What if I made a mistake becoming Catholic?

[ElizabethPH]

This may seem a strange question, but we recently became Catholics which I was very keen to do, but we cannot go to Mass as a family (our toddler plays up and I get angry with my son when people look). In our old protestant churches where contraception is allowed, there are crying rooms and creches, yet in our Parish there is no such thing, so we need to separate. I am sure that is not what God would want, yet I cannot ignore the stares.

Our parish doesn’t have a cry room either, but we have a sort of day care room where there is someone to watch the kid’s during Mass. Maybe if you don’t have one of these you can look into seeing about starting one. Most of the church’s I’ve been too has some sort of accomadation for the children.

I think having doubts can be normal. Maybe confession will be of some help.

 

[dal11]

This is in response to praying to Mary too many times compared to Jesus. It’s not a contest. If you don’t pray to Jesus as many times he’ll get mad. Here’s an example: Let’s say you have a sick child and you need to have people pray for her. You greet the two hundred people that come to church at the door and ask each one of them would you pray for my child to get better. Now think of it on these terms. You just prayed to two hundred people. Do you now have to pray to Jesus by himself alone two hundred and one times to make him think you love him more? Of course not. You asking them to pray for you is all a reflection on him.

 

[RedSoxFan]

This may seem a strange question, but we recently became Catholics which I was very keen to do, but we cannot go to Mass as a family (our toddler plays up and I get angry with my son when people look). In our old protestant churches where contraception is allowed, there are crying rooms and creches, yet in our Parish there is no such thing, so we need to separate. I am sure that is not what God would want, yet I cannot ignore the stares.

I am also having real problems with Our Lady. I actually thought I had advanced a long way. I thought prayers like the Memorare that seemed to place Mary on par with God were rare, but there are lots of them and I am discovering so much Marian devotion that it’s like Jesus is forgotten. I used to defend Catholics when Prots said that catholics worshipped Mary, but now I am in the Church, I have to admit it is actually quite true! More prayers are said to Mary than the Holy Spirit, who is one of the Trinity, or even Jesus it seems…think Hail Marys, for instance. We can pray directly to God in Jesus name (as he said), so although I accept praying for intercession, Our Lady should not be a necessary step unless we want her to be. Terms like Mediatrix of all grace are misleading. What about co-redemptrix?

What’s more “prayer aids” such as statues with kneelers are a violation against the graven images commandment.

I also have a problem with the Magesterium ignoring the “divorce clause” in Matthew for adultery. Not because I am in that situation, but becuase the Church is overruling a specific clear statement of Jesus himself. I trusted the Church would always interpret Scripture but be in harmony with it, not contradict it.

If I follow my conscience, do I become an apostate and therefore damned?

There is a lot on your plate right now. Seems like things that have been bothering you have piled up quite high.

Your children are a gift from God. As such they tend to do things that are just innappropiate for church. Yet, it doesn’t sound as if your son is not acting age appropiate. For a toddler he is doing toddler things. Most people recognize this. Some crotchity people might stare but that is probably a reflection on them, not your son. Now if he’s crying terribly don’t be afraid to take him outside for a few minutes till he calms down. I still think your doing the right thing by having your son at mass.

As for Mary, this is difficult for even some Catholics to see and fully understand. You already know about intercessional prayer so your still ahead of the game. As for the rosary remember that most of your mediation while doing the repetitive prayer is upon God. The rosary is to bring you closer to God, not to Mary. If you don’t think it is doing that, make a conscious effort. Talk to a priest if you feel conflicted. I applaud you for writing in here instead of just packing in your faith and leaving. Also in all of the prayers of Catholicism there are many that do not ask the assistance of Mary. Try those. I don’t think that anyone is forcing you to pray for the prayers of Mary. It seems more like you are seeing others asking for her help and feel pressured to do the same. You should not feel that way. Whenever you are praying because the people around praying that way it can be a wonderful thing. Or it could be that you are losing your focus. It sounds like the later is happening.

As for graven images it sounds like you made up your mind and are venting right now. They are a focus point to help you meditate on that particular vision to bring you closer to God. IE the crucifixtion of Christ, the sacred heart etc. They are not graven images.

You seem to be almost at a breaking point. Take a step back, take a few breathes and think this one out. Pray to God; reflect on things. If you have any questions write in to an apologist or better yet talk to a priest. Good Luck!

