What is a Mormon?

[Marat]

Well, and there’s been an interesting development in the way that garments are produced and distributed. For years, the making of one’s own garments is prohibited. From what I understand, in the mid-20th Century in Utah, people could purchase garments in local JC Penney’s and other department stores. Then they were moved so that the church distributed them in temples only, and then online. However, due to the desecration of the garments by non-believers, the garments are now only available to people with worthy temple recommends.

Now, for those of you who are not familiar with garments, once an LDS member is “endowed” in the temple, it is a spiritual oath requirement to wear them constantly, with few exceptions such as bathing and swimming, until their death. To be endowed and then to cease wearing garments is one of the biggest sins that a person can commit in the LDS church.

Here’s where the problems come in:

1. Only temple-worthy LDS members can purchase endowments.
2. Once endowed, the commitment is there for life.
3. The LDS church is the only distributor of these garments (they cannot be made outside of the official LDS channels).
4. So financially, a person will not only have to give 10% of their income for tithing, but will also have to give money for the rest of their lives to pay for the garments (which used to range from $15/$30 set, and most people have at least a week’s worth, that last aboyt a year after weekly wear).

To give a comperable example, imagine that to be a faithful Catholic, after Confirmation and marriage, you had to have an interview with the priest once a year, guaranteeing that a true 10% of your income was being tithed to the church, plus you have to wear a brown scapular for the rest of your life. And the only place you could buy the scapular was the Catholic Cathedral Church. Oh, and if you stopped wearing it, it would not be that you would lose the blessings of grace, but you would be risking your immortal soul.

Let me give you a very real example of the consequences of this. My mother was LDS for her entire adult life. When she moved to Arkansas, her “ward” (local church) was over 30 minutes away, on winding roads that made her nervous to drive. She also has an issue with smoking and drinking coffee. Due to her Word of Wisdom violations, and her marginal activity in the church, she was not eligible for a temple recommend.

For 20+ years, every pair of panties, and every camisole, that she purchase was done through the LDS church. But once she was no longer eligible for the temple recommend, she had to go out and buy regular panties when her garments finally wore through and were no longer wearable.

She felt for a few years that she was sinning and doomed, and would not be with my father in the Celestial Kingdom because she could not wear her garments. She finally realized after prayer that she did not need to go to the Mormon church, and now attends the First Baptist Church of Van Buren - 5 minutes from her house.

I don’t begrudge giving money to a church, or buying sacramentals. But having to give a certain percentage with the consequence of sin, plus buying specific sacramentals through the church that have a definite shelf life (with no option of making your own, or buying them at a discount) really bothers me.

This isn’t true. You do not need to have a current temple recommend to buy temple garments. You must have them to purchase them the first time when you are to go received your endowment, but once you show in the church records as having received your endowment you can purchase new garments at any time. This may have happened to her but it is not the policy of the church.

I purchased some several months ago when I thought I was going to go back to church there. I haven’t had a recommend in years. I bought them online. Unless you’ve been excommunicated, once you are endowed you can buy for the rest of your life.

 

[flyonthewall]

Where in official Mormon teaching/literature does it state that Mormons have always believed that ALL churches have a portion of the truth? Was this a “new revelation”?

Joseph once said:

Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, &c, any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true “Mormons.” (HC, 5:517.)

Joseph Smith expounded upon his reservation with the creeds of traditional Christianity: “I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth; I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes, and say, 'Hitherto shalt though come, and no further;” which I cannot subscribe to".

John Taylor(3rd president of the church) stated:

“Although I was going to say I am not a Universalist, but I am, and I am also a Presbyterian, and a Roman Catholic, and a Methodist, in short, I believe in every true principle that is imbibed by any person or sect, and reject the false. If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it, I care not what shape it comes in to me, who brings it, or who believes in it, whether it is popular or unpopular. Truth, eternal truth, I wish to float in and enjoy”

Roberts made of point of noting that he did not believe that Nephi’s vision of the “great and abominable church” did not refer “to any one of the many divisions of Christendom.” (Roberts [1909], 3:264-5.) Likewise, in a 1906 Conference address, Roberts remarked that he had previously been asked if the Book of Mormon’s “church of the devil” referred to the Catholic Church.

“Well,” said I, in answer, “I would not like to take that position, because it would leave me with a lot of churches on my hands that I might not then be able to classify.” So far as the Catholic church is concerned, I believe that there is just as much truth, nay, personally I believe it has retained even more truth than other divisions of so-called Christendom; and there is just as much virtue, and I am sure there is more strength in the Roman Catholic church than there is in Protestant Christendom.

I would not like, therefore, to designate the Catholic church as the church of the devil. Neither would I like to designate any one or all of the various divisions and subdivisions of Protestant Christendom combined as such church; nor the Greek Catholic church; nor the Buddhist sects; nor the followers of Confucius; nor the followers of Mohammed; nor would I like to designate even the societies formed by deists and atheists as constituting the church of the devil. The Book of Mormon text ought to be read in connection with its context – with the chapter that precedes it and the remaining portions of the chapter in which it is found – then, I think, those who study it in that manner will be forced to the conclusion that the Prophet here has in mind no particular church, no particular division of Christendom, but he has in mind, as just stated, the whole empire of Satan; and perhaps the thought of the passage would be more nearly expressed if we use the term “the kingdom of evil” as constituting the church of the devil. (B. H. Roberts, Conference Report, April 1906, p.14, 15)

These are but a few statements made from the very beginning. There are many more, too numerous to cite them all.

