What is antisemitism?

[OneSheep]

Once again, you are walking a very fine line in my opinion.

Did I trigger your gut?

 

[tafan2]

You most certainly triggered a red flag. I understand what you are saying, but IMO, if I were you I would be much more careful in making certain statements. I really don’t want to continue with this discussion, because I do not have time to do it justice right now.

 

[OneSheep]

The solution to antisemitism is for the anti-Semites to forgive the Jews?

Yes, but not in those words. The question implies that “the Jews” are operating as an entire group, which is simply impossible. There may be in some cases some Jewish people involved in something that is resented by non-Jews, just as there may be non-Jews involved in something that is resented by Jewish people. Just as often (or more often!) there are, for example, non-Jews involved in something that non-Jews resent. In all of these cases, we are guided by the Gospel to forgive. All of these involve grievances.

No the solution is for them to abandon and renounce the stereotypes they hold against the jews!!! Once again, you are walking a very fine line in my opinion.

Well, I feel comfortable “walking a fine line” that supports the Gospel!

Some stereotypes, as you know, are harmless and simply reflect cultural differences. The stereotypes we need to pay attention to are those that attach some sort of negative (i.e. “they are lazy”) to a particular group. These negative attributes attached are projected from inside our own psyche.

It is true that Jesus tells us not to judge, which would give credence to the “abandon and renounce… stereotypes” you are suggesting. However, since judging (the feeling of resentment) comes from the gut, that judgment will continue to pop up, and is best is addressed through sincere understanding and forgiveness. Jesus could have said from the cross, “Father, do not judge them”, but instead He said “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”. When we come to realize that people do not know what they are doing when they sin, we find a very different way of looking at all people and all sin.

So yes, refraining from stereotyping (judging), encouraging (and even demanding) that others do so, may help, (at least a little!) as long as the encouragement is done in a non-judgmental way. For a more lasting solution, understanding and forgiveness are key.

 

[Psalms62]

That’s not exactly “sent back to their death.”

There was no certainty since the reports indicated Germany. "Whoever saves one life, it is written as if he has saved all humanity.’” How has it been prescribed or written, “we have ordained” it. > There is no commandment greater than these (Mk 12.31).

Love of neighbor necessarily follows from the love of God, and there can be no true love of God without it.

He who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in darkness still. He who loves his brother abides in the light and in him there is no cause of stumbling. He who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going for the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Based off of, "Love of Neighbor"

He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read it?”

He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.”

He said to him, “You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.”

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, “Who is my neighbor?”

Jesus replies with a story:

Jesus answered, “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’ Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?”

He said, “He who showed mercy on him.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
— Luke 10:30–37, World English Bible

 

[OneSheep]

Love of neighbor necessarily follows from the love of God, and there can be no true love of God without it.

He who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in darkness still. He who loves his brother abides in the light and in him there is no cause of stumbling. He who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going for the darkness has blinded his eyes.

I want to thank you for providing a link to that page, it was is a synopsis of so many readings that speak of the love of God, really beautifully put together!!!

So I think what is somewhat significant that Erika was responding to was the comment that turning away that boatload of refugees was “inexcusable”. We are hearing more often in our American society that someone will “never forgive” the other, or that some particular act was “inexcusable”.

I am practicing love of enemies that first involves forgiving one’s enemies. if “inexcusable” means hanging onto a grudge forever, how is this to be distinguished from resentment (holding something against someone) or hatred (which is a more intense resentment)? It is the grudge-holding that keeps us living in darkness. When we are truly ready and able to understand and forgive, and actually practice doing so, then we are back in the light, we come to a wholeness.

So yes, as awful as it was to turn away that boatload of refugees, we can come to understand and forgive those who turned them away, just as we can understand and forgive those in the US who would rather turn away refugees from Latin America. Of course, I am not advocating injustice or saying that we are to “let it go”.

One thing about that page that was a little bit contradictory was the reference to Jesus talking about “hating your family”. I think what He meant was in reference to the trapping of familial status; that to be truly free of the trappings of familial status we are to reject the name and position such status gives us and humbly join the “lowest” of the human family, to see, for example, the homeless and “unworthy” as our brothers and sisters. St Francis is an example of this. He did not hate his family; he disowned the status of his familial name.

 

[Psalms62]

Hi One Sheep,

I understand (very much so) Erika position. You can not turn a blind eye to either side or be incentive both are in need.