 

[SherryLynn9]

Being brief, I am the hubby. I was taken in by priests when my life went off the rails at about 20 (drinking and drugs). I boarded in the Presbytery, attended AA, Mass and AOG services. Went back to Uni, now have job, house, wife, family, etc. Going well.

We went to the AOG church when we got married because my wife’s father is an AOG pastor, and my inlaws figured too large in the picture. Anyway, it got to be too “prosperity gospel” and about money so we left.

So after years of me pleading we did the RCIA (which I wasn’t happy about, I’d already been Catechised at the Presbytery), and joined the RCC. It was the only other church I knew the still preached the gospel we believe in. I had always believed in the Primacy of Peter, AS, transubstantiation and had a soft-spot for Catholicism in general.

I think reading puzzle’s quote that maybe the Parish we joined is particularly Marian. The one I boarded in was not (it was Charismatic, and the priest was very special-he still calls us up), so it has a different flavour to what I expected I guess. Our new parish, since we live in a different state, is also quite anti-protestant which we weren’t used to either.

Puzzle, I really must raise with you that the Memorare is only in part asking for intercession. It is actually addressed to Mary, and asks things of Mary besides intercession:

*Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided. *
*Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. *

Amen.

We should be flying to Jesus, or the Comforter. I have no problem with intercession, and I pray Hail Marys, but this prayer clearly asks for more than intercession. It asks for Mary to answer, in the same way you’d petition Jesus. In the RCIA this was the most extreme Marian prayer and I thought it would be a one-off, but it is not.

Dear David,

I came from a Baptist and Assembly of God background too. l didn’t understand about our mother in the beginning either. The Holy Spirit helped me to understand. When I was young, who was the first person I ran to when was scared or hurt? When someone threatens your children, would your wife not protect them? Would our Lady do no less? Just ponder it and pray about it. You do not have to have a relationship with Mary if you don’t wish to. When you become overwhelmed by others’ Marian devotion, ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand. It’s because we don’t understand the teaching, we need ears to hear. Jesus, our Lord, gave us His mother as a help, not as a hindrance. If you can’t participate in the Rosary in faith, do not pray the Rosary. You could pary the chaplet of Divine Mercy. It is never wrong to seek God’s mercy for yourself as well as others. I do understand where you’re coming from. Please PM me if you think it might help.

Your sister in Christ,

 

[MariaG]

David;

If you think that the Memorare places Mary higher than Jesus, then maybe you have not placed Jesus high enough, yet.

Jesus is not only our friend and guide. (Mary can also be that.) Jesus is our Creator, our Saviour who died for our sins, and our God. (Mary is not that.)

Mary does not have her hands and feet bound up. She, too, can act on our behalf. She cannot create us (only God can do that) and she cannot save us from our sins (again, only God can do that) but she can certainly help us in our troubles, just as any living human being can, and it is not wrong to ask for her help when we need it.

Sometimes, we need human help. For example, if I get a flat tire, I can pray to God to miraculously fix my tire, but I do much better if I not only pray to God in my trouble, but also make a call to my local auto service, and contact a human being who is competent at fixing flat tires.

When I think of praying to Mary, I think of it as being the same sort of thing as making a telephone call to an expert who can give me some practical, human help. But she is not God. She is only a helper.

If your only relationship with God is as a helper (and thus, any other helper seems to you to be usurping His place) then you do not have a correct understanding of God - you need to raise Him up higher. Mary does not need to come lower. God needs to get higher.

jmcrae, please read my posts properly before criticising me. The memorare does not put Mary above God. I never thought, nor said that. I said that it seemed to place Mary *on par *with God. It also centres on the “OR sought your intercession.” If it said “and” or “by” - no problem. The Queen Mother of tha Davidic time is a great shadow of Mary. I have no problem (I seem to have to keep saying that) with intercession by the saints on our behalf.

Hi David,

I think the point that jmcrae was trying to make was that even if you feel that it seems to place her on par with God, maybe you don’t have God high enough.

In non-Catholic Churches, people frequently see Jesus as their brother. As their friend. And savior. But they do not always seem to have the gift of AWE of God.

This is not a criticism. This is an observation. And if the parish you were involved in before converting was charasmatic, this AWE might not have been communicated to you, even if it was present. The different worship style is not always the best to communcating the AWE of God.

I definitely think you need to seek out a different parish that is more kid friendly. And I think you would both be happier if you could find a charasmatic Catholic group also. I think there are definite problems in the parish you attend.

