What is Christ's Church?

[KathleenElsie]

Hi,

Yes that helped I completely understand what you are saying. There are many churches out there like. Even the catholic churches in my area are like that. It is probably because I live in an area that has been coined as not friendly. We’re not all like that though:thumbsup: There are some nice people

That is why when I visited my church 3 years ago I just loved that they had all these community activities. We have just expanded our building and beside the fact that we were growing as a congregation, the other purpose was to expand on reaching out to the community. When people ask me what church I go to and I tell them, they are like" Oh is that the church that has---------"

I guess it probably depends on who is willinging to step up and volunteer and run ministries. I recently stepped up to become the coordinator of the homeless ministry within our church. That is the other thing I like about my church family is that almost everyone in the church is involved in some ministry. You know how you get the same 20% that does all the work. I have to say that doesnt happen here.

The goal of our church is to Spread the Good News and with the help of God we are able to do it pretty well, especially among the youth.

I would ask what does your home church do in the community that does not include evangelization as the direct goal? Day care, medical services, food bank, counseling services, clothing distribution etc is all doing Gods work and is a part and parcel of spreading the “Good News”. Going from door to door asking if someone is “saved” can be a very empty ministry if that is all that is done.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I would ask what does your home church do in the community that does not include evangelization as the direct goal? Day care, medical services, food bank, counseling services, clothing distribution etc is all doing Gods work and is a part and parcel of spreading the “Good News”. Going from door to door asking if someone is “saved” can be a very empty ministry if that is all that is done.

Hi,
Our church does all those things except medical services. We dont go door to door. We have a Mall evangalizing Ministry.
We dont go around asking someone if they are saved(I think that may be a generalization on your part ) On the other hand, don t you feel it is important to Spread the Good News as often and to as many people as possible? They may not receive it but at least they heard it. We certainly dont cram it down anyones throat. Spreading the Word of God can also and is also being done by reaching out to the needy.

The missionaries we support not only go to other countries to spread the Word of God, they also help them medically and build homes for them and bring them food. I think the two go hand in hand. Im sure you agree:thumbsup:

 

[KathleenElsie]

Hi,
Our church does all those things except medical services. We dont go door to door. We have a Mall evangalizing Ministry. I go to the Mall to shop not to be challanged on my beliefs.
We dont go around asking someone if they are saved(I think that may be a generalization on your part ) I wish it was a generalization on my part. Having lived in the “Bible Belt” and being Catholic it was asked almost daily. Oh I wear a Crusifix and carry a Rosary. Also even where we live we get door to door “evangilists” that will ask my children and us if we know the “good news” and are “saved”. There are only seven houses on our two mile long road. One of which is not Catholic. On the other hand, don t you feel it is important to Spread the Good News as often and to as many people as possible? Yes but not hit and run. IMHO you invite them to church then give them the Good News" They may not receive it but at least they heard it. Then do you become responsible for them since they have now heard but not believed? We certainly dont cram it down anyones throat. Spreading the Word of God can also and is also being done by reaching out to the needy.

The missionaries we support not only go to other countries to spread the Word of God, they also help them medically and build homes for them and bring them food. I think the two go hand in hand. Im sure you agree:thumbsup: Yes I do but they should never be seperated. They are all part of the one way to heaven and will show in those the have the hope of Salvation

 

[ALLFORHIM]

KathleenElsie:
Hi,
It occurs to me that you have had some bad experiences with evangelical type people. I am truly sorry that they have somehow offended you.

It also seems that our conversation has turned into who’s church is better and that is just silly and I aologize for doing that as well.

All churches should be equally responsable for the needy. I think all churches(at some level) do help the needy.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I am also sorry if I give you the impression that I was comparing churches. I try not to do so and will try to make a better effort in this.

But, yes I have had some very bad experiences with members of smaller congregations telling me how I will be going to H*** because I am Catholic and not a Christian.

One thing that I have found is that the Catholic Church is inclusive of many being in heaven and not just one small church on the corner of any town. The Catholic church says that we will be judged by what we have been taught no matter if we are Jew or Gentile. So I believe that this teaching is what our Lord Jesus Christ meant when he Created the Catholic Church with the intentions of being the one true Church of God.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

 

[Love4Nature]

This is incorrect.

From Dominus Iesus:

1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.60

On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.62 Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.63

“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection — divided, yet in some way one — of Churches and ecclesial communities; nor are they free to hold that today the Church of Christ nowhere really exists, and must be considered only as a goal which all Churches and ecclesial communities must strive to reach”.64 In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.65 “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

After Vatican II, the Bastions of the Church was demolished. What preciely are the bastions that, in the view of “reformers” must be demolished?

Let us recall what Pius XII accurately predicted in his inspired comments about the coming crisis in the Church.

