What has provoked muslim violence?

[CWBetts]

It would be nice if you would just identify yourself as an atheist or as a Jew. I am Catholic, but God help me, I am starting to reconsider my faith because of people like you.

It doesn’t really matter who started any of it. The point is both sides continue to pour fuel on the fire, and neither side has made an honest attempt at peace.

Of course, if we had your way, we would have peace by mounds of corpses and rivers of blood. Stop lying to yourself about being Catholic, since you don’t hold any of the churches teachings on tolerance and peace to be true. Just come out as an atheist already.

I hold to the Just War Doctrine. I also belive God meant what he said about blessing those who support Israel and curse those who oppose her. I adhere to the Church;s teaching on toleration. I had better, being the only Catholic in my family. What have I done that is so bad? Call you out for being a hypocrite by spewing hatred about one of the few that will let you do so without fear of persecution? Do the same in any islamic state, and you would risk execution. I have never endorsed senseless war, but rather said that wars of defense (such as WWII) and against tyranny (Iraq) pass the muster as just wars.

 

[meedo]

Blah. Israel. Come on, folks…let’s stop pretending that we’ve only started having problems with in our relations with Muslim countries and armies since c.1948. Have any of you ever heard of the Barbary wars?

QUOTE]

This is one of the most damaging post to truth and sanity.

Blah??? the whole palestinian issue for you is Blah?!!!

This whole thing about the Barbary wars is Piracy!! They were pirates , just like you had british european pirates. If an Amkerican ship passed they would try to take it , and if any ship passed they wouyld treat it the same .

Just because their leader had a warped idea of Islam doesnt make it Islam .

 

[Booklover]

I wish to know why muslims are willing to blow them selves up and
innocent people?

What provoked these actions?
What exactly did christians do to provoke all the violence?

What exactly did jews do?

What is realy going on in these countries?

What prompts their violence? Simple, the hatred and intolerance preached in the Quran, which has been called a training for terrorists by ex-Muslim Wafa Sultan, who has received many death threats from the so-called religion of “peace”.

Iranian ex-Muslim Amil Imani:

“The life manual of Islam, the Quran, is a document of exclusion, hatred and violence that shapes the Muslims’ thinking and behaving. This stone-age document is optimally suited for people of stunted development. People who prefer to follow than to think for themselves, to hate than to love, and to seek death rather than to celebrate life.”

Vickie

 

[kalt]

So you do acknowledge that they are fighting over the land, and it’s not Islam vs. Judaism? About time one of you got honest.

Now if you could only come out with the truth that you really want that part of the world to be completely godless… I would be happy then.

I think you’re the one who was supporting so-called Holy War.

You’re making no sense now.

 

[dzheremi]

This is one of the most damaging post to truth and sanity.

Blah??? the whole palestinian issue for you is Blah?!!!

No. If you’ve ever followed my posts, you know that I support Palestinian statehood. What is “blah” to me is this suggestion that if Israel did not exist there would be no Islam-inspired terrorism. That is a lie, or at best, wishful thinking.

This whole thing about the Barbary wars is Piracy!! They were pirates , just like you had british european pirates. If an Amkerican ship passed they would try to take it , and if any ship passed they wouyld treat it the same .

Just because their leader had a warped idea of Islam doesnt make it Islam .

I’m not saying that the Barbary pirates were Islamic representatives. I’m merely reporting what the ambassador himself told the President when he asked why ships that had committed no aggression against the people of the region were being besieged. It is the AMBASSADOR who made it about Islam, because to him Islam not only allows such acts, but encourages them. Same sort of rationale you hear today from Islamic terrorists. “Fighting is prescribed to you, though you dislike it”, and “Fight the unbelievers until there is no more strife and all religion is for Allah”, remember? That’s a recipe for Muslim relations with the rest of the world. We saw it during the Barbary wars, and we see it now over and over again. You can claim that it is not “true” Islam or whatever, but it is not me that you need to convince. How I would like to believe it! I know plenty of Muslims, all very peaceful and friendly people that I am honored to know. I would prefer that they be “true” Islam, and in some sense they are, but that does not negate any of the terror that Islam has brought upon my co-religionists and others for 1400 years and counting.

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=meedo;5275598
… ~ snip ~ …

Blah??? the whole **palestinian **issue for you is Blah?!!!

