What has provoked muslim violence?

[Chris_LaRock]

I wish to know why muslims are willing to blow them selves up and
innocent people?

What provoked these actions?
What exactly did christians do to provoke all the violence?

What exactly did jews do?

What is realy going on in these countries?

They basically hate us for our support of Israel.

 

[Prodigal_Child]

The religion is really immaterial although it seems otherwise. Muslims battled the soviet union and it was athiest . Islam is not against Christianity and Judaism. As for the reasons of discontent, see the reasons that i posted above.
/QUOTE

Speaking during a press conference, Abu Al-Sa’id urged Palestinian resistance factions, particularly the Salah Addin Brigades of the PRC, to "kill Jews everywhere without waiting for permission.

Dr. Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi said, “We will kill Jews everywhere. There will be no security for any Jews, those who came from America, Russia or anywhere.”(Chicago Tribune July 23, 2002.)

 

[Prodigal_Child]

Really? Muslims really love life like everyone else? Hamas believes they will win because "We desire death like you [the Jews] desire life." Listen to it with your own ears: youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg

santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/11546/index.php
NB! the Fatah organization website (in Arabic) still calls openly for the “eradication” of Israel. This call echoes earlier genocidal codifications in the still unchanged Palestinian National Charter, in Fatah’s ongoing calls for Inqirad mujtama (the extinction of Israeli society), and in the Charter of Hamas (“There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad…I swear by that who holds in His Hands the Soul of Muhammad! I indeed wish to go to war for the sake of Allah! I will assault and kill, assault and kill, assault and kill.”)"

 

[dzheremi]

Blah. Israel. Come on, folks…let’s stop pretending that we’ve only started having problems with in our relations with Muslim countries and armies since c.1948. Have any of you ever heard of the Barbary wars? Here’s a wonderful little piece of history for you all concerning that conflict between the new nation of America and the Barbary states (modern North Africa, then under nominal Ottoman rule):

"In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli’s envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring “concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury”, the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once." ([link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War)}

Please note that I am NOT saying that all Muslims think like the above, but there is more than enough backing via historical examples such as this one to substantiate the claim that this is at least a (if not the only) traditional view of Muslims, and a guiding principle in their foreign affairs. There are those, and they are not modern aberrations, as the above quote shows, who most definitely should like to see all the world under Islam by force, because it is so written in their book. As there can be no exegesis on the Qur’an at all (much less by non-believers like you and I), we’re all stuck with this reality of what the religion teaches. Muslims will bend over backwards to put into context the sorts of verses that the ambassador was speaking about, but there’s no way to contextualize away the history that shows the application of the principle. Muslims have to live with it, just as Christians have to live with a sometimes very ignoble and downright evil past. The difference, I suppose, is that those who feel that Christianity should forcibly rule the world are something of a minority nowadays, and not at all taken seriously in the Atheistic (or at least practicing Agnostic) West.

They hate us for the same reason they’ve always hated us. We don’t recognize their prophet and their religion as being from God.

As for hating “America”, elwill, balderdash. America, as the majority of the Middle East knows it, is a metaphysical enemy, only incidentally a physical location. Under other circumstances, we could all be “Americans”. I guess it is easy to look at another people like this. In the West, I suppose Muslims hold this same place for a lot of people, so the feeling is certainly mutual in some quarters.

 

[Catholic1990]

So you think a Christian is more justified in killing if he’s doing it in the name of Christ than if he does it because his gang leader told him to (turf war).

Very strange thinking there.

So you think a man killing because his gang leader told him to is more justifiable than killing in the name of Christ?

Very strange thinking there.

 

[Catholic1990]

meedo:
Pretty much… It’s easy for Westerners to judge the actions and motives of those living in the Third World because they have never had to experience some of the hellish things that go on there.

Despair, hunger, and abuse can make people do very terrible things.

 

[CWBetts]

Pretty much… It’s easy for Westerners to judge the actions and motives of those living in the Third World because they have never had to experience some of the hellish things that go on there.

Despair, hunger, and abuse can make people do very terrible things.

Spoken like a true relativist.

 

[Catholic1990]

Spoken like a true relativist.

It’s ok if Israel or the US does it.

Honestly, what would you do if you were starving, had no real hope for the future, and to top it off, some twit from Europe rolls into your home and tells you it’s their land after killing a few of your family members. Hell, if you wouldn’t feel a little resentful, I would have to check you for a pulse.

 

[CWBetts]

It’s ok if Israel or the US does it.

Honestly, what would you do if you were starving, had no real hope for the future, and to top it off, some twit from Europe rolls into your home and tells you it’s their land after killing a few of your family members. Hell, if you wouldn’t feel a little resentful, I would have to check you for a pulse.