Do you remember the story of King Solomon and the two women that both claimed to be the mother of a child. The passage tells about the knowledge he was given by Divine origin. It was infallible.

With Daniel is the book of Susanna as the story opens with the appointment of two wicked elders as judges.
Susanna’s dire predicament is amplified by the fact that two witnesses partake in a well-established accusation: the writer is looking to Deuteronomy 19:15, which states that two witnesses are required to bring a defendant to court. The elders’ seemingly identical accusations and their position as valid witnesses seal Susanna’s fate; the court condemns her to death.

Both stories went before the courts. This is how intense it can become to make a ruling in a very difficult decision. Image how God listens ! And rules! It is enough to make some very bitter and become like stone. Our lord is encouraging us to turn to him during difficult times.

The saying “my yoke is easy and my burden is light” is part of a larger passage (Matthew 11:28–30), in which Jesus tells all who are weary and burdened to come to Him for rest.

This is a type of rest that is needed for all Christians who are struggling with their faith.

 

[Psalms62]

So yes, as awful as it was to turn away that boatload of refugees, we can come to understand and forgive those who turned them away, just as we can understand and forgive those in the US who would rather turn away refugees from Latin America. Of course, I am not advocating injustice or saying that we are to “let it go”

We have a responsibility to ourselves as we do for others. Forgiveness, like grief, is a process that we go through. If we don’t heal from it or find peace, peace is not the word I want to use, then we become tied to that event for as long as we do find some sort of reconciliation. We can be insensitive to others or even be a person whose bitterness refuses to be consoled. Those feeling will linger on and we become hard core-like stone.

You and I, as well as, others will help start the process to heal. When a wrong is done, you have to stand up and fight. However some wrongs or evils may need to be God the Almighty intervention and we may just be the builders to that. Prayer is the driver - just like the persistent woman who calls for justice, And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

I know the bitterness quite well and the anger but if I let those feeling take a hold of me then I am taking more of a chance of doing more damages.

“See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled” Hebrews 12

Do whatever you can to “lift up the spirit”! No one needs to be in that prison, so read scripture, go to church before the Holy Eucharist, listen to some good music or in some way connect back to God and tell Him that you need His strength so you don’t send yourself downward. You will need that faith and confidence in God’s grace. Remember, Jesus came as a mighty Savior ! However, as Jesus said “Abraham saw my day and rejoiced!” Abraham had to wait for a son to be born for a long time but he (like St Paul said ) had faith and it was added to him as righteousness! Since that time, we had to wait for the Messiah to be born from a woman named Mary and it was added to her as well for righteousness- for she had faith in God! Wait for the Lord, " Isaiah 40:31 -“but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.”

But, if I let God into the problem and rely on his help perhaps I will help in the direction it should head. This God knows where everything and everyone is (position wise) within the problem and so we turn to Him for guidance!!! Scripture reads from the book of Daniel 2, " He reveals deep and hidden things

and knows what is in the darkness,

for the light dwells with him.a

 

[OneSheep]

I know the bitterness quite well and the anger but if I let those feeling take a hold of me then I am taking more of a chance of doing more damages.

“See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled” Hebrews 12

Yes, antisemitism is a bitterness, a bitterness to be addressed through understanding and forgiveness.

The same is true for those who “hate the haters”. Are we bitter towards Nazis or those who have bitterness towards Jewish people, towards Muslim people, towards Christians? What I am seeing is that when certain groups sow resentment, people react; they have resentment towards those who sow it.

“But of course!”, we believe, “my own resentment towards those people is right, good, and understandable, while the bigotry of the Nazis (and everyone else) is irrational and ridiculous”. The observation can be made, however, that everyone sees their own bitterness as rational and right.

No bitterness is rational. When we are bitter, it is time to understand and forgive.

 

[Psalms62]

What was done in the past can be done again if you don’t monitor (in some capacity) those who are either moderate or extreme to this type of resentments. What was done in past towards a particular religious group of people whether they are Jewish, Muslim or Christian can and are resurfacing in certain countries, today. Forgiveness is difficult and the understanding toward these acts is not something a normal everyday person would be able to be educated on. The stirring of the pot (sort of speak) is when one group tries to cause others to be resentful toward another particular group or individual as to cause the hatred. This is beyond our understanding under the political sphere or in a social religious setting.

