What if you already beleive Satan's lie?

[ryanoneil]

Hi but it is in the book,the bible and it speaks of the return of Christ and discribes all the things that will take place Before his return. He hasn’t returned yet has he? It was ment for all time and the end time when you will See the Lord comming in the air. Nancy

It really comes down to whether (Rev 20:1-6) is spiritual or physical. An emphasis on a literal physical interpretation is called millenarianism, millennialism, and chiliasm. This belief did appear quite early in the Church, but it was a small minority belief. The vast majority of Christians believed in amillennialism, a spiritual reign of Christ that has been present in the Church since Pentecost. Neither the eastern nor western church accepted premillenialism or a physical 1,000 year reign of Christ.

Ammillennialist teach that Christ’s return will come after the Millennium and immediately before eternity. They believe that the Millennium is a spiritual reign of Christ. In other words, the Millennium is an ecclesiastical kingdom, founded at Pentacost.

So ammillennialist believe that we have been in (Rev 20:1-6) for almost two-thousand years now. they believe that the thousand years is symbolically a long time, and not precisely 365,250 days. They believe that the thousand years spoken of in the Apocalypse must be understood within its figurative context. One thousand is the product of ten times ten times ten; thus it is a complete and perfect number.

So, ammillennialist believe that the Apocalypse has been fulfilled (in a spiritual sense) up to (Rev 20). All that is left is the end of the millenium and the events that follow. Now, the initial fulfillment of prophecy may be a prophecy of a still-future final fulfillment. In other words, (Rev 1-19) may be a pre-figurement of (Rev 20:7-15) and when it comes to pass we will gain a fuller understanding of the entire historical context.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Well, I’m glad you are here and I hope you find answers that lead you to the church. I am sometimes one of the mean catholics, I guess my instinct is sometimes defensive because I look at some of the protestant posters and I “know” what they truly believe about catholics. I having grown up protestant know that I was taught catholics worsip idols, worship Mary, pray to man, the pope is the antichrist and the church is the whore of Babylon. Those are the nice things you can print on a christian website.

Because I know what a lot of protestants actually think about catholics when I see a lot of for lack of a better term code words, I get a little ticked. I fully understand and support anyone coming here with questions about the catholic faith or doctrine and I believe the catholic faith has produced more intellectual and great religous philosophors than any other christian denomination by far so it is a great site for just intellectual exchange. Its the ones here to convert the pagans who get on my nerves, because they are rarely honest, if you asked them about the pope being the antichrist or the church the whore of babylon they would act like they had never heard of what you are talking about when in fact, i went to a website one of the posters had directed a person looking for a good “baptist” site and the very poster was there talking of the RCC in those very terms.

Anyway-that is a long explanation of why some of us are sometimes overly rude. Not justified but an explanation. I truly hope you find what you are seeking and you are able to seperate the members from the organization. Like any organization the members of the RCC have faults, but the organisation is wonderful.

I was an agnostic from growing up Baptist. I could not and would not believfe in the God of the Baptist church, when I started going to mass with my wife, she never asked me to convert but I was blessed and God granted me faith and I believed. I have also received another miracle last year whenI was diagnosed with maignant pancreatic cancer. 12 days late the malignant tumors turned into benign tumors. although I still had to have a awful operation to remove the tumors(whipple, look that up it is nbad) but my life was saved by prayer.

Hi my mother died from that and cancer runs all through our family.I know about the miracles in the church Ive been in a church yrs ago that had cruches and wheel chairs at the front door and I know the church does exercisium to remove evil spirits. But I was always scared when i was a child taking comunnion because i believed i was eating the real body of Christ I just dont know

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

It really comes down to whether (Rev 20:1-6) is spiritual or physical. An emphasis on a literal physical interpretation is called millenarianism, millennialism, and chiliasm. This belief did appear quite early in the Church, but it was a small minority belief. The vast majority of Christians believed in amillennialism, a spiritual reign of Christ that has been present in the Church since Pentecost. Neither the eastern nor western church accepted premillenialism or a physical 1,000 year reign of Christ.

Ammillennialist teach that Christ’s return will come after the Millennium and immediately before eternity. They believe that the Millennium is a spiritual reign of Christ. In other words, the Millennium is an ecclesiastical kingdom, founded at Pentacost.

So ammillennialist believe that we have been in (Rev 20:1-6) for almost two-thousand years now. they believe that the thousand years is symbolically a long time, and not precisely 365,250 days. They believe that the thousand years spoken of in the Apocalypse must be understood within its figurative context. One thousand is the product of ten times ten times ten; thus it is a complete and perfect number.