Keep in mind that the West didn’t start any of this. Even the Crusades, the goal was to retake Jerusalem from the Muslims who had invaded. When Israel attacks, it is in RETALIATION. THat means they are attacking back. It would be nice if you were honest, and Identifies yourself as a Muslim instead of a Catholic. Again, I say why don’t you move to Iran, wjere you can live in a tyrannical “paradise”

 

[kalt]

So you think a man killing because his gang leader told him to is more justifiable than killing in the name of Christ?

No

Very strange thinking there.

When people say they’re fighting about religion, they’re usually fighting about lpolitical rights or land–or both. The ongoing fighting in Israel isn’t about Judaism vs Islam. It’s about land and who gets to use it and rule it. The religions are merely the excuses to make a so-called God-given claim to land.

But if you think a gang leader’s order to defend their turf is any different…

Funny, I bet the Israelis consider the Muslim leaders gang leaders, and the Muslims think of the Israeli leaders gang leaders.

It’s a turf war.

Using God as your excuse is really pathetic. What would God think of being used that way, do you think?

 

[Catholic1990]

Keep in mind that the West didn’t start any of this. Even the Crusades, the goal was to retake Jerusalem from the Muslims who had invaded. When Israel attacks, it is in RETALIATION. THat means they are attacking back. It would be nice if you were honest, and Identifies yourself as a Muslim instead of a Catholic. Again, I say why don’t you move to Iran, wjere you can live in a tyrannical “paradise”

It would be nice if you would just identify yourself as an atheist or as a Jew. I am Catholic, but God help me, I am starting to reconsider my faith because of people like you.

It doesn’t really matter who started any of it. The point is both sides continue to pour fuel on the fire, and neither side has made an honest attempt at peace.

Of course, if we had your way, we would have peace by mounds of corpses and rivers of blood. Stop lying to yourself about being Catholic, since you don’t hold any of the churches teachings on tolerance and peace to be true. Just come out as an atheist already.

 

[Catholic1990]

No

When people say they’re fighting about religion, they’re usually fighting about lpolitical rights or land–or both. The ongoing fighting in Israel isn’t about Judaism vs Islam. It’s about land and who gets to use it and rule it. The religions are merely the excuses to make a so-called God-given claim to land.

But if you think a gang leader’s order to defend their turf is any different…

Funny, I bet the Israelis consider the Muslim leaders gang leaders, and the Muslims think of the Israeli leaders gang leaders.

It’s a turf war.

Using God as your excuse is really pathetic. What would God think of being used that way, do you think?

So you do acknowledge that they are fighting over the land, and it’s not Islam vs. Judaism? About time one of you got honest.

Now if you could only come out with the truth that you really want that part of the world to be completely godless… I would be happy then.

 

[jakasaki]

Catholic1990

“Oh! The impious will see, when they see their chastisement, that all power is God’s, and that God is severe in chastising.”

~The Qu’ran, Sura II, Verse 163-165

For a Catholic, your signature is quite interesting. Strange that a Catholic would post something out of the koran as a user signature. It would be like a muslim posting a Bible verse for theirs.

I took the liberty to look up sura 2 - 163:165

163 And your Allah is One Allah. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

164 Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;-(Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.

165** Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah.: **They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty.

Tafsir of #165
…and that there is absolutely no room for any kind of interference or partnership, …

The “no room of interference/partnership” from allah, is refering to Jesus as we all know islam and koran deny Jesus divinity.

What has provoked muslim violence. Answer is simple. Everything provokes them and they want Israel because they once had it and now they want it back. God forbid the Jews have a little tiny state in the middle east.

Their goal is to spread islam and make everyone bow to allah and mohamad. World domination and submission and take all of us back into the 7th century.

 

[Catholic1990]

For a Catholic, your signature is quite interesting. Strange that a Catholic would post something out of the koran as a user signature. It would be like a muslim posting a Bible verse for theirs.

I took the liberty to look up sura 2 - 163:165

163 And your Allah is One Allah. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

164 Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;-(Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.

165** Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah.: **They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty.

Tafsir of #165
…and that there is absolutely no room for any kind of interference or partnership, …

The “no room of interference/partnership” from allah, is refering to Jesus as we all know islam and koran deny Jesus divinity.

What has provoked muslim violence. Answer is simple. Everything provokes them and they want Israel because they once had it and now they want it back. God forbid the Jews have a little tiny state in the middle east.

Their goal is to spread islam and make everyone bow to allah and mohamad. World domination and submission and take all of us back into the 7th century.

Of course, the Muslims also acknowledge that Jesus was at least from God. They do not deny him, even if they mistakenly deny his divinity.

In all honesty, what would the Arabians be if they were not Muslims? I would like any of you to answer that, because so far, no one has come up with an answer for me.

I promise I will shut up if at least one of you comes up with an idea for what they should be without Islam. Please, be realistic about it too.