On a religious note, and on a personal one, is when one starts to doubt their own religious faith as to lead one to be frighten for their own family’s well fair. We can’t judge these ethnic groups (as a whole) even toward a particular religion because they can be Christian, Jewish or Muslim by facial identity as to put others at risk and opened to be victimized. There were many who are totally innocent although they are apart of the same ethic background but yet not associated with the religion but were victims of hatred. Again, these victims to crimes were not addressed legally. That can be said for any ethnic group from any country - you can not judge by appearance to cause others to retaliate against them. I’ve known of some who had verbally expressed hateful sentiment loudly enough publicly to make one feel uncomfortable in places where your family lives. This to me causes “much” fear and alarm! The first things on your mind is getting your family “out of” these places and into a place less harmful of these explosive remarks.

What causes these groups to resurface and to take control is phenomenal. Some interplay with the politics and the members of these social groups organize these type of problems and issues. It is not a matter of forgiveness but protecting those who are innocent. This is like a storm coming when you see the dark clouds forming.

 

[OneSheep]

I’ve known of some who had verbally expressed hateful sentiment loudly enough publicly to make one feel uncomfortable in places where your family lives. This to me causes “much” fear and alarm! The first things on your mind is getting your family “out of” these places and into a place less harmful of these explosive remarks.

Yes, and sometimes the hateful sentiments are expressed in louder voices than others. For example, the attack on Ilhan Omar this week, was it a loud expression of hatred, or a soft one? Was it not intended to incite resentment and condemnation? But you see, we can understand Murdoch & Co. and their intentions. They obviously see Omar as a threat, and believe that their insinuations are reasonable. Is it part of their religious ideology to understand and forgive, and to seek other means to promote what they want, which is protection and expansion of Israeli settlements?

The effort to maintain American support for Israel’s continued confiscation and expansion of land and resources is very difficult, because it is a matter of using all the tools the media and lobbyists can to keep Americans on the side of supporting injustice.

To be clear, the supporters of Israel’s expansion truly believe that their actions are just, and that position needs to be respected as sincere. However, there is a time for us to say “stop”, and put a halt to it, because the Palestinian people are suffering persecution.

The first things on your mind is getting your family “out of” these places and into a place less harmful of these explosive remarks.

Yes, I very much feel that way when our government talks about attacking Iran, condemning Israel’s enemies.

What causes these groups to resurface and to take control is phenomenal. Some interplay with the politics and the members of these social groups organize these type of problems and issues. It is not a matter of forgiveness but protecting those who are innocent.

The constant injustices performed by our own government continues to fuel the “resurfacing” of these groups. What we as Christians need to do is to forgive all injustice, but then to address and mitigate injustice with forgiving hearts.

Yes, it is very difficult to understand and forgive when things are out of control, but this is why it can be such a problematic loop! When we understand and forgive, we are already part of the solution, playing our part in getting things under control rather than escalating the problem, but we don’t really want to forgive!

When it is very hard to understand and forgive, I do some small thing, write a demanding letter to a congressman, whatever small thing I can do. Then, having some sense of having done something, I am more ready to forgive.

 

[Beryllos]

Now for something completely different, a story of racism, antisemitism, and redemption:

Graffiti punished by reading - 'It worked!' says prosecutor

Two-and-a-half years after five teenagers were sentenced by a court to read a list of books, all are still in education and none has reoffended.

www.bbc.com

“The community blew up. Understandably. But you know, some of the kids didn’t even know what a swastika meant. So I saw a learning opportunity. With children you can either punish or you can rehabilitate… I thought back to what taught me when I was their age, what opened my eyes to other cultures and religions… and it was reading.”

The judge in the case endorsed the prosecutor’s order – that the teenagers should be handed down a reading sentence. [Prosecutor] Alejandra Rueda drew up a list of 35 books and ordered the offenders to choose one title a month for a year and to write an assignment on each of the 12 books they chose.

 

[niceatheist]

Yes, to forgive those they hold anything against. If the Nazis had done this, we would not have had the holocaust. The Nazis had grievances. It doesn’t matter whether I think their grievances were valid or not; everyone thinks that their own grievances are valid. The important part is to understand and forgive, not to judge other people’s grievances.

I find this statement a little peculiar. First of all, the Nazis didn’t invent anti-Semitism. Beyond that, it went much further than simple grievances. The Nazis took advantage of the cultural fear and dislike of Jews as a means of creating a convenient scapegoat. “Why did we lose the war, well, because the Jews were working against us.” From there they could take 2,000 years worth of anti-Semitic claims and sentiment and spin it into a vast propaganda campaign.

