What if a Catholic sincerely believes that the Catholic Church is wrong about Masturbation?

[BobCatholic]

Torture themselves??? The lake of hellfire and damnation isn’t that what you believe? What exactly is your version of hell? Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I’m just going off the hell I was taught in church and Sunday school.

There are two types of people who go to hell.

1. Those who are so ashamed of their unrepented sins, they see a Loving Merciful God who they cannot look at out of shame or be anywhere near them. They willingly go to hell for the pain there is less than the pain they feel for their shame.

and

1. Those who are PROUD of their unrepented sins. While on the escalator down, they give God the middle finger.

 

[phoenix3212]

Control the masses, control their sexual desires and forge that will to conquer in your name…

So the story goes

Okay so I’m god, and I’m going to make this act feel really good, everything else in nature will also do it, their will be physical and psychological benefits to do it and no consequences to doing it, as whatever is destroyed by this act will be regenerated constantly for the rest of your life…

Woa Woa Woa what do you think your doing? Did I say you could touch that? Just take your hand out of your pants and I might consider not sending you to hell to be tortured forever.

Yea because that story makes alot of sense.

This issue really has to be taken with more seriousness.

Since I’m male, I’ll discuss this from a male perspective. Masturbation emasculates a person. What makes a real man, from the perspective of marriage? Someone who is capable of giving himself in love totally to his spouse. When a man whose habits include masturbation and pornography enters a marriage, he won’t know how to treat his wife. All he’s ever trained himself to do is seek his own pleasure, and he then views the sexual act as not intrinsically love-giving but as pleasure-giving. Masturbation, in that context, robs him of the ability to love a woman properly and deprives him of the ability to be a real man. It makes him to pursue not true love, but ever increasing levels of self-oriented pleasure. It doesn’t fit anywhere into God’s plan.

That doesn’t mean masturbation is an easy thing to avoid, especially when you’re a teenager like me. But how can I so blatantly choose to disobey such a loving God?

 

[Holly3278]

If a Catholic knows full well the teaching of the Church on masturbation and yet goes ahead and masturbates, he/she is guilty of a grave sin and possibly a mortal sin. According to paragraph 2352 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, masturbation is defined as the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to provide sexual pleasure. So, it doesn’t really matter how the person tries to justify it by saying that “this is not masturbation” when in fact it really is, that person is still wrong and would still be committing a grave sin by deliberately stimulating his/her genitals in order to derive sexual pleasure. I don’t care if someone thinks that deliberately stimulating their genitals to the point of an erection but not to ejaculation/orgasm is a sin or not. That still fits the Church’s definition of masturbation because the person deliberately stimulated his/her genitals in order to gain sexual pleasure from it.

Even if a person’s conscience tells them that a certain thing is not a sin, it is still a sin whether they think it is or not if the Church says that it is a sin. It is especially true a person as described in the OP would be guilty of a grave sin because this person knows what the Church teaches and therefore has an informed conscience but chooses to disagree with the Church anyway. A person who disagrees with Church teaching even though they know Church teaching and understand it is known as a cafeteria Catholic.

 

[Abbadon]

God loves every human being- or else He would not have created them. God loves every human being and wants them to go to Heaven; however, Heaven is not simply a paradise where everyone gets whatever they want: Heaven is standing the presence of God, of the purest love, greater than anything imaginable. If a person cannot appreciate, cannot return that love, then Heaven would be hellish.

One possible analogy: being hugged by someone you do not like. The more that person shows affection, the more uncomfortable you become. Eventually, you move beyond being annoyed by them and start to genuinely dislike them, and the affection becomes even less desireable. Imagine that process, continued infinitely. That’s Hell as I understand it.

Oh well that hell I’d be totally fine with and I now understand what you meant… Sorry for jumping the the conclusion of what kind of hell you beleived in.

 

[Abbadon]

There are two types of people who go to hell.

1. Those who are so ashamed of their unrepented sins, they see a Loving Merciful God who they cannot look at out of shame or be anywhere near them. They willingly go to hell for the pain there is less than the pain they feel for their shame.

and

1. Those who are PROUD of their unrepented sins. While on the escalator down, they give God the middle finger.

How about those who have NO IDEA who that god is and would like to interview him to get the facts straight before making up their minds. Because if it’s Hades or Yahweh I’m sticking up my finger, but there is a plathora of gods whom I wouldn’t and perhaps god is none of those and I’d really have to get to know him/her/it…

 

[Abbadon]

This issue really has to be taken with more seriousness.

