What Is a Just Wage?

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Seems like we have a situation where we demand workers to improve their productivity but when it comes to companies…as soon as you raise wages they can’t cope and go broke. Economics works for all. Just as economic conditions will drive the worker to increase productivity it can also drive companies to be more efficient. There is also the factors of new businesses forming. So if one company goes broke and all workers are sacked but then 10 companies have grown (because they run more efficiently) and needed to hire more workers, well that’s a good thing according to schumpeter’s creative destruction.
 
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ProdglArchitect said:
Take, for example, a fast-food worker. The intended worker for that job is High School students. It’s an entry-level position meant to get the person some work experience and some pocket money.
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Even that only gets you part way there.

As I used to explain to my Economics classes, the pay itself is the smaller portion of what someone gets from a minimum wage job. The significant payoff is that the worker gets a verification that he shows up for work consistently, and works once he’s there.

This is why the $15 wage thing is so horribly anti-poor and anti-minority: it simply criminalizes the jobs that don’t produce enough to pay $15/hour; it doesn’t mystically raise the output of a new worker to enough to pay $15 hour.

The consequences, as the data is already showing in Seattle, is that not only our hours cut, but the total payed to workers in that range is reduced. That is, for those that keep their jobs, they still get paid less than before the “increase”.

(Of course, Economists have known this for ages, and keep trying to explain it, but noone wants to here. Fortunately, the physicists have better luck on gravity and kinetic energy with the folks that makes planes, bridges, and cars . . .)

doc hawk
 
Good point…price discrimination does occur for age groups, or veteran status, even sex (Women’s drink specials at bars). I had price discrimination based on income on my mind.
 
In that case, the employer shouldn’t take on extra employees that s/he cannot afford to pay decently. It is a business expense for which one must budget, just like lease payments, marketing, etc.

I just wanted to take a stab at a fair question, no harm done. But perhaps I’m overlooking a better idea. How would you answer the question? How should an employer in the circumstances described by @KMC pay a just wage, as a Catholic employer must in order to follow Church teaching?
I appreciate the “high level” perspective, however, coming up with a just wage requires digging into specifics. I asked this on another thread…how would you answer?

If you were an employer with many employees, how would you take into account “monthly living expenses”? Assume you are the HR VP for Walmart, and you have 2 people to stock shelves:

Employee “A” is 18, lives at home with his parents
Employee “B” is 35, has 3 children and a wife, who also works part time
Do you have an hourly wage that is different for each worker? Does the employee’s need for insurance, car, cell phone, daycare also impact the wage? Or do you overpay the younger worker beyond his needs?
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ProdglArchitect said:
Because of the nature of the nature of the industry that employs those people, and the type of work being undertaken. The only way these places stay in business at all is to operate cheaply. If they raise prices to pay their employees more, we will stop going to them.

Our society created the conditions that allow this to happen and, while it would be wonderful to pay everyone a livable wage, attempting to do so would likely result in their entire establishment being closed down.

If we want to fix the problem, we need to move beyond the demand for cheap and fast and be willing to collectively only support those places which pay their employees well.
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If businesses aren’t allowed to run on exploitation wages, they won’t be there to compete unfairly for businesses with the enterprises that pay just wages.
 
“Supposed to?” Where does this rule come from?

Most fast food workers are adults. http://cepr.net/documents/publications/fast-food-workers-2013-08.pdf

This whole discussion reminds me of an Internet comment I saw:
“Work hard and go to college so that you don’t have to flip burgers!”
“Lazy millennials, think they’re too good to flip burgers.”
“Well if you didn’t want to make minimum wage flipping burgers, you should have gotten a better job.”
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dochawk said:
As I used to explain to my Economics classes, the pay itself is the smaller portion of what someone gets from a minimum wage job. The significant payoff is that the worker gets a verification that he shows up for work consistently, and works once he’s there.
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I’m not sure that’s true. I’ve found the vast majority of jobs don’t see minimum wage jobs as proof of anything other than that you’re breathing. And very many employers will refuse to provide references (and frankly half the managers there had no clue what a good employee was anyway).
 
Point of order: Is anyone able to answer the thread question?

If you already did, please point me to your post because I came home to 53 new posts!

If not, what is a just wage? What does it look like? Keeping my original post in mind, how what Church teaching guide how to calculate this wage?

If you were or are a Catholic employer, what factors would you consider in how to pay your employees a just wage, per Church teaching?
 
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Theo520 said:
If we stopped importing millions of illegals, teens might start working again
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Immigrants come to the USA looking for a better life. Now if employers stopped hiring them, less would come. The reason they hire them is they don’t want to pay a just wage. Its all about supply and demand.

But this opens up a greater problem. Hatred for a people that are here illegally is from a faithless generation that do NOT love Christ, nor his Catholic church. The majority of people from Latin America are Catholic. Thank God for Pope Francis that confronts this head on is one of the reasons I left the Evangelical church and came back to my childhood Catholic Church.

1 John 4 20 Those who say, “I love God,” and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. 21 The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.
 
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redbetta said:
I wasn’t talking about a just wage.
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I was. That’s the topic of my thread. Are you able to address it? Are you able to answer my question? What would be a just wage, in compliance with Roman Catholic teaching, for adults in a low-skill, entry-level job?
 
DarkLight said:
I’ve found the vast majority of jobs don’t see minimum wage jobs as proof of anything other than that you’re breathing.
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In some cases, that takes proof 🤣

Overall, it is rare indeed to see anyone hired for any job that pays significantly more than the minimum wage, unless that person has prior employment.

I may be the only person I know who never worked a minimum wage job–but early in high school, I wasn’t beating it hugely. And I’d spent a couple of years running around mowing lawns, which helped when talking to folks about jobs.

hawk
 
KMC said:
But in this scenario, the wage itself is the discriminating factor. It supports someone who does not have a lot of financial responsibilities, which kind of meets the requirements of the CCC. In other words, its a just wage for some.
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I’m not clear, sorry. Are you advocating for a tiered wage system based on individual employee circumstances?

I’m not saying that I’m not open to it, but I’m wondering about the legalities surrounding it.
 
PetraG said:
If businesses aren’t allowed to run on exploitation wages, they won’t be there to compete unfairly for businesses with the enterprises that pay just wages.
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When you are talking about fast food joints, if they doubled their wages and doubled their prices, people would just eat at home or brownbag it into the office.

Would the thousands of fast food people be better off not working at all?
 
They’re not taking on extra employees. They’re having to pay whom they have. And they’re letting people go as well.

Is it just to have to fire folks to pay the ones you retain a higher wage?
 
Augustinian said:
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PetraG:
If businesses aren’t allowed to run on exploitation wages, they won’t be there to compete unfairly for businesses with the enterprises that pay just wages.
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When you are talking about fast food joints, if they doubled their wages and doubled their prices, people would just eat at home or brownbag it into the office.

Would the thousands of fast food people be better off not working at all?
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That is what is happening here.

And kiosks are popping up in lieu of hires.

I have no idea how people think this is supposed to work.
 
Wait a second. Are you all implying that the RCC shouldn’t be making economic policy? Whoa there – don’t tell the USCCB or Pope Francis. 🤣🤣🤣
 
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Grown adults don’t belong in low-skill, entry level jobs. I wouldn’t hire them. If you are an adult and working at the same skill level as a high schooler, then you have failed in life.
 
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