… ~ snip ~ …

Islamic states
Afghanistan, Bahrain, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Oman, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia

Islam as state religion
Algeria, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Morocco, Qatar, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates

Secular states
Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti, Somalia, Indonesia,
Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Albania, Azerbaijan,
Bosnia, Herzegovina, Kosovo, Turkey.

The worldwide Jewish population is 13.3 million Jews and they are pretty much scattered.
So now tell me, how many Jewish Nations are there for the Jews compared to islam and muslims?

13+ million Jews and as many as 1.5 **BILLION **muslims and all islam does is complain about a tiny piece of land called Israel.

It’s a pathetic little world we live it.

 

[tomarin]

Islam does teach Muslims to kill for their faith. Here are just a couple of verses from the Quran:

Well, you’re right about the death penalty for apostasy, and that is an example of killing someone “for the faith” so I suppose it is true in that particular circumstance.

However the rest of your post gives the impression that Muslims have a religious duty to kill any and all non-Muslims (those who are not apostates, for example, which is the vast majority of non-Muslims after all), which is really what I was taking issue with. Your quotes are selectively chosen to give this impression, whereas in fact the Qur’an also has some nice things to say about fellow monotheists. It’s a mixed bag and a fair assessment of the religion should take that into account.

If what you’re saying is that Islam is wrong to kill apostates, then I agree with you 100 percent. “There is no compulsion in religion”, after all.

 

[mark_a]

I wish to know why muslims are willing to blow them selves up and
innocent people?

What provoked these actions?
What exactly did christians do to provoke all the violence?

What exactly did jews do?

What is realy going on in these countries?

I don’t know about most of these things, but the sheer brutality of the world’s most notorious Muslims is mind boggling. Why is there no outcry from the leaders of Islam???

As some one here said, fundamentalist Islam has brought to the world the worst of the 7th centry for 1300 years.

 

[jakasaki]

I don’t know about most of these things, but the sheer brutality of the world’s most notorious Muslims is mind boggling. Why is there no outcry from the leaders of Islam???

As some one here said, fundamentalist Islam has brought to the world the worst of the 7th centry for 1300 years.

Leaders of islam approve of such - it’s their duty!

 

[Catholic1990]

Well, you’re right about the death penalty for apostasy, and that is an example of killing someone “for the faith” so I suppose it is true in that particular circumstance.

However the rest of your post gives the impression that Muslims have a religious duty to kill any and all non-Muslims (those who are not apostates, for example, which is the vast majority of non-Muslims after all), which is really what I was taking issue with. Your quotes are selectively chosen to give this impression, whereas in fact the Qur’an also has some nice things to say about fellow monotheists. It’s a mixed bag and a fair assessment of the religion should take that into account.

If what you’re saying is that Islam is wrong to kill apostates, then I agree with you 100 percent. “There is no compulsion in religion”, after all.

I have to agree with you. I read the Qu’ran and really, it did not seem that different from the Old Testament to me. A few name changes, but other than that, they seemed alot alike.

 

[jakasaki]

I have to agree with you. I read the Qu’ran and really, it did not seem that different from the Old Testament to me. A few name changes, but other than that, they seemed alot alike.

I know you are new here and we’ve covered these topics to death. None of us ever denied the OT is violent. We agree and do not hide it.

However, we don’t stone people to death which is a Hebrew OT punishment and we don’t chop off hands for stealing and we don’t chop off heads for whatever.

The old laws of the OT were put in place for the Hebrews of that time. Christ gave us a new way in the NT.

islam still stones people to death and chops off hands and heads, even as we speak in the 21st century.

Big difference.

 

[tomarin]

I have to agree with you. I read the Qu’ran and really, it did not seem that different from the Old Testament to me. A few name changes, but other than that, they seemed alot alike.

I don’t know if I’d go that far. The Qur’an is largely a sermon without the OT’s narrative history or genealogies. Also, even though the same figures are mentioned, there are often seemingly slight shifts in emphasis is the familiar stories that reflect the concerns of the early Muslim community.