Since I’m male, I’ll discuss this from a male perspective. Masturbation emasculates a person. What makes a real man, from the perspective of marriage? Someone who is capable of giving himself in love totally to his spouse. When a man whose habits include masturbation and pornography enters a marriage, he won’t know how to treat his wife. All he’s ever trained himself to do is seek his own pleasure, and he then views the sexual act as not intrinsically love-giving but as pleasure-giving. Masturbation, in that context, robs him of the ability to love a woman properly and deprives him of the ability to be a real man. It makes him to pursue not true love, but ever increasing levels of self-oriented pleasure. It doesn’t fit anywhere into God’s plan.

That doesn’t mean masturbation is an easy thing to avoid, especially when you’re a teenager like me. But how can I so blatantly choose to disobey such a loving God?

Just because someone says their loving doesn’t mean their loving, have you read the bible? Judge the character of Yahweh by the actions he claims and the laws he assert as well as the claims he makes. Yahweh is not a loving character.

If you truly believe that if you masturbate that could happen to you and you don’t want to be that, sounds like you really care about the person you would like to spend your life with and sounds sweet. Personally if, like near all things, it is done in moderation I do not see a problem with it. Also I would look at it as if he was able to pleasure himself our relationship would be less about pleasure and more about being together.

Plus you may be unaware but girls also masturbate, not that we talk about it. What would be your response to if you found your wife masturbating?

Masturbation is also a great procrastinating tool and reliever of boredom, when your out of videos to watch and books to read.

 

[Newbie2]

No one ever deserves to be tortured forever, No one.

Hitler? Stalin? A mother who drowns her own children and think nothing of it?

How about those who have NO IDEA who that god is and would like to interview him to get the facts straight before making up their minds. Because if it’s Hades or Yahweh I’m sticking up my finger, but there is a plathora of gods whom I wouldn’t and perhaps god is none of those and I’d really have to get to know him/her/it…

There’s this book, called the Bible. We can read all about him.

Just because someone says their loving doesn’t mean their loving, have you read the bible? Judge the character of Yahweh by the actions he claims and the laws he assert as well as the claims he makes. Yahweh is not a loving character.

Have you ever read the bible? Most everyone who has a different view of Yahweh.

Masturbation is also a great procrastinating tool and reliever of boredom, when your out of videos to watch and books to read.

So is drinking to excess, pulling the wings off flies and lighting fires. Your point is…?

 

[BobCatholic]

How about those who have NO IDEA who that god is and would like to interview him to get the facts straight before making up their minds.

Well, God won’t punish them for whatever they are ignorant of. If someone knew little about God and based on that little knowledge did their best to do what they believed to be God’s will, I believe God would understand.

Because if it’s Hades or Yahweh I’m sticking up my finger,

I think you really got an incorrect and incomplete impression of who God is, and I do question if you really would stick up your finger if you meet him at the end. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised at first and then horrified at yourself at how badly you thought of him, and how badly people misrepresented him to you.

 

[phoenix3212]

Just because someone says their loving doesn’t mean their loving, have you read the bible? Judge the character of Yahweh by the actions he claims and the laws he assert as well as the claims he makes. Yahweh is not a loving character.

If you truly believe that if you masturbate that could happen to you and you don’t want to be that, sounds like you really care about the person you would like to spend your life with and sounds sweet. Personally if, like near all things, it is done in moderation I do not see a problem with it. Also I would look at it as if he was able to pleasure himself our relationship would be less about pleasure and more about being together.

Plus you may be unaware but girls also masturbate, not that we talk about it. What would be your response to if you found your wife masturbating?

Masturbation is also a great procrastinating tool and reliever of boredom, when your out of videos to watch and books to read.

God is love. In the Old Testament He indeed implemented laws and instructed people to do things that were discontinued after the New Covenant was instituted. But overall, His story is one of love. Israel turned their backs on Him time and time again, and He welcomed them back with loving arms whenever they fell. The Bible tells us of a God who shepherded his people and guided them through the ages, eventually saving them through his own death and resurrection. How wonderful he is!

Believe me, masturbation is simply a catalyst for lust to gain hold over a person. Lust is chiefly the inordinate desire for pleasure in opposition to love, especially when concerning sex. Does not Paul instruct:

“Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.”

Generally speaking, when someone masturbates, they aren’t thinking pure thoughts. They become slaves to their desires and lose self-control. What Catholicism proposes is that people should master their desires so as to become stronger and more selfless, not only for their own benefit but for those they love. And of course I know that masturbation isn’t limited to men, but I also know that regardless of a person’s gender, it robs them of the ability to love another completely. It goes contrary to love and therefore to God.