But consider that part of the problem may reside with you also.
That the reason Mary seems to be on par with God is that you don’t have enough AWE and wonder of GOD. Again, please don’t see this as criticism. Just an observation, personal on my own part. I know that as a convert to the Catholic church, this was my problem with Mary. What I saw as too much for Mary, was really, not enough AWE for God on my part.

If this is not your case, then just throw away the advice. But please, consider, that understanding and knowing that Jesus is your savior, believing in the Holy Trinity, does not automatically give one the proper awe and respect of God. I know it didn’t for me.

God bless,
Maria

 

[jmcrae]

A very good explanation and emphasis thankyou. This is the bit that I had trouble with:

9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery."

This is unchastity that occurred before the wedding - that is, if she was not a virgin at the time of the wedding (ie: had previously been married, or had been living a life of prostitution/unchastity).

It has nothing to do with anything that takes place after the wedding, as the rest of the passage makes clear.

 

[theAuthor]

guanophore,

Thankyou so much for your exegesis and other references to back up your point. Problem solved :bowdown:
I am so relieved, because it was the only instance where I have come across a seeming contradiction between the Magesterium and Scripture. That stars are all back in alignment in my brain and all is well. You are good at this stuff!

MariaG,
My thinking was that concentration on Mary negated the “direct line” to God that Jesus told ud we have. I will indeed meditate more this week on God’s greatness. Maybe SherryLynn, I need to start a thread “How do I develop a relationship with Our Lady?” I indeed have some prayers to say. I feel really blessed, you’ve all been helpful.

I don’t think that anyone is forcing you to pray for the prayers of Mary. It seems more like you are seeing others asking for her help and feel pressured to do the same. You should not feel that way. Whenever you are praying because the people around praying that way it can be a wonderful thing. Or it could be that you are losing your focus. It sounds like the later is happening.

True.

Anamchara, you have too many PMs, so I wrote you one which wasn’t accepted.

 

[theAuthor]

Overall feeling much better about the doctrinal things, thanks everyone.

Now we’ll just see how we go at Mass with the kiddies this weekend!

 

[JudiTherese]

Is there a Mass that has more families in attendance? I know our 11am on Sunday is always LOUD with kids babbling (we have no cry room either) but nobody seems to mind.

We attend the Sunday evening mass-it has more contemporary music with a large band which I love-and there are a few kids there as well, but the music seems to keep their attention.

 

[theAuthor]

Not that we know of. There is a Charismatic conference and a charismatic group we want to contact. We are used to the idea of being loyal to one local church, so to go to another Mass would seem like church-hopping. We’ll need to get over that.

 

[JudiTherese]

I didn’t mean at a different Parish. Our Parish has a total of four Masses on Saturday and Sunday. We did just join this parish last January because it was more suitable for our family than the one we had been attending for years. I didn’t consider it church hopping-just finding a place that fit better so we could get involved. Good luck!

 

[anamchara]

Anamchara, you have too many PMs, so I wrote you one which wasn’t accepted.

Hi david, not sure what you quoted above your note here but it wasn’t my words. I know it gets confusing when several people are replying to you.

I have cleared my PM box! Sorry about that! go ahead and try again. I’d love to hear from you.

 

[MariaG]

Overall feeling much better about the doctrinal things, thanks everyone.

Now we’ll just see how we go at Mass with the kiddies this weekend!

Glad we all can be of help .

Remember, there is nothing Satan would like better to have you and your family leave the Catholic Church. Expect these doubts and attacks to happen frequently.

Questioning and seeking the truth are good, and can even be from God. Doubts about joining the Catholic Church are just Satan’s attacks.

Put on the full armor of God everyday. Pray as a family. And most of all, continue to seek a relationship with Our blessed Mother that you are comfortable with and that will be pleasing to God. I know when I was looking for true understanding on this, I would not ask Mary to pray for me at all. I would ask Christ to help me understand why it is pleasing to Him to answer prayers through His mother. I would ask Christ to help me understand deep in my heart, the Church’s teachings about Mary. I would ask the Holy Spirit to lead me to all truth on Mary.

Guess what? He did. I can see how the scripture verse, “my soul magnifies the Lord” is really true. Everytime God answers prayers through Mary, it magnifies His greatness. Every teaching about Mary, shows the holiness of Jesus. I can truly see this now.