The fundamental flaw lay in the peoples of Europe, who had, to one extent or another, persecuted Jews for centuries. The Nazis just found a way to engorge that latent anti-Semitism and raise it to a fever pitch.

And I think we can judge the alleged grievances of the Nazis, the German people, and wide swathes of Europe. After all, some of the most vitriolic anti-Semitism flowed out of Russia; Czarist Russia was intensely anti-Semitic (the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a Russian fabrication by the self-proclaimed mystic Sergei Nilus). There was a pretty deep running vein of anti-Semitism in France that came to a head with the Dreyfus Affair, which exposed anti-Semitism in the French Army. Emile Zola certainly felt justified in judging French anti-Semites in his famous letter J’Accuse, and I can find no fault with his sentiments or the general right of society to condemn those who persecute Jews or any other minority.

 

[OneSheep]

I find this statement a little peculiar. First of all, the Nazis didn’t invent anti-Semitism. Beyond that, it went much further than simple grievances. The Nazis took advantage of the cultural fear and dislike of Jews as a means of creating a convenient scapegoat. “Why did we lose the war, well, because the Jews were working against us.” From there they could take 2,000 years worth of anti-Semitic claims and sentiment and spin it into a vast propaganda campaign.

Looking for scapegoats begins with grievances, correct? Were there actually some “Jews working against them”? If so, was it real, or was it perception based on previous biases? Also, there were some actual personal grievances. Some people were out-competed in their fields, and when it was Jewish people who did so, they blamed Jewish people. The same happens today concerning Latinos and other immigrants in America. The native populace has a sense of entitlement, to some degree, and blames the “outsider”.

Take a look at the word “convenient” in your statement, does it give people the benefit of the doubt, or is it immediately pointing blame? There is more to the story that leads to understanding, not condemning or condoning.

Ask people of France, Germany, Israel, America: "Are you (as a people) entitled to your own land, without the influence or control of “those people”? The answer is going to be yes; it is our nature.

Grievances were always based on something very real, even if the reality became warped by illusion. We can point and say “that is invalid”, but that is also scapegoating, right?

The fundamental flaw lay in the peoples of Europe, who had, to one extent or another, persecuted Jews for centuries. The Nazis just found a way to engorge that latent anti-Semitism and raise it to a fever pitch

They persecuted because there was fear involved, and it did not help that there were some codes outlining how much Jews could participate in society with non-Jews. Of course, perhaps only a minority of them practiced this, but it was only a (loud) minority in Germany that scapegoated Jewish people. This is not “blaming”, it is simply an observation.

Overview: Attitudes Toward Non-Jews | My Jewish Learning

What have Jews thought about non-Jews at various points in history?

www.myjewishlearning.com

I think it behooves us to realize that the “anti” was not unidirectional. Jewish people are real people, just as capable of fear and prejudice as the rest of us. And they also had real grievances, as well as perceived ones (probably)!

 

[OneSheep]

The fundamental flaw lay in the peoples of Europe, who had, to one extent or another, persecuted Jews for centuries. The Nazis just found a way to engorge that latent anti-Semitism and raise it to a fever pitch.

The flaw is in part grounded in the very human desire for territory, including tribal territorial wants. To say that this flaw is found only in “the peoples of Europe” is also scapegoating, is it not? Can we all take ownership of our human nature?

And I think we can judge the alleged grievances of the Nazis, the German people, and wide swathes of Europe.

Well, we can look at them without judging, right? And when we look at them, we can come to understand why they had grievances without condoning or condemning those grievances. Understanding, then, is the door to forgiveness. “Forgive them, for they know not what they do”.
Whenever we demonize or condemn anyone, we do not know what we are doing.

What happened in pre-holocaust Europe was an escalation of reaction to immigration of a foreign people. The grievances were based on real occurrences, not made-up ones, but when we have a grievance toward someone, our mind automatically goes to demonizing and condemning. Do you recognize this same tendency in people around you? In yourself?

And then, if it sounds like I’m “making excuses for people”, take a hard look at that thought, that is a thought that blocks all desire and ability to understand people. It is a block that says “do not let go of blame, do not forgive”. We don’t want to let go of desire to condemn and punish. I’m speaking from a position of self-knowing.