 

[Mr_Fausto]

If a Catholic sincerely believes that, they are sincerely wrong. END OF STORY.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You are not Catholic if you know the Catholic teachings and reject them.

So be Catholic and in so doing you will follow God’s statues and receive God’s graces.

Masturbation is a mortal sin and nothing you believe or want to believe is ever going to change that. Ignorance lessens culpability but since all here know masturbation is a mortal sin then no one here is free from this unless they have an addiction. If it is an addiction then one must constantly try to stop and do all they can to stop and always use confession immediately after a fall from grace.

 

[chain]

I find that the church teaching is a pretty good user guide to life - this is not the church teaching, just mho. Masturbation has numerous psychological consequences latter down the road. You don’t have to wait for the lake of fire, you will figure it out when your marriage is a living hell because you treated your wife as an object.

 

[jmjconder]

If one were to buy a liter of vodka ~ but sincerely believed it was only water ~ and drank the bottle…sincerely believing it was only water…because my goodness ~ it obviously looks just like water…so I must be right and all the labeling and advertising must be wrong…the person would still get very drunk and perhaps even die from alcohol poisoning. Sincerely believing it was only water did not change the outcome…it was still a deadly drink or one became extremely ill.

Sincerely believing the Church is wrong does make the Church wrong. God does not goof ~ He does however offer us strength and grace to understand. One needs only to be open to the answer.

May God bestow to all who struggle with this the courage to seek the truth.

 

[graceandglory]

It sounds like you know it’s a sin, but you don’t know WHY it’s a sin.
You have taken the time to write a lengthy question, have you taken the time to try to understand why it is considered sinful behavior?
For one, it’s selfish, that’s a plain and simple fact. That is not the purpose God created you for.

A good explanation of the Whys behind Catholic teaching on sexual morality is found in Christopher West’s Good News About Sex and Marriage. I would suggest you read it. Once you learn WHY it’s a sin, the light just might go on. :newidea:

aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/title/Good-News-About-Sex-And-Marriage/FuseAction/store.ItemDetails/SKU/1812/

 

[JAW642]

Please, you must not say God is mean. He is not mean. He has given us all life and sent Jesus as our Savior. He has allowed for us to eat and drink and rest. He has let us have beautiful churches and has heard our prayers. We should all be grateful of that.

God is seeing if you can abstain from temptation. It may be hard, and it takes self control. Think of when you were young, and perhaps, say, you wanted some candy. But then your parents wouldn’t let you have it. Sure, it probably wouldn’t do you any serious harm if you had a piece of hard candy. Just because your parents don’t give it, doesn’t mean they are mean.

Follow His word and please don’t risk hell just for a self-pleasure. Even if you say it is not a deadly sin, it is still a sin nevertheless. We must try our best not to commit sins, and if we do, we must pray for forgiveness. He will judge whether we are really sorry or not. If you purposefully committed a sin, and pray for forgiveness, do you think you will be sincerely apologizing to God? What if you do it again?..God knows your thoughts, and it is best not to break His rules. When we ask for forgiveness, we believe that God is being merciful. He is giving us a second chance.

If you believe the Church is wrong, then I think the best way to settle your thoughts is to pray and ask the priest for guidance. We can all hope that eventually God will show us the right path.

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Thank you, Danika, very much for your reply to my post.

I am a new member to this form. Unlike the vast majority of post I have read so far, your post to me sounds like it is filled with Love. And I thank you for that.

I really do NOT believe that God is ‘MEAN’.

What I actually wrote in my first post that started this thread was:
“Does the Catholic Church really want and expect its members to believe that God is really so merciless, vengeful and mean?”

Like I said, I do NOT believe that God is ‘MEAN’, meaning that God is wanting to hurt any of His children, just for the sake or pleasure of hurting them.

But I also do NOT believe that God is as ‘Hard’ as you and the Catholic Church believe He is. I believe he is much more Loving.

That is why I am having such a terrible time deciding that the God that I believe is up in Heaven, is the same God that the Catholic Church, ( and most of the posters to this forum ), wants me to believe is up in Heaven.

My problem of doubt is either with the Catholic Church, OR with Who God really is, and I pray to God that my problem is with the Catholic Church.

I came to this forum looking for accurate answers. But to be honest, reading all of the posters on this forum, ( except for yours, Danika ), and the manner and tone in which the posts are written, has actually made things worse for me. I now have less of an interest or belief in the Catholic Church and Catholicism.

See also the thread, “Where’s the Love?” started by Raider Red on May 30, 2009.