 

[flyonthewall]

This is what i came up with

lifeafter.org/

After reading some of J. smiths beliefs you can clearly see he contradicts The Bible a whole lot.

Ah, yes…I suppose the best method to find out about the Catholic church is to go to a website by ex-Catholics…they, of course, will only state truths about the Catholic church.

 

[JeanMichel]

So when Catholics convert to Mormonism, you believe that God is guiding Catholics into converting into Mormonism to gain a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace?? I don’t understand. If the Catholic Church is the One True Church, why would God guide any Catholic to the Mormon church? Are you sure it is God that is doing the guiding here?

I believe that God knows his plan. Could God guide someone to convert to another religion? I don’t know except that all things are possible. What I believe is at the end there will be one faith and all those who follow Christ will unite together. At that point, there will be one Church. If they go, God will bring them back to the one Faith. I am willing to have hope and faith that God knows what he is doing and if, for some reason beyond our comprehension, he needs to use someone elsewhere to bring others to Chirst he will do so.

To our eyes it may seem that things are going wrong in the world or in the choices of others. However, I know that God’s will shall be done; he will overcome all things. I try to maintain a perspective that he is guiding those who seek to follow him at all times. All will come home. Even when it causes us pain, may we do his will and accept his will in the lives of others.

 

[Stavros]

This isn’t true. You do not need to have a current temple recommend to buy temple garments. You must have them to purchase them the first time when you are to go received your endowment, but once you show in the church records as having received your endowment you can purchase new garments at any time. This may have happened to her but it is not the policy of the church.

I purchased some several months ago when I thought I was going to go back to church there. I haven’t had a recommend in years. I bought them online. Unless you’ve been excommunicated, once you are endowed you can buy for the rest of your life.

The last time I tried to log in to get access to temple garments (before I became Catholic), it asked for your Temple Recommend number. As it did with my mother. I’m guessing that for the very reason stated above, the Church site changed their policy, as a quick check showed that the membership number was now all that was required. I do have that number on my last copy of ward records (which for some odd reason, I still keep in my Book of Rememberance along with all of my LDS ordinances), so I could log in if I needed to.

However, I stopped wearing my garments years ago, so it’s kind of a moot point. It’s odd how liberating not wearing garments can be. I can also understand how they do “protect” you however - wearing those while dating keeps one very chaste.

I do appreciate that clarification, though. While I am an ex-Mormon and a current practicing Catholic, I have always hated when people bring evidence against the church that is only partially true. To me it’s like when people say Catholics worship Mary or statues. Um, not quite. But it’s also very possible to say the absolute LDS.org party line answers straight from the mouths of prophets and church leaders to prove a point and still show the falseness of the religion.

 

[rainman10]

I believe that God knows his plan. Could God guide someone to convert to another religion? I don’t know except that all things are possible. What I believe is at the end there will be one faith and all those who follow Christ will unite together. At that point, there will be one Church. If they go, God will bring them back to the one Faith. I am willing to have hope and faith that God knows what he is doing and if, for some reason beyond our comprehension, he needs to use someone elsewhere to bring others to Chirst he will do so.

To our eyes it may seem that things are going wrong in the world or in the choices of others. However, I know that God’s will shall be done; he will overcome all things. I try to maintain a perspective that he is guiding those who seek to follow him at all times. All will come home. Even when it causes us pain, may we do his will and accept his will in the lives of others.

I believe that, because we have free will to choose between right and wrong, Satan takes advantage of that and tempts those who are weak, by telling them what they want to hear in order to lead them astray. Divide and conquer, that is what Satan is good at. As a result he leads those people away from the Catholic Church to other denominations. God can lead us back if we are willing to follow Him, but will not force anyone to come back to Him. I think God places opportunities in our way to lead us back to Him, but it is up to us to take advantage of those opportunities. I very well could be wrong, but that is my belief.

 

[JeanMichel]

I believe that, because we have free will to choose between right and wrong, Satan takes advantage of that and tempts those who are weak, by telling them what they want to hear in order to lead them astray. Divide and conquer, that is what Satan is good at. As a result he leads those people away from the Catholic Church to other denominations. God can lead us back if we are willing to follow Him, but will not force anyone to come back to Him. I think God places opportunities in our way to lead us back to Him, but it is up to us to take advantage of those opportunities. I very well could be wrong, but that is my belief.

No, I don’t think you are wrong. I agree with everything you have said. I am limiting my comments to those people who feel led by the Spirit to a specific action. I am not talking abaout people who do not attend Mass, confession, etc. For those that really feel led, it may be that God is trying to teach them something.

I think of the parable of the good Samaritan. He was the only one could recognize the immediate need. The others, chosen people, were busy doing their errands while ignoring the opportunity to serve right before them. God will guide us on a path and he will always bring us home.