What if a Catholic sincerely believes that the Catholic Church is wrong about Masturbation?

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Just a question, as I’ve been struggling with this too…

What sin does masturbation fall under? Adultery? What is adultery? Because when reading the bible, even people like Abraham, Jacob and David had concubines… isn’t that adultery? But God approved of that. The sons of Abraham that were conceived not of his wife were chosen to be leaders by God. I’m not understanding what exactly adultery is. I am thinking that in the day that Moses brought down the commandments, adultery was a completely different thing than we think of it today. I am thinking it means not to take another man’s wife (stealing that which doesn’t belong to you). Back then if a man slept with a virgin but didn’t want to take her for a wife, didn’t he just have to pay the father off? It wasn’t a “sin” back then… when did pre-marital or extra-marital sex become a sin?

Could someone please shed some light on this for me? I’m not trying to discredit the church at all!! I’m just trying to understand.
 
NoWhereMan said:
You Know, I am not sure, cause God is a Mystery, but I may be closer to God than a lot of folks, I pray often & ask for lots & lots of mercy for us all
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What did Jesus day about a house that is divided against itself? About those who try to serve two masters? Hmmm, how about those who are neither hot nor cold?

Mercy? Yes, that’s an excellent thing to pray for. But it’s a far inferior good to firstly praying for the grace to do what’s right - and then DOING what’s right, as you will if you believe in a God who has actually answered those prayers. And He has promised to answer them, make no mistake about that - and make no excuses to yourself either, because they fool no-one.
 
MikiBee said:
Just a question, as I’ve been struggling with this too…

What sin does masturbation fall under? Adultery? What is adultery? Because when reading the bible, even people like Abraham, Jacob and David had concubines… isn’t that adultery? But God approved of that. The sons of Abraham that were conceived not of his wife were chosen to be leaders by God. I’m not understanding what exactly adultery is. I am thinking that in the day that Moses brought down the commandments, adultery was a completely different thing than we think of it today. I am thinking it means not to take another man’s wife (stealing that which doesn’t belong to you). Back then if a man slept with a virgin but didn’t want to take her for a wife, didn’t he just have to pay the father off? It wasn’t a “sin” back then… when did pre-marital or extra-marital sex become a sin?

Could someone please shed some light on this for me? I’m not trying to discredit the church at all!! I’m just trying to understand.
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Who says God approved of concubines? He tolerated them, as He tolerates all manner of evil among mankind. Which sons of Abraham? The leaders were descended from his issue by his lawful wife Sarah, who was Isaac. No-one else. Yes, nations were descended from Ishmael too, but so were they descended from Cain the murderer.

Stealing that which doesn’t belong to you - that’s the perfect definition of adultery. And your body (or at least your sexual faculties) does NOT belong to you - not ever. They belong firstly to God, secondly to your spouse, if God wills you to be married. So when you misuse them by masturbation you are indeed stealing that which does not belong to you.
 
Masturbation is self destructive behavior. By focusing on the fantasy, life in reality becomes colorless. By learning to indulge in every carnal desire rather than to control them, relationships become impossible. Others become simply tools, objects to be used as a means to an end (and usually discarded afterward).

I find believe that almost all divorce and adultery is rooted in this mindset. Thinking you can live with this mentality now, and have no consequence latter is insane (and that is just on the temporal level). Habits learned are very hard to change.

I have seen the damage that it has done, to myself, my wife and to friends. It is hard to see this when you are young, but much easier to look back at it 20 years latter.
 
Wow… where does it say my body belongs to my husband before myself? I’m just asking for biblical references so that I can study up more. I am a returning Catholic and obviously am in need of some Catholic education.

I am in a bible study right now, but the more I read, the more questions I have…
 
chain said:
Masturbation is self destructive behavior. By focusing on the fantasy, life in reality becomes colorless. By learning to indulge in every carnal desire rather than to control them, relationships become impossible. Others become simply tools, objects to be used as a means to an end (and usually discarded afterward).

I find believe that almost all divorce and adultery is rooted in this mindset. Thinking you can live with this mentality now, and have no consequence latter is insane (and that is just on the temporal level). Habits learned are very hard to change.

