What Is a Just Wage?

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Years ago, I read Fast Food Nation, in which Eric Schlosser details the history of our road system. Train and trolley companies used to have to pay for their own tracks. But publicly funded roads are the product of heavy auto industry lobbying. It’s enough to wonder how our roads would look if Ford and GM had to pay for them.
 
I have my doubts about this. There are many able-bodied in the u.s. who have no options other than low-wage, part-time jobs that don’t provide the means to live.
 
Ok, so what’s your classification for “dense major cities?”
 
Socrates92 said:
Ok, so what’s your classification for “dense major cities?”
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Nothing remotely close to the 50k figure you mentioned.

In WA state, only Seattle has reliable public transportation in the city. You will need a car if you live in the suburbs or any other city in the state. Even in seattle it’s not great, you are mostly stuck on surface roads in a bus, no subway system.

The whole US only has 15 subway systems

 
So has certainty of what’s not true.

I’ve seen it - heck, I’ve lived it. The only place in town hiring was walmart. Walmart doesn’t give you enough money to meet your expenses. But between not owning a car (I didn’t make enough to buy one) and having a job already, I was ineligible for any other work because I wasn’t available enough. I couldn’t afford to live where I could walk, and biking was out of the question for much of the year. Moving would have helped, but you have to pay a deposit and first month’s rent and provide proof of income in your new place.

I got out because I had help, but not everyone’s going to have that help.
 
Some join the military to get a fresh start. Indeed, many have embarked on new careers with skills gained during service.
 
Some of us would have made a recruiter fall over laughing.

I had 2 surgeries prior to age 18 and by that time was taking a half a dozen meds every day just to stay healthy enough to show up at work. I guarantee the military wouldn’t have wanted me.
 
If one agrees to insufficient wages he is certainly not following this teaching. Indeed, he either needs to negotiate or find another opportunity.
 
Yet, for those who might qualify, it is an honorable path to personal growth and career planning.
 
Most countries have cyber divisions now to counter hacking. Now all of them are physical.
 
I respect those who do. A friend of mine joined up recently, and I think it’s been very good for her. Especially as a young lady from an unstable home, I think the stability and support is also doing well for her.

But there are also going to be those like me who don’t qualify for that, or perhaps for many other opportunities. I think sometimes people forget young doesn’t always imply healthy. Not all of us got the benefit of having our 20’s be a time when we had lots of extra energy and the health to take on demanding jobs and hours to better ourselves.
Cyril said:
Most countries have cyber divisions now to counter hacking. Now all of them are physical.
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They do, but from what I’ve seen around here they’re generally taking people who are already trained in cybersecurity, at least for jobs that don’t require the physical activity levels. (I’ve actually been working for myself to get a degree in the field.) A lot of work is done via civilian contractors rather than by enlisted members.

The fact that I’ve already had a PTSD diagnosis probably wouldn’t help either. And some of the meds I took for a long time are not nice.
 
Don’t sell yourself short. I’m sure certain recruiters are looking for giant, flesheating, Panthers. 😎

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TheOldColonel said:
If one agrees to insufficient wages he is certainly not following this teaching. Indeed, he either needs to negotiate or find another opportunity.
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People in the third world don’t have those opportunities. Some horrible statistics…

Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty. According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty.
And they “die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death.”Source

 
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One thing I wish the Church addressed more is what are legitimate needs. Granted, living wage is the resources needed to provide necessities to one’s self and one’s family. In our materialistic world, And especially The excess of material goods in the United States, What is truly necessary and what is a luxury? Is a car necessary? Is a television necessary? Is a computer necessary? Or perhaps healthcare? Granted, this would very geographically from place to place based on socioeconomic privilege and so forth, but if God loves all of His children the same, How are we to determine what is truly Necessary Versus what is a privilege? For instance, people in Africa often do not have mobile phones or modern and safe automobile, but we do. If God created all of his children equally and in his image, did he mean for us all to be equal and economic in material resources on this earth. Was inequality a part of Original Sin? We all deserve a living wage, but we need to determine what standard of living does everyone deserve in order to prosper and provide for themselves and their families. Theoretically under the Distributist Catholic economics, the means of production would be spread as far as possible in order to increase the standard of living for all parties involved. This is Exemplified by the 85000 Member Co-Op Company in Spain, where the standard of living is among the highest in the world. Under this argument, should we only was from companies that have employee stock options in order to increase employee Standard of living such as Hy-Vee grocery and Starbucks? There seem to be a lot of varied opinions on this and Catholic social teaching and even among bishops, But overall has a tendency to remind me of the quote from George Orwell’s Animal Farm “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” At the end of the day, we all deserve a living wage in order to support ourselves and our families, but it needs to be determined what is that standard of living, and whether some people should have a higher standard of living in others, according to the Bible and social teaching.
 
Yes, exactly! I’m going to cast my hat in for minimalism. Are you living? Then you’re probably making a “living wage,” rather than a dying wage. North America (except Mexico), for the most part, is drastically more wealthy in comparison to ancient times, or even the times when of the social justice encyclicals. So, I think we need to put things in context.

For example, current US GDP per capita of ~52,000 is roughly double what it was 50 years ago (inflation adjusted). This suggests that, all else being equal, (yes I know income tax drastically distorts this) the average American has ~25,000 more per year than he did 50 years ago with which to invest, and thereby take ownership of the economy. Somehow, the average savings rate is still below 5% instead of 50%, and the average American still lives almost week-to-week… So… how much of this is simply by choice?

Alright folks, roast me. 😃
 
The other issue is of course what’s required to be able to do your job and function in the society you’re in.

We had a rather long discussion upthread about cars, and how in much of the U.S. public transit is extremely poor and most housing is not near jobs. Not having a car that runs reliably is liable to get you fired. Phones are in a similar case - if you can’t be reached by phone, you’re not hireable.

Other stuff gets interesting. For example, I know my housing conditions are vastly superior to the majority of the world. But I also know that I really couldn’t downgrade short of being homeless entirely. Paying significantly less than $600/month where I am to house a single individual is just not going to happen. I can’t go out and build myself a cottage on some unused land and get my water out of the nearby well and start farming a field for myself, even if that would be cheaper.
 
Hmm, I think we need a more in depth definition than that. If someone has sufficient savings/investments, a just wage could be zero, according to your definition.
 
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