 

[Hadi]

Leaders of islam approve of such - it’s their duty!

false statement…

reminds me of one member here who , when asked if he had attended an Islamic lecture, he said he had attended one organized by Hizbu Tahrir …no wonder why he has negative views about Islam…

 

[Hadi]

But Hill, who would become the first killer of an abortion doctor to be executed in the nation, has achieved near-cult status among extreme opponents to abortion. One publication, The Abortion Abolitionist, compares him to patriots such as anti-slavery killer John Brown, and suggests that there will be divine retribution for Hill’s death.
This month, Hill agreed to answer questions in writing from The Herald. **Asked if he considered himself a martyr, Hill said he hoped to be remembered "as someone who willingly died to save unborn children.’’ **
‘‘I do not regret using the means necessary for defending the unborn,’’ he wrote. "My conscience affirms me for having taken this defensive action.’’
Asked about the commonly held belief that the Bible never justifies killing, Hill disagreed
.
‘‘In Genesis 14, God blessed Abraham after he used lethal force to rescue his nephew, Lot,’’ he wrote. "The principle of justifiable homicide has been, and will remain, in effect throughout human history.’’
He added that "there is no question that my actions caused many abortion providers to consider quitting their practice.’’
**http://www.rickross.com/reference/a-abortion/a-abortion22.html
**

also ,this verse justifies the killing of an abortionist
“Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed” Genesis 9:5

but the reality is ,this act was done out of frustration (the government wont stop this abortionist from killing innocent people, therefore I should stop it myself) and not out of religious belief , although religion here gives him a comforting motivation to do so

so the Muslim who commits violence , is doing so out of his frustration and anger (look what the Christian have done to us ,or , this government is not acting according to Islam) and religion would give him a comforting motivation to do so.

 

[CWBetts]

But Hill, who would become the first killer of an abortion doctor to be executed in the nation, has achieved near-cult status among extreme opponents to abortion. One publication, The Abortion Abolitionist, compares him to patriots such as anti-slavery killer John Brown, and suggests that there will be divine retribution for Hill’s death.
This month, Hill agreed to answer questions in writing from The Herald. **Asked if he considered himself a martyr, Hill said he hoped to be remembered "as someone who willingly died to save unborn children.’’ **
‘‘I do not regret using the means necessary for defending the unborn,’’ he wrote. "My conscience affirms me for having taken this defensive action.’’
Asked about the commonly held belief that the Bible never justifies killing, Hill disagreed
.
‘‘In Genesis 14, God blessed Abraham after he used lethal force to rescue his nephew, Lot,’’ he wrote. "The principle of justifiable homicide has been, and will remain, in effect throughout human history.’’
He added that "there is no question that my actions caused many abortion providers to consider quitting their practice.’’
http://www.rickross.com/reference/a-abortion/a-abortion22.html

also ,this verse justifies the killing of an abortionist
“Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed” Genesis 9:5

but the reality is ,this act was done out of frustration (the government wont stop this abortionist from killing innocent people, therefore I should stop it myself) and not out of religious belief , although religion here gives him a comforting motivation to do so

so the Muslim who commits violence , is doing so out of his frustration and anger (look what the Christian have done to us ,or , this government is not acting according to Islam) and religion would give him a comforting motivation to do so.

Hill is sadly misguided. His actions robbed the doctor of his dignity. Hill may view himself as a martyr, but he is not. I am pro-life. Waht Hill did was in all ways wrong. Of course, I am also against the death penalty. There may be certain anti-aabortion extremists that support him, but the vast majority do not. In fact there is little evidence to suppot the idea that very many do. This is different thatn the violence perpetrated by Muslim extremists, which I admit are in the minority. Islam extremists are indiscriminate. 3,000 dead on 9/11. Many nationalites, races, and religions. There are terrorist training camps for these lunatics. I really haven’t heard of the same for any sect of Christianity. Your comparison is rediculously flawed.