I have seen the damage that it has done, to myself, my wife and to friends. It is hard to see this when you are young, but much easier to look back at it 20 years latter.
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I have a healthy relationship and find reality far more interesting now then i did when my libido was at my throat. Fail argument is fail
 
tjm190 said:
As much as I hate to ask a question about a question about something I wrote, what did you not get?
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I have a healthy relationship and find reality far more interesting now then i did when my libido was at my throat. Fail argument is fail

I’m not familiar with the phrase “libido in my throat”…and the “fail argument is fail” is completely beyond me. I didn’t notice where you’re from, but I wonder if this might be one of those regional phrases…or if I’m just not with it. Could go either way! 😛
 
This is a very long thread, wow. lol 😛

*To the OP – just curious, but why would you think the Catholic Church ‘made this up?’ I think the question for you is…do you believe the Church’s doctrine is man made, or is it Divinely inspired? If you feel it is manmade, then that could be where the main hang up, for lack of a better word, is for you.

And if you feel that this ‘rule’ is manmade, then why would the Catholic Church only make up one manmade rule? haha You see what I’m saying? If you think it through enough, it doesn’t make LOGICAL sense. So, we believe that EVERYTHING ELSE is Divinely inspired, just not masturbation. lol It’s like a house of cards, really. If you remove this card, others fall. This ‘card’ leads to others…leads to lust, leads to turning on your spouse…leads to self centeredness…it LEADS to other sins, which is why it is sinful, in and of itself.

Just my thoughts. I used to not always ‘agree’ with the Catholic Church, too. But, through prayer, and time…I saw the beauty of ALL of the Catholic Church’s teachings, because the beauty is of God. ❤️*
 
LilyM said:
The Church teaches that deliberately terminating a pregnancy except in a very few extremely restricted circumstances is wrong. Doesn’t matter whether you call it abortion or not - you deliberately terminate a pregnancy with knowledge that the Church views the act as gravely sinful, and while freely consenting, you’ve mortally sinned.
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Actually, my understanding was that the Church teaches it is ALWAYS wrong to deliberately terminate a pregnancy. However, I think that in some extreme circumstances, the indirect termination of a pregnancy may be permissible, if the intent of the procedure is not directly to terminate the pregnancy, but to save the life of the mother, and if there is absolutely no way the baby may be saved in such a procedure. However, I think a procedure whose intent is to terminate a pregnancy is always gravely sinful.
 
renepape said:
Actually, my understanding was that the Church teaches it is ALWAYS wrong to deliberately terminate a pregnancy. However, I think that in some extreme circumstances, the indirect termination of a pregnancy may be permissible, if the intent of the procedure is not directly to terminate the pregnancy, but to save the life of the mother, and if there is absolutely no way the baby may be saved in such a procedure. However, I think a procedure whose intent is to terminate a pregnancy is always gravely sinful.
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I think this was the point the previous poster was trying to make, but you phrased it more clearly. It’s all about the intent.
 
You can’t force yourself to believe something that does not seem logical to your mind. It’s the basic flaw in Pascal’s Wager.
 
kristie_m said:
I have a healthy relationship and find reality far more interesting now then i did when my libido was at my throat. Fail argument is fail

I’m not familiar with the phrase “libido in my throat”…and the “fail argument is fail” is completely beyond me. I didn’t notice where you’re from, but I wonder if this might be one of those regional phrases…or if I’m just not with it. Could go either way! 😛
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Well the libido is the sex drive and “at my throat” is an expression generally refers to when one thing wishes harm upon another (my libido obviously does not seek to harm me, although that is what it was doing at the time)

“fail _________ is fail” is just an internet thing- it’s redundant, stupid, and contributes nothing to any discussion- just a way to express the opinion that the presented argument lacks value.
 
tjm190 said:
Well the libido is the sex drive and “at my throat” is an expression generally refers to when one thing wishes harm upon another (my libido obviously does not seek to harm me, although that is what it was doing at the time)

“fail _________ is fail” is just an internet thing- it’s redundant, stupid, and contributes nothing to any discussion- just a way to express the opinion that the presented argument lacks value.
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lol…I know what the libido is…just have never heard the expression “at my throat” before. Good explanation though! I swear sometimes when I’m on the internet I start to feel so OLD. Though, my hubby, who is older than I seems to know what many of these phrases mean. 🤷
 
MikiBee said:
Wow… where does it say my body belongs to my husband before myself? I’m just asking for biblical references so that I can study up more. I am a returning Catholic and obviously am in need of some Catholic education.

I am in a bible study right now, but the more I read, the more questions I have…
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Sounds normal for people in your situation 🙂

Ask and you shall receive …
“The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.” 1 Corinthians 7:4
 
tjm190 said:
I have a healthy relationship and find reality far more interesting now then i did when my libido was at my throat. Fail argument is fail
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Perhaps it is working for you, but more often than not that technique (which seems to be a solution to frustration) only ends up causing more in the end. At best it will cause your spouse to feel degraded (when you masterbate), pressured or used (when she is an object of lust (when you don’t masterbate). I have seen it cause additions and cost marriages.
 
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