What is antisemitism?

[OneSheep]

if I understand you correctly, you’re observing how black-and-white thinking, governed largely by the tribalism to which you alluded, appears to govern the Israeli-Palestinian question. If this is what you’re expressing, then I completely agree with you.

Well, I think we agreeing on the Israeli-Palestinian question, but that is not where I meant the question to be addressed.

What I am observing is that Judaism is far less dualistic in its theology, even nondualistic. Most Christians, for example, ascribe to a thinking that there is a battle between forces of good vs forces of evil. The nondualistic approach generally transcends the whole continuum, the whole metaphor, of a lineal way of looking at the source of all motives, drives, energy, desires, etc (i.e. black, white, and shades of gray). A nondualistic approach recognizes God in all that is, God in all energies, God in all humanity, all creation, the entirety of our human nature.

St Augustine came very close to reaching a nondualistic approach when he rejected Manichean thought. However, he got hung up in lingering self-resentment, and ended up embracing a less “black and white”, but still dualistic, theology.

If a person is seeing within himself an “evil source”, that view will be projected on others; people project their shadows. And then, it is very human to want to destroy or punish perceived evils.

So, what I am asking is “If it is true that Judaism ascribes to a nondualistic theology, wouldn’t it serve an effort to stop antisemitism if we Christians would be open to/embrace this nondualistic theology, this nondualistic model of the divine?”

Note: I’m not saying that we are not to admonish or work against injustice.

I’ll have to spend some more time formulating my own conceptual definition. It would somehow encompass a fear or hatred of Jewish people or their faith.

To me, it starts with resentment against the whole. If I were to resent an individual Jewish person, then I am called by the Gospel to forgive. For some reason, though, people miss the part that a whole ethnic/religious group is made of individuals. If I hold something against a group, then I am also called to forgive, to not “hold” the activities of a group against their dignity/value as people.

To me, then, if a person has any negative affect (negative feelings) toward Jewish people as a group, then that is antisemitism; it is a pre-judgment (prejudice, and coupled condemning feeling toward) another person or persons based solely on their belonging to a particular group. Whether this is ever manifested in discrimination, hostility, derogatory speech, etc. is important, but condemnation of these does not address the deeper issue, which is resentment.

Does that make sense to you?

 

[GKMotley]

It makes sense to some of the scholars of antisemitism I’ve read. Peter Hayes/WHY:EXPLAINING THE HOLOCAUST, p3 ."…antisemitism is the belief that Jews have common repellent and/or ruinous qualities that set them apart from non-Jews. Descent is determinative; individuality is illusory".

One might also note that such scholars do not necessarily include any/all criticism of the nation of Israel in the definition of antisemitism. Deborah Lipstadt/ANTISEMITISM HERE AND NOW is a good example.

My thanks to the board poster whose suggestions caused me to add these and other titles to my library.

 

[Psalms62]

Thank you for your reply! And yes, the article has some really good thoughts.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

“Was it immoral for them to give up their country”?
Indians didn’t have a country, and they weren’t a generic group, but the many Indian tribes did not give up their lands. They fought for them and lost.
“I think you are recognizing this as immoral”. I’m not sure what you mean by this.
Yes, let us shift to the modern context. Do you feel insecure/uncomfortable if there is a country, company, or club that is “too white” and think there needs to be less white people? By the way, why do you assume I’m white? Is it impossible for non-whites to believe that whites deserve their own homelands and countries? Do people have to be the same race as another to believe they have certain rights that should be protected?
“Based on your definition, then, could the person actually love and respect Jewish people, but still be labeled antisemitic”? Yes, anybody could be labeled anything. Saint Thomas Aquinas defined Love as willing the good of the other.
“Does that…or does it fall short”? That is the definition used by most people for antisemitism, so it seems to work just fine for them. I know the vagueness of “prejudice” is especially used by the mainstream. To me an anti-Semite is someone who hates Jews.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

“If a person disagreed with Catholicism, would it be charitable for him to say that the religion is false”? This is another meaningless concept, “charitable”. I do not care if it is “charitable” or not, I just care is the statement true or not? Is this what a person believes or not? In the case of calling Judaism a false religion, it is true and what I believe. If a Jew called Catholicism a false religion, which would seem to make sense, I would have no problem with it. I already know that’s what they believe, otherwise they would be Catholic. Can you explain to me why someone would be a Jew and believe Catholicism to be correct but not convert? Or why a Catholic would be convinced by Islam and not convert to become a Muslim? By accepting a religious position, you are clearly implying you believe that religious position to be true, otherwise, assuming you were sane, you would not hold those religious beliefs. Logically, any religion that makes exclusive claims necessarily is teaching that it is the only true religion and therefore the other religions are false. Most religions make exclusive claims: I know Christianity to be one of these and believe Judaism is one as well. The few religions that don’t make exclusive claims I know of are Bah’aism (probable misspelling) and I believe Buddhism and Hinduism as well, or at least some sects of it. So ultimately it comes down to this: If you believe Jesus Christ is God, Judaism is false. If you believe Jesus Christ is not God and the Old Covenant still stands, Christianity is false. If you believe Jesus Christ was a Prophet and that Muhammad was the last of the Prophets and received the Koran from God, then both Christianity and Judaism are false. If you believe there is no God, all religions are false. It’s just simple logic.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

If that is not “doing unto others as I would have them do unto me”, then a lot of Popes and Saints got it all wrong before Pope Francis (or at least this interpretation of what he said) came along. The Catholic Church is the exclusive Church of Christ, the True Church established by God and this has been the claim of the Church since its founding. Also, I wouldn’t spend to much time reading America Magazine (Fake News).