 

[Booklover]

But Hill, who would become the first killer of an abortion doctor to be executed in the nation, has achieved near-cult status among extreme opponents to abortion. One publication, The Abortion Abolitionist, compares him to patriots such as anti-slavery killer John Brown, and suggests that there will be divine retribution for Hill’s death.
This month, Hill agreed to answer questions in writing from The Herald. **Asked if he considered himself a martyr, Hill said he hoped to be remembered "as someone who willingly died to save unborn children.’’ **
‘‘I do not regret using the means necessary for defending the unborn,’’ he wrote. "My conscience affirms me for having taken this defensive action.’’
Asked about the commonly held belief that the Bible never justifies killing, Hill disagreed
.
‘‘In Genesis 14, God blessed Abraham after he used lethal force to rescue his nephew, Lot,’’ he wrote. "The principle of justifiable homicide has been, and will remain, in effect throughout human history.’’
He added that "there is no question that my actions caused many abortion providers to consider quitting their practice.’’
http://www.rickross.com/reference/a-abortion/a-abortion22.html

also ,this verse justifies the killing of an abortionist
“Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed” Genesis 9:5

but the reality is ,this act was done out of frustration (the government wont stop this abortionist from killing innocent people, therefore I should stop it myself) and not out of religious belief , although religion here gives him a comforting motivation to do so

so the Muslim who commits violence , is doing so out of his frustration and anger (look what the Christian have done to us ,or , this government is not acting according to Islam) and religion would give him a comforting motivation to do so.

“Thou shalt not kill”. As usual, you resort to tu quoques to justify Muslim violence. Murder is murder no matter who does it and Tiller’s murder cannot be condoned. It is just as sinful as the killing of babies in an abortion clinic.

What a frightening thing it is to claim, as you have done that “religion can give one a comforting motivation to resort to violence”. Not surprising that you think that way, since the Quran is full of exhortations promoting it.

Vickie

 

[arthra]

They are a schism/heresy of the Muslim faith. Baha claimed to be the Messiah promised by Islam, they practice the Muslim principles when it comes to the pillars and pilgrimage to Mecca. Yes, it is a syncretist religion that incorporates aspects of many religions. It’s origin is as a heresy of Islam in Iran.

I included them in my list because the question was why are they violent towards one another-- and within Islam they are considered a heresy and they have been the target of violence, execution, etc.

I’d just like to correct something in your post… Yes Muslims who become Baha’is are viewed by many Muslims as “apostates” but Baha’is do not practise “Muslim principles when it comes to the pillars and pilgrimage to Mecca.”

Baha’is don’t go on pilgrimage to Mecca. We are Baha’is not Muslims… not part of Islam.

The Qiblah for Baha’is is near Haifa-Akka in Israel and that is where we go on pilgrimage. Baha’is have their own obligatory prayers and Holy Writings as well as our own calendar.

• Art

 

[lid2]

Some post shows a complete and dangerous lack of comprehension. Islam is a religion, not a terrorist group. The media classifies Muslims as “terrorists,” “highjackers” and “kidnappers.” So why would anyone even look at Islam? Why are so many priests and preachers going to Islam?

David Karesh was a Christian, shall we ban all Christian momentous?
When you compare all of Islam to these terrorists, you essentially say every Sunday clothed bible reading Christian is a Branch Dividian fundamentalist. The linking of such actions to Islam or the Qur’an is incorrect. Rather, such inhumane actions clearly contradict the teachings of Islam - just as the bombing at Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh and the killings that occurred at Abraham Mosque, Hebron - Philistine by Dr. Baruch Goldstein clearly contradict the teachings of Christianity and Judaism, respectively.

 

[sedonaman]

…
What exactly did christians do to provoke all the violence?

What exactly did jews do?

…

They existed.

 

[CWBetts]

Some post shows a complete and dangerous lack of comprehension. Islam is a religion, not a terrorist group. The media classifies Muslims as “terrorists,” “highjackers” and “kidnappers.” So why would anyone even look at Islam? Why are so many priests and preachers going to Islam?

David Karesh was a Christian, shall we ban all Christian momentous?
When you compare all of Islam to these terrorists, you essentially say every Sunday clothed bible reading Christian is a Branch Dividian fundamentalist. The linking of such actions to Islam or the Qur’an is incorrect. Rather, such inhumane actions clearly contradict the teachings of Islam - just as the bombing at Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh and the killings that occurred at Abraham Mosque, Hebron - Philistine by Dr. Baruch Goldstein clearly contradict the teachings of Christianity and Judaism, respectively.

We are suspicios of islam because:
Many of their “religious schools” are little more than terrorist training camps.
Name four “Christian” terrorist organizations. Al-quaida. Hamas, Palestinian Authority, Islamic Jihad, are four Islamic terrorist organizations.
When is the last ime a Christian bombed ans embassy? Hijacked a plane? Killed thousands on a whim?