 10 commandments. There have been many dictatorships that were just as beneficent as common democracies. It’s not so black and white.

Only if you make excuses for apparent grey areas. Anyone who infringes upon the Creator-given right to freedom - especially to worship Love and pay homage - commits an evil act, whether continuing, or for a short time period. And any person who oppresses their people and forces them into living a certain way via less-than-good means, commits or is committing evil, and any form of government who murders, manipulates, steals, lies etc…while in the seat of rulership commits evil or is committing evil, and any ruler who does not understand the holiness and sanctity of life and while being ** culpably** ignorant behaves in such a way that does not protect the rights of people according to true and just laws for the common good, commits evil or is committing evil.

I would most definitely not suggest (though the devil might) going to live in Russia or the Middle East, and then analysing to what degree your opinion might have changed, or grown, upon arrival back home.

Devil-worshipers don’t believe that they are leading people to death or causing harm. If they did, then it would be because of blindness or ignorance.

And evil inspirations. The devil puts ideas into people’s heads. “Blindness and ignorance” can be used as an excuse for a lot in life - intentionally or unintentionally. I would however, leave these things up to our Creator to judge, and concentrate on having hope for all. But don’t be complacent either. And this doesn’t mean standing still, unless you wish to be a contemplative monk, but even then, prayer is active.

They denounce the dogmas because they see them as untrue. Why do they threaten those who wish to leave? That would be something to investigate before condemning FMs as “motivated by evil” or “having evil intent”. What is their intent with such threats? If you can, answer that question.

I have read accounts of Freemasons. Try finding the edition of a magazine called: ‘Love One Another Magazine’. There was an article in there about this guy who was a Grandmaster of a particular ranch of FMs, or whatever you call these places, and was converted to Christianity when in a Chapel at Lourdes. FMs may think of the Dogmas of the Church as untrue, but such false inspiration and beliefs, are inspired by evil and by the devil. Anyone who is consciously and especially militantly opposed to Our Lady is, on some level, inspired and confused by the devil. If you don’t believe in evil inspirations then you don’t believe in exorcisms. And if you don’t believe in the devil then you can’t understand the salvific work of our Saviour. Even if such and such a person thinks they are right, they are still a representation of evil, if they are purposefully opposing our Creator, because, to some degree or other, we all have some kind of moral compass, and even if this moral compass is battered and not working, we can still be judged by it. Original Sin did not render man absolutely evil and so unable to take account of our actions. It darkened our higher knowledge. Fortunately, humanity is offered the Mercy of our Creator, and this invitation is open to all.

Yes, such leading away is evil, but why would a person proactively lead someone away from our Creator?

Envy. Jealousy, spitefulness, greed etc…either way, people can and do. For selfish reasons. Whenever communism or fascism or any kind of supressive governmental system takes hold, the destruction of religious material is one of the first signs, of bad things to come. And any person who orchestrates such things is purposefully choosing to go against the Creator. In as much as one can intend to go against the Creator, if not making the excuses of “ignorance and blindness”, as you said. When all is said and done, if people receive and experience the forgiveness of the Creator, then it is likely that the destructive force of evil decreases, or lessens in severity, which is committed socially on a daily basis (I would guess, anyway), eventually leading to a ‘good’ life with no mortal sins committed.

Yes.

Time?

Time to go back to work!

Returned forehand a bit high, but still quite a quick ball to hit! Its in your court!

…at your service!

Happy All Saint’s Day!

Chips.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Hi Christine,

I don’t advise reacting to everything at once, there. All people are created by God and are well-intended, even though they may be blind and ignorant. Devil worshipers are blind. They are perceiving God’s goodness as enslaving or something bad. So, in a desire for freedom they react to all discipline and morality. Theirs is some serious blindness and ignorance, but the desire for freedom comes from our nature, which is from God. Their intent is freedom and self-fulfillment, but the mindset is far into untruth.

If one starts with the question “why would a person worship the devil?” and then seek to understand rather than condemn, the answers will come forth in prayer. Understanding is a part of forgiveness.

Doctors who do “convenience abortions” do not value the lives of the unborn. They are blind, ignorant, or both. Their intent is to save a woman from the stress of a pregnancy, but they do not consider the rights of the unborn. The unborn is not considered human. It is a “fetus” etc.

Some doctors who are not blind or ignorant have the horrible task of saving a woman’s life by performing an abortion. Thank God, these procedures have become more rare over the years!

St. Augustine:
“It is through the Spirit that we see that whatsoever exists in any way is good.”

I know that it’s a tough pill to swallow, Christine. I understand. Feel free to ask more questions.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to make excuses for people who are willfully turning to evil. A very very slippery slope.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Can anybody define “good” and “evil” as they pertain to our world? Simply saying that God is good and evil is the absence of good will not cut it for me.

 

[friardchips]

Can anybody define “good” and “evil” as they pertain to our world? Simply saying that God is good and evil is the absence of good will not cut it for me.

With all due respect, that is what we have been discussing throughout.

 

[Robert_Sock]

With all due respect, that is what we have been discussing throughout.

Please inform me when you guys come up with these definitions

 

[fhansen]

Please inform me when you guys come up with these definitions

Lets start with this. Evil cannot have an existence of it’s own, apart from good, because everything was originally created by God, and* everything *God created was/is good.

 

[friardchips]

Please inform me when you guys come up with these definitions

So from what fhansen just said: "Lets start with this. Evil cannot have an existence of it’s own, apart from good, because everything was originally created by God, and everything God created was/is good."

It was Lucifer who had been the most radiant Angel in Heaven and fell due to wanting to be as powerful as our Creator.

satan then tempted Adam and Eve who chose to fall out of weakness and curiosity.

In all cases, the choices were disobedient, selfish and ungrateful. Because satan, and also Adam and Eve were already in the presence of our Creator, they were in blessed states before they fell, and so I think that evil is ingratitude towards our Creator, to whatever degree, and for whatever reasons.

Because the ‘unforgivable sin’ is eternal ingratitude, this makes some sense.

If we look at the life of Our Lady, she was humble and obedient, adoring and hopeful, faith-filled and loving, and her soul was a mirror of the Holy Trinity, and I think her life can be described as eternally grateful.

Evil is (possibly) ingratitude to varying degrees - ingratitude towards our Creator and for our lives, ingratitude towards our Creator for those around us, and the good things we have been given, ingratitude towards our Creator for creation and all.