So, ammillennialist believe that the Apocalypse has been fulfilled (in a spiritual sense) up to (Rev 20). All that is left is the end of the millenium and the events that follow. Now, the initial fulfillment of prophecy may be a prophecy of a still-future final fulfillment. In other words, (Rev 1-19) may be a pre-figurement of (Rev 20:7-15) and when it comes to pass we will gain a fuller understanding of the entire historical context.

No if you believe that then it could put you in danger of worshiping the false Christ when he shows up,for he is to show up first and after the fallingaway Christ comes back. Nancy

 

[michaelcollins]

Hi my mother died from that and cancer runs all through our family.I know about the miracles in the church Ive been in a church yrs ago that had cruches and wheel chairs at the front door and I know the church does exercisium to remove evil spirits. But I was always scared when i was a child taking comunnion because i believed i was eating the real body of Christ I just dont know

md anderson has just released results from one study and a yr ago northwestern another you should take restavol(red wine extract) and tumeric, both caused the pancreatic cancer cells to kill themselves) I take them both, the tumeric which is hard for the body to absorp with fish oil, you also can take it with black pepper for better absorption, there is some genetic links with pancreatic cancer so take these to protect yourself.

 

[marywel]

md anderson has just released results from one study and a yr ago northwestern another you should take restavol(red wine extract) and tumeric, both caused the pancreatic cancer cells to kill themselves) I take them both, the tumeric which is hard for the body to absorp with fish oil, you also can take it with black pepper for better absorption, there is some genetic links with pancreatic cancer so take these to protect yourself.

Michael, have you researched Graviola at all for cancer? I was diagnosed with uterine cancer in July last year … it took a while to get things set up with the additional tests and finding TWO surgeons cuz I had to have a huge hernia removed just so they could close me from the hysterectomy lol … any way, I began 2-3K mg/daily of graviola, along with some other herbs (tumeric included) when they removed my plumbing and sent it off, it reversed to the point of only being PRE-CANCEROUS … now, I KNOW prayer had a lot to do with it too, but I believe God also lead me to the supplements as well … but I have to say, many were praying for me … but just wondering if you’d looked into graviola

 

[michaelcollins]

Michael, have you researched Graviola at all for cancer? I was diagnosed with uterine cancer in July last year … it took a while to get things set up with the additional tests and finding TWO surgeons cuz I had to have a huge hernia removed just so they could close me from the hysterectomy lol … any way, I began 2-3K mg/daily of graviola, along with some other herbs (tumeric included) when they removed my plumbing and sent it off, it reversed to the point of only being PRE-CANCEROUS … now, I KNOW prayer had a lot to do with it too, but I believe God also lead me to the supplements as well … but I have to say, many were praying for me … but just wondering if you’d looked into graviola

No but I will. I never took supplements or vitamina before I do now. I know prayer saved my life that and my wifes faith. However, after the surgury I started researching and along with scaring me to death I learned about these tumeric and restravol as having the best results for pancreatic and other cancers.

Also if I had cancer I would get Ukrain a drup invented from a plant in the Ukrain by a phd there who has been harrasse by the goverment and pharmacuticals. national cancer institute has it listed problem is lackof research. it works according to limited research up to last stages and on most cancers except lukemia.

we will have to move this to pm though I think this type post violates the forum rules so if anything else pm me so we dont bother the moderators.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

md anderson has just released results from one study and a yr ago northwestern another you should take restavol(red wine extract) and tumeric, both caused the pancreatic cancer cells to kill themselves) I take them both, the tumeric which is hard for the body to absorp with fish oil, you also can take it with black pepper for better absorption, there is some genetic links with pancreatic cancer so take these to protect yourself.

Thank You very much My husband has pancreatic problems that runs in his family. The tumeric is also a spice is that the one? I have that the restavol I can proberly pick up in the GNC store is it liquid or capsules? It’s a tought way to go my mother suffered alot.They thought she had a bad kidney so they were treating her for that. when she sent me all the dolls I had made her I knew she was going to die,she never told me but i knew. She collected dolls and I usto do ceramics so I would make them for her and she would give them to the nursing home connected to her apartment for the nuns to raffle off at bingo. I still write to Sister Ruth Ann at Holy Trinity in Cheyane Wyoming. She is burried out there,if the Nun hadn’t called and told me two day’s later I would have proberly found out the hard way.We never did bond,my sister was her pet so she lived out there with her.I stayed home that night from work I had a strange feeling I just needed to be home. I was playing my instruments and I remembered playing Irene good night and at the end I said “goodnight Irene” and I thought of her and tears fell and the phone rang,it was sister Ruth Ann she asked me how I was and I said my mother died didnt she! and she said yes,how did you know I said no one calls me from out there so i had an idea when i herd your voice. I never got to go to her funeral,but the NUN said it was nice. Then I called the hospitol and they said they didn’t know she had another child but they sent me a copy of the death paper of what she died of. My fathers father died of lukemia, you know I have to stop know it seems like i’m crying on your shoulder and the topic is about the creep satan. Thank You for the information love of Christ Nancy

