What is a Mormon?

[RebeccaJ]

It is also disingenuous in the fact that Mormons use the same terms as Christians, but have redefined those terms. Beginning with the word “God”, and going on into the Apostles creed, there isn’t anything in there that would align Mormon belief to Christian teaching.

Orthodoxy exists in Christianity. The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormonism as a Christian religion for good reason. There is one faith, and Mormons not only actively reject Christian faith, they actively seek to convert Christians away from the Christian faith.

Doing so here on this forum, as I just learned of a Catholic, who once posted often here in the Mormon threads, was “baptized” a Mormon a short time ago.

 

[JeanMichel]

Because of the romance and mystery of the Mennonite/Amish lifestyle, Mormons would like you to think that they are like them. However, the Mennonites/Amish believe in religious freedom, and the right to insulate themselves from aspects of modern society that they do not buy into. Most Mormons believe in pushing their lifestyle and beliefs on anyone willing to listen, and are intolerant of those who are not interested.

Mennonite/Amish are very family-oriented, are morally upright, and believe in living close to the land. In those ways, only, are they like some LDS.

Jerusha, I have never heard any Mormon express any desire to be viewed as the Amish, Quakers or any other group. They seem to be very happy just being Mormons and send out over 50,000 young missionaries into the world to preach what they believe is the gospel of Christ. Please let’s not create rumors that have no basis in reality or fact. Mormons believe strongly in the Great Commission…how is that being intolerant?

My, my, my there is a lot of misinformation about this small religious group. We can do better than this.

 

[JeanMichel]

They don’t simply reject the creeds of Christian churches they refer to them as an abomination. It is quite disingenuous of JeanMichel to describe their beliefs as aligning with the Apostles Creed when they teach that all Christian Creeds are an abomination and when no LDS poster here has disagreed with that assessment of the creeds.

The missionaries lesson on the abominable creeds can be viewed here if you go to page 51 on the Adobe document. The LDS.org description of the “First Vision” can be read here. It is quite evident from their own published words that the LDS do no accept the Apostles Creed as a profession of their faith.

Disingenuous? Do they are do they not believe every statement in the Apostle’s Creed other than the one statement about the Catholic faith?

 

[JeanMichel]

It is also disingenuous in the fact that Mormons use the same terms as Christians, but have redefined those terms. Beginning with the word “God”, and going on into the Apostles creed, there isn’t anything in there that would align Mormon belief to Christian teaching.

Orthodoxy exists in Christianity. The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormonism as a Christian religion for good reason. There is one faith, and Mormons not only actively reject Christian faith, they actively seek to convert Christians away from the Christian faith.

Doing so here on this forum, as I just learned of a Catholic, who once posted often here in the Mormon threads, was “baptized” a Mormon a short time ago.

Rebecca, we have very strong disagreements about the Mormon faith. You continuously take a very negative, I would say erroneous, perspective. Unfortunately, your statements do not align with facts taught by the Mormon church.

Orthodoxy is found within Catholicsm. I have issues with all organized relgions, even my own church, and their desire to attack and besmirch the beliefs of others. I prefer Bishop Fulton’s statement, we may not meet in the same pew, but we can kneel together and pray to God.

 

[Serap]

Serap:

While it’s true that there exists some superstition regarding the Garment within Mormon folklore, the official hierarchy generally discourage the recounting of magical tales about the Garment (or the temple in general), and there’s no official LDS teaching (that I know of) which imparts the Garment with any sort of material power.

This is similar to the superstition rampant in some Catholic sub-cultures which persist despite official teaching of the Church.

Kind of like some Catholics in Southern Europe wearing the “evil eye” pendant with their Crucifix.

 

[Serap]

I was on the LDS.org webiste and they made their religion look really attractive on that website also. It was all about loving Jesus, the importance of families and traditions.

This is what I found on the Mormon.org website:

13 Articles of Faith

---

1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4.We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5.We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9.We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Doing so here on this forum, as I just learned of a Catholic, who once posted often here in the Mormon threads, was “baptized” a Mormon a short time ago.