Jesus calls anti-semitic, anti-anti-semitic, anti-Latino, anti-anti-Latino, anti-Muslim, anti-anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-any-group people to understand and forgive those who we hold a grievance against. But it doesn’t mean condoning actions or words that are hurtful. Do you see what I mean?

So, instead of judging, what I am advocating is what Jesus advocates, understanding and forgiving our enemies no matter who they are. Next, we are indeed called to actively address prejudice, persecution and injustice wherever they occur. But what does that “addressing” look like? If it looks like blame, it may work in the short term, but it does not get to the root issue.

 

[OneSheep]

Emile Zola certainly felt justified in judging French anti-Semites in his famous letter J’Accuse, and I can find no fault with his sentiments or the general right of society to condemn those who persecute Jews or any other minority.

Yes, he had the “right”, and it is well-intended. The intentions are to be lauded.

However, all justice, if it is merciful, must begin with forgiveness, not condemnation, or the cycle simply continues. Those who persecuted Jews started with condemnation of Jews. What I am saying is, let’s go after the condemnation, but go after it with understanding and forgiveness. We can challenge antisemitism and show that it is based on fear and territorial desires, desires for dominance and control, desires that we all have. Again, this is not making excuses or saying that we are not to actively address persecution, stop it in its tracks. What I am saying is that there is a time to compassionately listen to people’s grievances, much as we resist that listening. We are not called to abide by or agree with their grievances, but simply address those grievances with facts once we have listened in earnest. Maybe that has to occur once the persecutor is in prison.

 

[Sarcelle]

Now I am for rule of law as you can see from my previous posts on immigration.

However when you start tying race into this then we start straying into racism.

You mentioned the Americas as belonging to white people. So the Native Americans deserve to have their lands taken away from them by the white settlers? How about South Africa?

If certain races of people belonged in certain lands why did the Europeans colonize several African, American and Asian countries back in the day? How about the slave trade? Why didn’t they leave well enough alone?

 

[niceatheist]

Looking for scapegoats begins with grievances, correct? Were there actually some “Jews working against them”? If so, was it real, or was it perception based on previous biases? Also, there were some actual personal grievances. Some people were out-competed in their fields, and when it was Jewish people who did so, they blamed Jewish people. The same happens today concerning Latinos and other immigrants in America. The native populace has a sense of entitlement, to some degree, and blames the “outsider”.

Jews as a group were not working against Germany in WWI. The German Army had many Jews, and German Jews fought as bravely for Germany as British or French Jews fought for the Allies. There was no “Jewish conspiracy” to defeat Germany. If anything, Germany by and large defeated itself simply because its allies (Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire) were falling apart in the latter stages of the war. Even with Russia out of the picture, the extreme losses and deprivations of the war lead to revolution in Germany. It was the German people who rose up against the Kaiser’s regime. They needed no promoting for some mythical Jewish cabal.

Take a look at the word “convenient” in your statement, does it give people the benefit of the doubt, or is it immediately pointing blame? There is more to the story that leads to understanding, not condemning or condoning.

I think I’ve recounted the story in reasonable detail. The idea of a Jewish cabal ruling the world was a common one in the 19th and early 20th century, and the general distrust of Jews goes back to even before Christianity rose, and was a deep seated sentiment among Greeks in the eastern Mediterranean.

Ask people of France, Germany, Israel, America: "Are you (as a people) entitled to your own land, without the influence or control of “those people”? The answer is going to be yes; it is our nature.

Grievances were very real. We can point and say “that is invalid”, but that is also scapegoating, right?

But that wasn’t the claim being made. It wasn’t a nebulous “meddling” (as in the view today that Globalists are trying to rule the world). The claim was specific. Jewish interests had aligned themselves against Germany, and used their fantastical powers to achieve German defeat.

 

[niceatheist]

The fundamental flaw lay in the peoples of Europe, who had, to one extent or another, persecuted Jews for centuries. The Nazis just found a way to engorge that latent anti-Semitism and raise it to a fever pitch

They persecuted because there was fear involved, and it did not help that there were some codes outlining how much Jews could participate in society with non-Jews. Of course, perhaps only a minority of them practiced this, but it was only a (loud) minority in Germany that scapegoated Jewish people. This is not “blaming”, it is simply an observation.
Overview: Attitudes Toward Non-Jews | My Jewish Learning

The Jewish people in Europe had spent centuries being persecuted. By and large the reason they had become so insular was BECAUSE of the prejudice. In areas, like Moorish Spain, where Jews had relative freedom, there was little in the way of overt persecution. Jews in Medieval Muslim regions were generally far better treated, and thus far more free, than they were in Christian Europe.