 

[michaelcollins]

Thank You very much My husband has pancreatic problems that runs in his family. The tumeric is also a spice is that the one? I have that the restavol I can proberly pick up in the GNC store is it liquid or capsules? It’s a tought way to go my mother suffered alot.They thought she had a bad kidney so they were treating her for that. when she sent me all the dolls I had made her I knew she was going to die,she never told me but i knew. She collected dolls and I usto do ceramics so I would make them for her and she would give them to the nursing home connected to her apartment for the nuns to raffle off at bingo. I still write to Sister Ruth Ann at Holy Trinity in Cheyane Wyoming. She is burried out there,if the Nun hadn’t called and told me two day’s later I would have proberly found out the hard way.We never did bond,my sister was her pet so she lived out there with her.I stayed home that night from work I had a strange feeling I just needed to be home. I was playing my instruments and I remembered playing Irene good night and at the end I said “goodnight Irene” and I thought of her and tears fell and the phone rang,it was sister Ruth Ann she asked me how I was and I said my mother died didnt she! and she said yes,how did you know I said no one calls me from out there so i had an idea when i herd your voice. I never got to go to her funeral,but the NUN said it was nice. Then I called the hospitol and they said they didn’t know she had another child but they sent me a copy of the death paper of what she died of. My fathers father died of lukemia, you know I have to stop know it seems like i’m crying on your shoulder and the topic is about the creep satan. Thank You for the information love of Christ Nancy

God bless and I’ll say a prayer for your mother, you know us catholics we pray for the dead. the restravol is in pill/tablet form as is the tumeric. md anderson said they are looking for ways for the body to absorb the tumeric better- fish oil helps but so does black peper. since the surgury I take 2 tumeric about 500mg a day 2 restravol about 600, i green tea an antioxident, i vitamin d( places with more sun less incidence of pancreatic cancer) a b complex evry 3rd day kelp(iodine)a multivitamin with minerals, goldenseal(hearing) and something else cant remember.

Look up Ukrain on the web, only problemn very expensive, 2500 for preventative doses, have to have dr write script and has to be given iv, 25,000 for treatment if you have cancer, course less than my $200,000 for hospitals, dr’s and operation.

all the best, and I’ll pray you return to mother church despite the prescence of us catholics corupting it.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

God bless and I’ll say a prayer for your mother, you know us catholics we pray for the dead. the restravol is in pill/tablet form as is the tumeric. md anderson said they are looking for ways for the body to absorb the tumeric better- fish oil helps but so does black peper. since the surgury I take 2 tumeric about 500mg a day 2 restravol about 600, i green tea an antioxident, i vitamin d( places with more sun less incidence of pancreatic cancer) a b complex evry 3rd day kelp(iodine)a multivitamin with minerals, goldenseal(hearing) and something else cant remember.

Look up Ukrain on the web, only problemn very expensive, 2500 for preventative doses, have to have dr write script and has to be given iv, 25,000 for treatment if you have cancer, course less than my $200,000 for hospitals, dr’s and operation.

all the best, and I’ll pray you return to mother church despite the prescence of us catholics corupting it.

Thank's love you Nancy :thumbsup:

 

[SHW]

JL: I have wondered about that also. To me it makes no sense to raise a body for others to see and then send it back to the grave to decay again. If they had rose like Lazarus then we would have heard more about their second life. My view, they were holy people perhaps prophets maybe St Joseph, Moses etc. who have been assumed into heaven with glorified bodies. This is my personal view, as the Church has no defined teaching on it. It is not a doctrine of the Church, I may believe as I think so long as it does not contradict Church teaching.

I agree with you. I still think the same as you do, but I know now that it is possible that I could be wrong, as has happened before with my Scripture interpretation.

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

I agree with you. I still think the same as you do, but I know now that it is possible that I could be wrong, as has happened before with my Scripture interpretation.

Pax,
SHW

why not a figurative solution that really matters?

the prophets prefigure the Church’s doctrinal development. There was the Law and the Prophets in the OT, and there is Scripture and Sacred Tradition in the NT.