Except of course that poster, whom I know personally since we both live in NYC and attend the same ward, was not “converted” by the Mormons on this forum.

 

[Serap]

Ok…these four confuse me…What are they saying? Especially number 10…that’s very interesting to say the least.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Ok…these four confuse me…What are they saying? Especially number 10…that’s very interesting to say the least.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

We don’t hold to the Catholic belief of original sin. Yes, we believe that through Adam’s sin, mortality and sin were brought into the world. However, we believe that we can only be responsible for and punished for our own sins. Catholics have the speculative teaching (theologumen) of limbo of infants, which is based on the concept that infants that die without baptism still have original sin which precludes Heaven, but they do not have any personal mortal sins that would warrant Hell. So Limbo has been speculated on. Recently, the Vatican has moved towards a hope in the mercy of God in these cases, though not definitely saying that unbaptized infants are saved. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that we cannot be punished for anyone else’s sin, therefore such speculations are not necessary. We can only be held responsible for what we choose to do.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

Latter-day Saints believe that their Church is a restoration of the Church of New Testament times, and we therefore believe that it is organized in the same way as that Church (since we believe that they are the same), and we have prophets, apostles, deacons, bishops, teachers, etc. There have been various modifications to the Church structure as time has passed due to the needs of a worldwide Church.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

I think that this is pretty self-explanatory. We believe in various spiritual gifts, and that it is possible, through the Holy Ghost, to exercise these gifts, through faith in Jesus Christ, when given them from God.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

We believe that the New Jerusalem will be established on the American continent, specifically in Missouri (as we believe has been revealed by God in latter-day scripture). we believe that Christ will come again, and will reign on earth.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

I was on the LDS.org webiste and they made their religion look really attractive on that website also. It was all about loving Jesus, the importance of families and traditions.

That is really what matters to Mormons. It is because of our love for our Savior that we believe what we do and practice what we do.

 

[Serap]

That is really what matters to Mormons. It is because of our love for our Savior that we believe what we do and practice what we do.

In your opinion, why then do Catholics not consider LDS to be Christian?

 

[BYUChemAlum]

In your opinion, why then do Catholics not consider LDS to be Christian?

It seems to be because we differ from “traditional” Christianity in our views on the Godhead, so some claim that although we use the same name titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, our differing views make it as if we are not referring to the same Persons by these names.

I really am not concerned about that (nor would I assume that Catholics are concerned about various Evangelical groups that claim that the Catholic Church is not Christian), nor am I concerned with the Catholic Church not accepting our baptisms (since we do not accept any baptism not done by our priesthood). I know that I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior, that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that we can receive eternal life, and am a Christian (but not a “traditional/Trinitarian Christian”), regardless of what others wish to tell me I am or am not.

 

[Serap]

It seems to be because we differ from “traditional” Christianity in our views on the Godhead, so some claim that although we use the same name titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, our differing views make it as if we are not referring to the same Persons by these names.

I really am not concerned about that (nor would I assume that Catholics are concerned about various Evangelical groups that claim that the Catholic Church is not Christian), nor am I concerned with the Catholic Church not accepting our baptisms (since we do not accept any baptism not done by our priesthood). I know that I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior, that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that we can receive eternal life, and am a Christian (but not a “traditional/Trinitarian Christian”), regardless of what others wish to tell me I am or am not.

Good for you.

Why don’t Cathoics accept Mormon baptism?

So you guys don’t have the Eucharist?

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Good for you.

Why don’t Cathoics accept Mormon baptism?

I believe that it is for the reasons I mentioned above, that although we baptize “in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”, it is as if we are referring to a different “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” due to our differences on our views of God.

So you guys don’t have the Eucharist?