I think it behooves us to realize that the “anti” was not unidirectional. Jewish people are real people, just as capable of fear and prejudice as the rest of us. And they also had real grievances, as well as perceived ones (probably)!

I think this looks suspiciously like blaming the victim.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

Emile Zola certainly felt justified in judging French anti-Semites in his famous letter J’Accuse, and I can find no fault with his sentiments or the general right of society to condemn those who persecute Jews or any other minority.

Yes, he had the “right”, and it is well-intended. The intentions are to be lauded.

However, all justice, if it is merciful, must begin with forgiveness, not condemnation, or the cycle simply continues. Those who persecuted Jews started with condemnation of Jews. What I am saying is, let’s go after the condemnation, but go after it with understanding and forgiveness. We can challenge antisemitism and show that it is based on fear and territorial desires, desires for dominance and control, desires that we all have. Again, this is not making excuses or saying that we are not to actively address persecution, stop it in its tracks. What I am saying is that there is a time to compassionately listen to people’s grievances, much as we resist that listening. We are not called to abide by or agree with their grievances, but simply address those grievances with facts once we have listened in earnest. Maybe that has to occur once the persecutor is in prison.

Zola’s intentions were to draw France’s attention to the bigotry in the French government and army, to seek an end to unjustified persecution of loyal French Jews, because of absurd beliefs that Jews in France represented some dark fifth column out to destroy the French Republic. Dreyfus was a loyal French citizen and soldier who never did anything wrong, and was sent to prison, indeed one of the most notorious prisons of the period, because of unjustified bigotry.

There’s no mystery to anti-Semitism. It started even before the birth of Christ, probably in the Seleucid Empire, and even by the time of the riots in Alexandria, the seeds of the “disloyal jews” was an active meme. The saddest part of the Holocaust was simply how predictable it was. If Ferdinand and Isabella had had access to Zyklon B, the Reconquista would probably have been the first Holocaust.

 

[OneSheep]

Jews as a group were not working against Germany in WWI. The German Army had many Jews, and German Jews fought as bravely for Germany as British or French Jews fought for the Allies. There was no “Jewish conspiracy” to defeat Germany. If anything, Germany by and large defeated itself simply because its allies were falling apart in the latter stages of the war. … It was the German people who rose up against the Kaiser’s regime. They needed no promoting for some mythical Jewish cabal.

I agree with everything there, and the “German people rising up” give some credence to the idea that those who wished to condemn Jews were projecting their own shadows. It is true also that there were some Jewish people who had some (a lot) of banking power, and when someone has power but does not use it in ways that they think would be in one’s favor, then there is resentment, especially when those powers are in the “outgroup”.

Grievances can be based on a lot of perception, even if there are kernals of truth. When a negative is projected, they do not know what they are doing.

But that wasn’t the claim being made. It wasn’t a nebulous “meddling” (as in the view today that Globalists are trying to rule the world). The claim was specific. Jewish interests had aligned themselves against Germany, and used their fantastical powers to achieve German defeat.

Well, there are people who want to “rule the world” in the sense that we all want to be in control of world destiny and dominate. Do we condemn those who have the wealth to actually carry out some control, or do we understand them? Large corporations, for example, have a lot of sway in the world, as do those who control central banks. Are those bankers and corporation owners people just like you and I? Yes, absolutely. Does that mean they are of mal-intent? That would be a matter of projection, right?

When people point their fingers and blame, they do not know what they are doing.

The Jewish people in Europe had spent centuries being persecuted. By and large the reason they had become so insular was BECAUSE of the prejudice.

That’s not what the website said, but indeed, they had to become more insular when the resentment became more tangible.

In areas, like Moorish Spain, where Jews had relative freedom, there was little in the way of overt persecution. Jews in Medieval Muslim regions were generally far better treated, and thus far more free, than they were in Christian Europe.

Are you “building a case” against Europeans? Christians? If so, why?

I think this looks suspiciously like blaming the victim.

Are you projecting an underlying motive? Something negative? If so, can you see that this is exactly what those European populations did? What people do when they talk about “international bankers”?