Hence, the section on the two witnesses is how the doctrinal development of the Church, which culminates in the minor apostasy, or dark night of the soul, is vindicated by the minor Chastisement, which fulfills the Jewish Chastisement, the Babylonian exile. After all, the mystics prophesy that Christians will be reunited and the Gospel extended and accepted by all except the Jews after the minor tribulation is over.

hence, symbolizing the assumption of the witnesses. The period of their death is just the last 40 years, in which the Gentiles have utterly scoffed at RCC Revelation in much the same way that the Jews scofffed at the prophets just before the exile.

In the exile, the jews feared God again, and were restored to the holy Land.

In the minor chastisement, the Gentiles shall repent, and all shall return to Catholicism. then shall the spiritual foreign lands be restored to Catholicism, and there shall be peace, the assumption of the witnesses.

this is more meaningful: for if they attempted to harm Peter and paul, or Enoch and Elijah literally, so what.

Rather, those who attempt to harm the doctrines from Scripture and Tradition harm themselves by the very spiritual nature of the degree of their error.

Murder of the witnesses symbolizes apostasy, which started just as jerusalem was no longer trampled, late 60’s

Food for thougth.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

why not a figurative solution that really matters?

the prophets prefigure the Church’s doctrinal development. There was the Law and the Prophets in the OT, and there is Scripture and Sacred Tradition in the NT.

Hence, the section on the two witnesses is how the doctrinal development of the Church, which culminates in the minor apostasy, or dark night of the soul, is vindicated by the minor Chastisement, which fulfills the Jewish Chastisement, the Babylonian exile. After all, the mystics prophesy that Christians will be reunited and the Gospel extended and accepted by all except the Jews after the minor tribulation is over.

hence, symbolizing the assumption of the witnesses. The period of their death is just the last 40 years, in which the Gentiles have utterly scoffed at RCC Revelation in much the same way that the Jews scofffed at the prophets just before the exile.

In the exile, the jews feared God again, and were restored to the holy Land.

In the minor chastisement, the Gentiles shall repent, and all shall return to Catholicism. then shall the spiritual foreign lands be restored to Catholicism, and there shall be peace, the assumption of the witnesses.

this is more meaningful: for if they attempted to harm Peter and paul, or Enoch and Elijah literally, so what.

Rather, those who attempt to harm the doctrines from Scripture and Tradition harm themselves by the very spiritual nature of the degree of their error.

Murder of the witnesses symbolizes apostasy, which started just as jerusalem was no longer trampled, late 60’s

Food for thougth.

I have a question,where in scriptures dose it say that the Prods. and the Catholics will all come together? What witnesses do you mean? Do you think it is the word of God or two people? thank you Nancy

 

[SHW]

why not a figurative solution that really matters?

I think it mattered to those who rose from the dead on that day of Jesus’ resurrection. (Matthew 27:51-53).

But, as we both know, it could also be a prefigurement of future events just as many things in the Old Covenant prefigured things in the New Covenant.

hence, symbolizing the assumption of the witnesses. The period of their death is just the last 40 years, in which the Gentiles have utterly scoffed at RCC Revelation in much the same way that the Jews scofffed at the prophets just before the exile. In the exile, the jews feared God again, and were restored to the holy Land.

Did you mean 400 years?

In the minor chastisement, the Gentiles shall repent, and all shall return to Catholicism. then shall the spiritual foreign lands be restored to Catholicism, and there shall be peace, the assumption of the witnesses. this is more meaningful: for if they attempted to harm Peter and paul, or Enoch and Elijah literally, so what.

Jesus prayed that “all” would be one. His prayer has not been answered yet, but I do believe that it will be answered before Jesus returns. (John 17:20-22)

If this is literally what will happen, then Catholic scholars believe that Enoch and Elijah will be the two witnesses who will be killed by Antichrist. These two men have never died physically so far.

Rather, those who attempt to harm the doctrines from Scripture and Tradition harm themselves by the very spiritual nature of the degree of their error.

Murder of the witnesses symbolizes apostasy, which started just as jerusalem was no longer trampled, late 60’s
Food for thougth.

Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome as you say.

bible.ca/pre-flavius-josephus-70AD-Mt24-fulfilled.htmbible.ca/pre-flavius-josephus-70AD-Mt24-fulfilled.htm

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

I think it mattered to those who rose from the dead on that day of Jesus’ resurrection. (Matthew 27:51-53).

But, as we both know, it could also be a prefigurement of future events just as many things in the Old Covenant prefigured things in the New Covenant.

Did you mean 400 years?