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=Catholic1990;5274721]Of course, the Muslims also acknowledge that Jesus was at least from God. They do not deny him, even if they mistakenly deny his divinity.

To islam and muslims, Jesus is just another prophet. Yes, they DO NOT deny His existance, but the Isa/Jesus of islam is not Jesus Christ of our Bible and history.

In all honesty, what would the Arabians be if they were not Muslims? I would like any of you to answer that, because so far, no one has come up with an answer for me.

I do not understand your question. Way back in the 7th century, there were Arabian Jews, Arabian Christians, pagans and others. Each and everyone of them was happy with whatever religion and beliefs they had.

The prophet of islam tried to talk to these people of Arabia to accept him as a prophet and to accept allah and the new religion and they all laughed at him.

The Jews even put mohamads “prophetic” abilities to test and he failed.

I promise I will shut up if at least one of you comes up with an idea for what they should be without Islam. Please, be realistic about it too./QUOTE

No reason to “shut up”. This site/section does not silence people. We are here to talk about things.

The rise of islam through mohamad was accomplished by him raging wars on his neighbors. It didn’t matter to mohamad if you were a Christian or Jew or ther. It was his way or the highway. And he hated the Jews more than anything. I mean heck, even on his deathbed he “cursed the Jews and Christians” and told his “companions” to rid all of the them from Arabia.

Read about the islamic conquests of his time.

And they didn’t stop after they seized the entire Arabia area, they kept moving and branching out to Spain, Jerusalem, Greece, Persia, France… the list of countries and wars between islam and the rest of the world had started and it continues today.

Submit to islam or die.

 

[Catholic1990]

To islam and muslims, Jesus is just another prophet. Yes, they DO NOT deny His existance, but the Isa/Jesus of islam is not Jesus Christ of our Bible and history.

I do not understand your question. Way back in the 7th century, there were Arabian Jews, Arabian Christians, pagans and others. Each and everyone of them was happy with whatever religion and beliefs they had.

The prophet of islam tried to talk to these people of Arabia to accept him as a prophet and to accept allah and the new religion and they all laughed at him.

The Jews even put mohamads “prophetic” abilities to test and he failed.

No reason to “shut up”. This site/section does not silence people. We are here to talk about things.

The rise of islam through mohamad was accomplished by him raging wars on his neighbors. It didn’t matter to mohamad if you were a Christian or Jew or ther. It was his way or the highway. And he hated the Jews more than anything. I mean heck, even on his deathbed he “cursed the Jews and Christians” and told his “companions” to rid all of the them from Arabia.

Read about the islamic conquests of his time.

And they didn’t stop after they seized the entire Arabia area, they kept moving and branching out to Spain, Jerusalem, Greece, Persia, France… the list of countries and wars between islam and the rest of the world had started and it continues today.

Submit to islam or die.

I think it’s quite unrealistic to say that they got along before Islam came along, I am sure that they had brutal conflicts as well.

My question is what would they become in this modern day and age?

Catholics? No, the Church is a toothless lion these days, and it is too afraid to actively proselytize for fear of being ridiculed as forcing religion on people.

Protestants? Same problem as the church, only to a lesser degree.

The Jews? The Jews are having a hard enough time keeping people in their own faith, let alone finding converts.

Pagans? Don’t even make me laugh.

The only thing I could foresee for that region would be widespread atheism, and that is the last thing that region of the world needs. If you think it’s bad with religion holding back some atrocities, wait until they have nothing to hold them back at all. It’s not like atheist nations have a good track record anyways, even the less violent ones.

That’s just how I look at it.

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=Catholic1990;5274922]I think it’s quite unrealistic to say that they got along before Islam came along, I am sure that they had brutal conflicts as well.

There were always wars going on between tribes and nations. We all know that. But they were for possession of land and riches. Christianity wasn’t spread by the sword as a religion and neither was Judaism.

My question is what would they become in this modern day and age?

All of todays muslims were once Jews, Orthodox Christians, Catholics, pagans, atheists, et al…

Catholics? No, the Church is a toothless lion these days, and it is too afraid to actively proselytize for fear of being ridiculed as forcing religion on people.

I don’t know about that. I wouldn’t call the Church as a “toothless” lion. The problem in my eyes is that we have thrown away our values and principles and have become “politically correct” not to “offend” others.

Protestants? Same problem as the church, only to a lesser degree.

I know nothing about Protestants, cannot comment.

The Jews? The Jews are having a hard enough time keeping people in their own faith, let alone finding converts.

The interesting thing about the Jews is that from what I understand is they don’t try to convert anyone. They like to keep to themselves and if someone wants to join/convert to Judaism, well then let it be. But Jews do not proselytize.

Pagans? Don’t even make me laugh.