Latter-day Saints do not have a belief in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. We do not believe that bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. Also, we use water instead of wine in our Sacrament (“Sacrament” is what we call the Eucharist), since we do not drink wine or any alcohol, and also because we believe that God revealed in latter-days that we can use what is available, as long as we remember the body and blood of Jesus Christ, though this has become standardized to using bread and water.

We believe that through the Sacrament, by partaking in the blessed bread and water, we remember the atonement of Jesus Christ, renew our baptismal covenants, and invite the Spirit to be with us always.

 

[Serap]

I believe that it is for the reasons I mentioned above, that although we baptize “in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”, it is as if we are referring to a different “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” due to our differences on our views of God.

Latter-day Saints do not have a belief in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. We do not believe that bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. Also, we use water instead of wine in our Sacrament (“Sacrament” is what we call the Eucharist), since we do not drink wine or any alcohol, and also because we believe that God revealed in latter-days that we can use what is available, as long as we remember the body and blood of Jesus Christ, though this has become standardized to using bread and water.

We believe that through the Sacrament, by partaking in the blessed bread and water, we remember the atonement of Jesus Christ, renew our baptismal covenants, and invite the Spirit to be with us always.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs with us.

I would appreciate the thoughts of former Mormons also.

 

[Stephen168]

I was on the LDS.org webiste and they made their religion look really attractive on that website also. It was all about loving Jesus, the importance of families and traditions.

I think it depends on how you define “loving Jesus,” “family,” and “tradition.” Personally, I don’t see it.

 

[Serap]

I think it depends on how you define “loving Jesus,” “family,” and “tradition.” Personally, I don’t see it.

I’m very proud of Catholics for being so charitable on this thread. I really hope it remains charitable

 

[Marie5890]

Thanks for sharing your beliefs with us.

I would appreciate the thoughts of former Mormons also.

Serap,

BYUChem explained perfectly the differences and LDS belief.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, we have very strong disagreements about the Mormon faith. You continuously take a very negative, I would say erroneous, perspective. Unfortunately, your statements do not align with facts taught by the Mormon church.

JeanMichel, it is your dreamy-eyed view of Mormonism that doesn’t align to what Mormons teach. I was raised in Mormonism, by very Mormon parents. I KNOW what Mormons teach.

Certainly, you do not think that a god defined as a man, the same as any other man, who progressed to godhood, is one among many gods, lives on a planet near a distant star, possibly copulated with Mary to conceive Jesus and possibly has multiple wives in heaven, is the same One True GOD of Christianity?

Orthodoxy is found within Catholicsm. I have issues with all organized relgions, even my own church, and their desire to attack and besmirch the beliefs of others. I prefer Bishop Fulton’s statement, we may not meet in the same pew, but we can kneel together and pray to God.

Yes, I know you have issues with religion. You’ve said that often.

I am not besmirching Mormonism. I tell it exactly as their church has taught and is believed. I am not going to participate in their ruse to appear Christian.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thanks for sharing your beliefs with us.

I would appreciate the thoughts of former Mormons also.

They baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but their meaning behind those words is very different than that of any Christian (not just Catholic). They reject the Holy Trinity. They reject the nature of God as spirit. They reject Jesus as God Incarnate, but rather view Him as the same as themselves, just a level up on the way to progressing to godhood.

Further, their intent when they baptize is not the same as the Catholic Church. Christians baptize with the intent to bring a person into the ONE Body of Christ. Mormons baptize with the intent to remove people from the ONE Body of Christ, and into their own, insular, idea of what baptism means.

Their different view on the Eucharist doesn’t have anything to do with why the Catholic Church views them as not Christian. Protestants who have the same view as Mormons (from which they got their view) are considered Christian. We don’t baptize a baptized Lutheran or Presbyterian, because they are already baptized a Christian. We do baptize a baptized Mormon.

I have worked with converts in our RCIA program for a couple of years. Former Mormons clearly understand the differences, and because of these differences ask and want to be baptized into Christ’s Church. I haven’t seen this desire expressed by anyone who comes from mainline Christianity.