From JAW642 on June 14, 2009

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[JAW642]

Personally, I accept that it is a serious sin because I believe the church has the authority to do so. However, I don’t buy the logic they use that justifies it. I view it as an issue of obedience. If the church came out and said that holding ones’ breath for long periods of time was a grave sin because it is using the lungs against their purpose, well, I believe they have that authority too.

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Question primarily to Bataar, but I would like to hear others answering also:

Do you accept that masturbation is a mortal sin, solely because the Catholic Church has the authority to make it a mortal sin?

Since you don’t buy the logic they use that justifies it, does this mean that you personally and truly do not believe that it is ( or should be considered ) a Grave offense against God?

Is obedience to the Catholic Church your only reason why you do NOT masturbate, ( or try not to masturbate )? Be Honest !

Do you try not to masturbate, totally out of Love for God?
OR out of Fear of disobedience to the Catholic Church, and FEAR of going to Hell because you disobeyed the teaching of the Catholic Church?

Very Hypothetically : What if it turned out that after many, many prolonged medical studies, it was shown that masturbation indisputably does significantly reduce the risk of prostate cancer, and that NOT masturbating really does significantly increase the risk of prostate cancer?

Then the Catholic Church decides to accept these indisputable medical findings as valid and legitimate, and decrees, under pain of mortal sin, that all males MUST masturbate one time per week to maintain proper physical health, as commanded by God.

Would you feel that the Catholic Church has the authority to make that decree on this issue?

Would you feel obligated to accept and to comply with the Church’s decree?

From JAW642 on June 14, 2009

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[phoenix3212]

Do you accept that masturbation is a mortal sin, solely because the Catholic Church has the authority to make it a mortal sin?

The Church, I don’t think, “made” masturbation a mortal sin. God already did, because it feeds lust. It just defined it as such.

 

[edwest2]

A lot of us Catholics suffer from this problem. I say suffer because it often leads to addiction. Nothing worthwhile is easy, but solving this addiction problem by bringing it to Christ is the answer. And yes, you will likely stumble along the way, but I often see more encouragement given to smokers who are trying to quit the habit. I encourage everyone reading this to turn to Christ.

God gave all of us a legitimate outlet for our sexuality in marriage. However, for those of us who are single, we are called to be holy. Allow God to heal you in this area. Pray for His help.

I’ve watched as too many Catholics became distracted by the world as it increasingly portrays the separation of love from sex. It pains me to watch two attractive people on TV who have just had “just sex,” as if they just went to the rest room. That’s why I watch maybe 30 minutes a week, if that. But this change of attitude didn’t happen overnight. I watched the Body of Christ slowly poisoned over the last 40 years.

I encourage all of you.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Bataar]

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Question primarily to Bataar, but I would like to hear others answering also:

Do you accept that masturbation is a mortal sin, solely because the Catholic Church has the authority to make it a mortal sin?

Pretty much.

Since you don’t buy the logic they use that justifies it, does this mean that you personally and truly do not believe that it is ( or should be considered ) a Grave offense against God?

It should be only in the sense that the Church says that it is. If the church did not say it’s a mortal sin, I would not say it’s a grave offense against God.

Is obedience to the Catholic Church your only reason why you do NOT masturbate, ( or try not to masturbate )? Be Honest !

Again, pretty much. And by obeying the church, we obey God.

Do you try not to masturbate, totally out of Love for God?
OR out of Fear of disobedience to the Catholic Church, and FEAR of going to Hell because you disobeyed the teaching of the Catholic Church?

Pretty much out of fear. That’s pretty much why I do (or don’t do) anything.

Very Hypothetically : What if it turned out that after many, many prolonged medical studies, it was shown that masturbation indisputably does significantly reduce the risk of prostate cancer, and that NOT masturbating really does significantly increase the risk of prostate cancer?

Then the Catholic Church decides to accept these indisputable medical findings as valid and legitimate, and decrees, under pain of mortal sin, that all males MUST masturbate one time per week to maintain proper physical health, as commanded by God.

Would you feel that the Catholic Church has the authority to make that decree on this issue?

Would you feel obligated to accept and to comply with the Church’s decree?

I don’t know if the church would have the authority at this point. If my understanding is correct, the church doesn’t have the power to change doctrines. I could be wrong though.

 

[MetalMark]

I have not read this entire thread, but I have these thoughts.

Whether or not you sincerely believe in something has no effect on the reality of the matter. If a Catholic sincerely believes this, they are wrong, plain and simple, and they are still committing mortal sin. They know they are doing wrong, refuse to believe that, outright deny it, and ultimately twist their mind into sincerely believing they are correct.