The only thing I could foresee for that region would be widespread atheism, and that is the last thing that region of the world needs. If you think it’s bad with religion holding back some atrocities, wait until they have nothing to hold them back at all. It’s not like atheist nations have a good track record anyways, even the less violent ones.

That’s just how I look at it./QUOTE

I don’t know anything about atheism and if it’s up to them, there would be no religion(s) at all. Atheists believe that without religion there would be no wars/conflicts.

I disagree. Even if got rid of ALL religions on the globe, man kind will continue to battle and fight for other reasons.

Mankind is the best of the creatures on God’s earth… and…
Mankind is the worst of the creatures on God’s earth…

 

[Catholic1990]

There were always wars going on between tribes and nations. We all know that. But they were for possession of land and riches. Christianity wasn’t spread by the sword as a religion and neither was Judaism.

All of todays muslims were once Jews, Orthodox Christians, Catholics, pagans, atheists, et al…

I don’t know about that. I wouldn’t call the Church as a “toothless” lion. The problem in my eyes is that we have thrown away our values and principles and have become “politically correct” not to “offend” others.

I know nothing about Protestants, cannot comment.

The interesting thing about the Jews is that from what I understand is they don’t try to convert anyone. They like to keep to themselves and if someone wants to join/convert to Judaism, well then let it be. But Jews do not proselytize.



I don’t know anything about atheism and if it’s up to them, there would be no religion(s) at all. Atheists believe that without religion there would be no wars/conflicts.

I disagree. Even if got rid of ALL religions on the globe, man kind will continue to battle and fight for other reasons.

Mankind is the best of the creatures on God’s earth… and…
Mankind is the worst of the creatures on God’s earth…

Hmmm… I suppose your right. Thanks for telling me how you view it without questioning my Catholicism.

 

[meedo]

Really? Muslims really love life like everyone else? Hamas believes they will win because "We desire death like you [the Jews] desire life." Listen to it with your own ears: youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg

when some one invades your country and takes your land , war is permissible. The palestinians didnt go to brooklyn and invade and deport Jews it was vice versa. Palestinians are in war with who took their country. in the time of war one shows his determination to fight by saying and expressing that he is not afraid to die, and that he will welcome death ifi t wil lkead to the cause of liberation of his country. people don’t blwo themselves up for no reason .

santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/11546/index.php
NB! the Fatah organization website (in Arabic) still calls openly for the “eradication” of Israel. This call echoes earlier genocidal codifications in the still unchanged Palestinian National Charter, in Fatah’s ongoing calls for Inqirad mujtama (the extinction of Israeli society), and in the Charter of Hamas (“There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad…I swear by that who holds in His Hands the Soul of Muhammad! I indeed wish to go to war for the sake of Allah! I will assault and kill, assault and kill, assault and kill.”)"

Israel was built on the disposession and depiortation of palestinians . It doesnt even allow the palestininas to live normally in their ancestral homeland. Therefore it is despised. Noty only by palestinians but by all its neighbours.

 

[jakasaki]

meedo:

Biblical texts - Palestine

Palestine (Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: פלשתינה‎ Palestina; Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn) is a name which has been widely used since Roman times to refer to the region that was earlier called Canaan, which spreads between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

It is derived from a name used already much earlier for a narrower geographical region, mainly along the coast.

In the Biblical account, the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah ruled from Jerusalem a vast territory extending far west and north of Palestine for some 120 years.

Archaeological evidence for this period is very rare, however, and its implications much disputed.

The Hebrew Bible calls the region Canaan (כּנען) (Numbers 34:1–12), while the part of it occupied by Israelites is designated Israel (Yisrael).

The name “Land of the Hebrews” (ארץ העברים, Eretz Ha-Ivrim) is also found, as well as several poetical names: “land flowing with milk and honey”, “land that [God] swore to your fathers to assign to you”, “Land of the Lord”, and the “Promised Land”.

The Land of Canaan is given a precise description in (Numbers 34:1) as including all of Lebanon, as well (Joshua 13:5).

The wide area appears to have been the home of several small nations such as the Canaanites, Hebrews, Hittites, Amorrhites, Pherezites, Hevites and Jebusites.

According to Hebrew tradition, the land of Canaan is part of the land given to the descendants of Abraham, which extends from the Nile to the Euphrates River (Genesis 15:18).

In Exodus 13:17, “And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt.”

The events of the Four Gospels of the Christian Bible take place almost entirely in this country, which in Christian tradition thereafter became known as The Holy Land.

This area region existed long before the rise of islam and mohamad. Just like every one state/region and nation mohamad raged wars and claimed it for islam, the same thing was done to the Biblical Palestine region.

It never belonged to islam or muslims - they took it and now that the Jews are living there, they want it back. I’ve said this before. - God forbit the Jews have a tiny little piece of home to call their own.