 

[gracepoole]

Most people labeled “anti-Semitic” do not fear or hate the Jewish people. If you actually listen to them, you would find they don’t:
Call for violence against Jews
Call Jews inferior or subhuman
Support the Holocaust
etc.

Evidence of this, please?

And what’s wrong with a hatred of Judaism? It’s a false religion, why should I love it?

Please identify the Catholic document(s) teaching this.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

The evidence is that they don’t believe or advocate those things. If you want to claim they do, you provide the evidence. What if I said you love the Holocaust and advocate violence against Jews and when you said you don’t I said “Evidence please”?
I never said a Catholic document teaches that.

 

[gracepoole]

The evidence is that they don’t believe or advocate those things. If you want to claim they do, you provide the evidence.

Sorry, that’s not how logic works. If you want to make a claim and you want others to agree with it, you must support it. You’ve suggested that most who are labeled antisemitic aren’t really antisemitic at all. It shouldn’t be hard for you to provide support of this position if it’s indeed valid.

I never said a Catholic document teaches that.

Then why should anyone here agree with your claim?

 

[DeoVindice1863]

I’m not the one making the claim, the ones making the claim are the ones who say they hold those beliefs. You prove that they hate Jews, and all the other stuff. You can’t just accuse someone of something then when they deny it say “you’re making a claim, you need to provide evidence”. It’s up to you to provide the evidence and who are you to tell someone else what they believe?
People don’t have to agree with me and I don’t care if they do or not. But I have to ask: If you don’t think Judaism is false, why are you Catholic and not Jewish?

 

[DeoVindice1863]

By the way what Catholic document says that most people labeled in Media as antisemites hate Jews and like the Holocaust? And if there is none then why should anybody believe you?

 

[gracepoole]

I’m not the one making the claim, the ones making the claim are the ones who say they hold those beliefs. You prove that they hate Jews, and all the other stuff.
People don’t have to agree with me and I don’t care if they do or not. But I have to ask: If you don’t think Judaism is false, why are you Catholic and not Jewish?

You’ve made an assumption that the “MSM” falsely labels people antisemitic and, in fact, most labeled with this title aren’t antisemitic. At present I’ve no idea how you’re able to identify what “most people labeled antisemitic” actually think since you’ve offered no evidence.

Does the person responsible for this count as antisemitic or has been mislabeled?

Spoiler

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Do the folks highlighted in this article count as antisemitic or have they been mislabeled?

Why France Is Losing the War on Anti-Semitism

It's coming from three very different sources. And it's extremely hard to combat online.

newrepublic.com

As for why I’m Catholic… I believe, as the Church teaches, that Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. It does not teach that Judaism is a “false religion.”

 

[DeoVindice1863]

If Christ is the fulfillment of the New Covenant, that means Judaism is false. Judaism denies the New Covenant and that Christ is God. I thought that was pretty basic knowledge about Judaism. So if Judaism is not a false religion, do you believe that Christ is not God? And do you also not believe it’s necessary to be baptized with a Trinitarian Formula? And do you believe both Christianity and Judaism are true? For the last question please make sure to answer yes or no so we can know without ambiguity.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

Lol using New Republic. But alright, I’ll count that and the picture. But I fail to see how that shows that most people labeled anti Semitic hate Jews? And you use the MSM (Lügenpresse/ Fake News) as a source, of course they’ll spin their agenda. Try actually listening to people themselves and reading them in their own words instead of going to Leftist MSM so they can tell you want other people think and say. And for all we know, it could be France’s refugee buddies who did that vandalism. Many Muslims dislike Israel and Jews. But I’m glad you found one picture. That definitely proves that most people labeled anti Semitic like the Holocaust because there’s at least one person who vandalized a building. I never realized that one person=most people. Now on the other hand, I saw how a previous poster mentioned names of Jews and you said a few names proved nothing. Now you seem to be contradicting that sentiment by saying one person proves something about most or all of a certain group.

 

[blackforest]

What I am observing is that Judaism is far less dualistic in its theology, even nondualistic.

Ah! I get what you were asking! I’m grossly unqualified to address the topic in any depth, but your thoughts on the matter are interesting.

Does that make sense to you?

I would agree that the Catholic calling to uphold the “dignity and worth of the human person” certainly applies in the aggregate, thereby condemning what our Church leaders have denounced as “the sin of racism.”

 

[DeoVindice1863]

Also, people labeled anti Semitic as well as many other labels applied by MSM such as “racist” or “Nazi” face vandalism, harassment and the very real threat of violence. Look at Richard Spencer, Martin Sellner, Lana Lokteff, Henrik Palmgren, Milo Yiannopoulos, and many others. They all have faced death threats. Many of them have actually been physically assaulted. And those are famous people. Think about all the no names who get beaten to a pulp by AntiFa, which should be classified as a terrorist Group based on their violent activities.

 

[meltzerboy2]

But according to your previous post, it is all right to hate the religion so long as you don’t hate those who practice that religion. Does this then mean that it is all right for a Jew or a Muslim to hate Christianity (which they believe is a false religion just as Christians believe Judaism and Islam are false religions)? And if this is so, then doing things against the religion, in this case Christianity, is fine provided you don’t behave in a violent way against the worshipers.

I do not accept your premise of hate the sin, love the sinner, because I do not believe that practicing a religion that one considers to be true is a sin. Apart from that, I think it disrespectful to hate anyone’s religion because this implicitly shows disrespect, if not dislike or even hatred, to those who believe in the truth of their religion.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

I’m glad you are able to read my mind and heart and tell me who I hate and dislike.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Your words speak for your heart and mind.

 

[DeoVindice1863]

Well when you’re talking to someone who tells you what you think and believe, the conversations not productive. Bye.