Jesus prayed that “all” would be one. His prayer has not been answered yet, but I do believe that it will be answered before Jesus returns. (John 17:20-22)

If this is literally what will happen, then Catholic scholars believe that Enoch and Elijah will be the two witnesses who will be killed by Antichrist. These two men have never died physically so far.

Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome as you say.

bible.ca/pre-flavius-josephus-70AD-Mt24-fulfilled.htmbible.ca/pre-flavius-josephus-70AD-Mt24-fulfilled.htm

Pax,
SHW

personally, i hate preterists. IMHO, they are dismissive, arrogant buttholes.

The Fathers were not, in general, preterists. They were spiritual historicists, like me. Preterism is a modern conception of liberals and rationalists who wish to bypass the true apocalyptic questions, which is the meaning of the ages of salvation history

neither preterism nor futurism can really address the apocalyptic questions. Only idealism and spiritual historicism can do that.

 

[spauline]

I have a question,where in scriptures dose it say that the Prods. and the Catholics will all come together? What witnesses do you mean? Do you think it is the word of God or two people? thank you Nancy

We don’t have proof that Christian unity can ever be attained, only that God desires it. John 17:20 and onward.

But the mystics prophesy it will happen.

Christian unity can only mean all Christians are Catholics, since Catholicism is the only FULLY true form of Christianity.

I’m saying the Two Witnesses are figurative, and are the Sacred Scripture and the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church. That is, the Written Word of God, and the Oral Word of God.

For more info, read this:

4marks.com/blogs/details.html?blog_entry_id=2166

 

[juliamajor]

Hi but it is in the book,the bible and it speaks of the return of Christ and discribes all the things that will take place Before his return. He hasn’t returned yet has he? It was ment for all time and the end time when you will See the Lord comming in the air. Nancy

Itt mi
It might be in the book- but how is it understood? can we 2000yrs later understand the social and historical context in which the book was written?It was written for those suffering in the past and in the severe context of persecution and discrimination-does it have meaning for us? certainly!-we know Christ will return- as he said but under what circumstances. Revelation was a book much discussed in early church for it’s muddiness.It’s not exactly crystal clear.The language is symbolic-, the images vivid and disturbing- a real attention getter.It’s not to be taken literally.The genre that it was written in was not literal.Images, symbols and codes to reach those who needed aid and and moral support & to keep those not in the know out of the know.Actually the word 'rapture doesn’t appear in the english bible. It actually is derived from the Latin bible

 

[SHW]

personally, i hate preterists. IMHO, they are dismissive, arrogant buttholes.

The Fathers were not, in general, preterists. They were spiritual historicists, like me. Preterism is a modern conception of liberals and rationalists who wish to bypass the true apocalyptic questions, which is the meaning of the ages of salvation history

neither preterism nor futurism can really address the apocalyptic questions. Only idealism and spiritual historicism can do that.

Hi Spauline,

So are you implying that the actual historical fact that Elijah and Enoch have never died and the literal reading of Revelation where God sends two witnesses, who will be killed in the Apocalypse, are just coincidental?

I have always thought that if the Apocalypse is to be taken literally, then we would surely know when the Antichrist is in charge, because we would have to decline the mark of the beast from him, even though it is required if we wanted to do any business or buy and sell. And if this is true, I wondered why Peter and Paul said that we need to be ever watchful because Jesus will return unexpectedly like a thief in the night?

2 Peter 3:10-11"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[a] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,"

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 “But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.”

Your spiritual historicism makes sense to me except for the conundrum that I have about the two witnesses and Enoch & Elijah.

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

Dear SHW,

I am sorry for being mean. I get frustrated. Please forgive me. God bless you, SHW.


I think those other interpretations can be true too. I didn’t mean to deny them. THey can be legitimate, after all, the Church sees all the layers as possible at the same time:

Preterism, futurism, idealism, historicism.

So, no, all that can be true.

Again, I am very sorry for being mean, I will try to be nicer in the future.

In Her Love,
Scott

 

[SHW]

Dear SHW,

I am sorry for being mean. I get frustrated. Please forgive me. God bless you, SHW.


I think those other interpretations can be true too. I didn’t mean to deny them. THey can be legitimate, after all, the Church sees all the layers as possible at the same time:

Preterism, futurism, idealism, historicism.

So, no, all that can be true.

Again, I am very sorry for being mean, I will try to be nicer in the future.

In Her Love,
Scott

Hi Spauline

I was not offended. So no need to forgive.

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

Hi Spauline

I was not offended. So no need to forgive.

Pax,
SHW

Dear SHW, I am so glad you are not offended. God bless you!

Pax, too, from my heart, scott