And seek out that charasmatic Catholic community

God Bless,
Maria

 

[dessert]

Overall feeling much better about the doctrinal things, thanks everyone.

Now we’ll just see how we go at Mass with the kiddies this weekend!

Try sitting in the back of the church for awhile so you can walk the children out if they get too restless. Bring a new book of bible stories for the child a special one and tell your child that that is special for sunday Church (they feel important if they are holding a book )or you can get special catholic prayer books for children or ask another family who has older children if you can sit with them for role models or my mother always did was give us a dollar to put in the collection like she did but not so many put cash in anymore if I wsn’t polite and sat still ,which see said was respect for the priest giving is talk,I didn’t get to do that like the adults. I liked holding the dollar for a half hour. I mean 15 min as the mass wasn’t as long as it is today. I learned later that she was putting inmore money than I knew and when I wanted to put in more she said maybe later when I earned the money and I could make a choice.
I hope you had a good weekend Bless your family!
Dessert

 

[JudiTherese]

And, if the back of the church doesn’t work, try the front. That’s what we do and it works like a charm. More to look at for a little one. I also let my ds look at a book or write during the homily. He’s almost 5, and has to pay attention to everything else, but during that 15 minute period he can do an activity.

 

[dessert]

And, if the back of the church doesn’t work, try the front. That’s what we do and it works like a charm. More to look at for a little one. I also let my ds look at a book or write during the homily. He’s almost 5, and has to pay attention to everything else, but during that 15 minute period he can do an activity.

I don’t quite agree with this as father is talking to all of us and the other times of prayers are when the children hear the repeated prayers and will learn them just from repetition but you are reinforcing ignoring the priest.
Other people are not polite to stare ither.

I admit that my advice does not reinforce money but giving to the church and my mother always said it would go to missions to help othe poor and she was honest about the entire situation.
I was just trying to help as getting the children involved in the mass.

 

[clmowry]

And that’s pretty much why you really don’t have an alternative to the Catholic Church…IMHO.

Only a couple of options when it comes to receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, just like he told us too.

I’ll be praying for you and your family.

Chuck

I love the Eucharist, the revenence of the Mass, …

 

[MariaG]

And, if the back of the church doesn’t work, try the front. That’s what we do and it works like a charm. More to look at for a little one. I also let my ds look at a book or write during the homily. He’s almost 5, and has to pay attention to everything else, but during that 15 minute period he can do an activity.

As well as, if one is in the front, you don’t see the heads turning around to glare at you

We either sit right up front, or up in the balcony. That way my five year old can see everything.

While I do encourage him to pay attention, (count how many times Father says God, or Jesus, or Holy, or…), we do allow him to read books or play quietly with a small toy. The only time that he has to pay attention and put down any toys or books, is during consecration.

And at this point, I am extremely happy because when I am sick, he begs to go to church with his older brothers because he wants to worship God. “I want to go to church to worship God.” Those are his words. Attention may not be there 100% of the time, but he knows what he is there for:thumbsup:

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Overall feeling much better about the doctrinal things, thanks everyone.

Now we’ll just see how we go at Mass with the kiddies this weekend!

davidarlette,

I just wanted to encourage you in your efforts to bring the kiddos to Mass. I am very sorry that some people have made you feel unwelcome. I, personally, love seeing little children at Mass (actually, I enjoy seeing them anywhere). I may turn around when I hear baby sounds, but that’s just to try and spot the cutie.

My parents didn’t take me to Mass. I missed out on having a relationship with God as a child because they never taught me anything about Him. God bless you for giving your children the opportunity to know and love God. It is the greatest gift you can ever give them.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

If I rang him today, he’d still be able to calm me down.

Call him! I wish I had someone like that available to me in my moments of doubt. There’s no need for you to shoulder all this on your own.

I expected Catholicism to be the same everywhere, but it is not. I came up against anti-prot bigotry, being called a convert despite already believing, etc.

I’m sure you know this already – but you can’t judge the religion based on the actions of some bad people, or even some good people for that matter. Every religion has plenty of both. The religion stands or falls on its truth, nothing else.

I can sympathize about the toddler situation. My toddler is usually well behaved, but sometimes kids will be kids. I’ve gotten plenty of unhappy looks.
Although I can also sympathize with the “lookers”. When someone’s trying to pray, a babbling baby can definitely be a distraction.

I guess I’m full of sympathy.

Good luck!