“I am worried by the Blessed Virgins’s message to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her Liturgy, Her Theology, and Her Soul… I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject her ornments and make her feel remorse for her historical past”

Pius XII identified three elements of the Church that the “innovators” wished to alter: her liturgy, her theology and her soul (i.e. her very nature).Notice that Pius XII, basing himself on the Fatima Message, as well as what he had witnessed personally in the Church at that time, spoke of a coming attempt to dismantle, destory and reject these things in the Church. In other words, the “demolition of bastions”.

The 3rd Message of Fatima must have warned about a crises within the Church itself. Has the Church represents a kind of “Salinization of the Roman Catholic Church” that bears an eerie resemblance to what was called “the Adaptation” of Russian Orthodoxy to the demands of Stalinist regime after the Vatica II Council?

matt

 

[KathleenElsie]

Welcome
Love4Nature

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae;1833915:

Hi,

Im sure your right but I just wanted to know where you got the info. What is your source?

Scripture. He was going to their houses (meaning that he had their addresses) and getting out the ones who were Christians (meaning he had their names) and taking them away.

He wasn’t watching from a distance and catching them praying or catching them going to Church - he already knew who they were, before he ever laid eyes on them. Remember that Cornelius didnt’ know what he looked like, and nor did Paul know what Cornelius looked like, but Paul had been planning to go to his house and drag him away - meaning that ahead of time, he had his name and his address, in order to be able to do that without ever having seen him or met him before.

The visible church was all who believed in Jesus Christ and back then they stood out like a sore thumb.

They were hiding in the catacombs; their own lifelong neighbors and family members didn’t know who they were. How would a complete stranger who had never seen them before know that they were Christians - unless he somehow had access to their membership records?

Meaning that, back then, at least, one was identified as a Christian not only in a spiritual way, but also because of actual membership in an actual organization.

 

[jmcrae]

Saul wrote to the Ecclesia which means “gathering of the called out ones” in each town, read it in that context and you lose the building structure.

I am not talking about a building. I don’t think anyone here is talking about a building. We are talking about a structured organization that was set up by Jesus with the Apostles.

Jesus put Peter in charge of it. In Matthew 16:18, He gave him the name Peter (which means, “a rock”) and He gave him the “keys” (a reference to the keys to the rooms of the castle in the Davidic kingdom; Jesus quotes from Isaiah 22:22 to make it clear to Peter and to us what He is talking about here, and then in John 21:15-19, after ensuring that he is worthy (or rather, making him worthy), Jesus sets Peter in charge of the whole Church. (If the Church is not a visible organization, then what, exactly, is Jesus telling Peter to be in charge of, in this passage?)

 

[mrs_abbott]

All churches should be equally responsable for the needy. I think all churches(at some level) do help the needy.

Most definitely!
Jesus even tells us in Scripture that “whoever does this for the least of my people, does it for me”.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Christ did not create confusion with many denominations but unity with ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH.:yup:

Catholic means universal though so we are all members of Christ’s Church.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Scripture. He was going to their houses (meaning that he had their addresses) and getting out the ones who were Christians (meaning he had their names) and taking them away.

Hi,
Could you possibly point me to where this is in Scripture.

I dont just want to take your word for it thats all.

Thank you:thumbsup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Every one must go through the Son to get to the Father, and eveyone must go to the Church to get to the True Son.

Actually you cant be part of Christs church until you believe and have accepted Him, then you become part of Christ’s Church.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Catholic means universal though so we are all members of Christ’s Church.

I like to think of it as we are all parts of the unity of beliefs.

But, again I ask did Christ bring confusion into the world :nope: (IMHO NO) or did he unify us in one Holy Catholic Church? :yup: I believe it is in One Holy Catholic Church and men have split off the thousands of smaller denominations bringing discord to the world.

The bible does not say anything of an invisable unity. But, speaks of a church with pillers and brick. That stands on one rock not gravel or shifting sand.

 

[KathleenElsie]

ALL FOR HIM: Actually you cant be part of Christs church until you believe and have accepted Him, then you become part of Christ’s Church.

Where does that leave aborted babies, people born with limited ability to understand, the mentally ill? Those that never had the chance to hear the “GOOD NEWS” are they all lost without hope?

I believe that the decision is Gods alone as to whom will be in Heaven with him. Jesus gave Peter the power to loose and bind. But not to judge. God the Father has that position as judge. God is just and man is judgmental.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

KathleenElsie:

Where does that leave aborted babies, people born with limited ability to understand, the mentally ill? Those that never had the chance to hear the “GOOD NEWS” are they all lost without hope?

Oh never! God has mercy and love for those who, by no fault of their own, never knew Him. He judges us all by how much we know and how we use that knowledge in our daily lives to serve Him.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I like to think of it as we are all parts of the unity of beliefs.

But, again I ask did Christ bring confusion into the world :nope: (IMHO NO) or did he unify us in one Holy Catholic Church? :yup: I believe it is in One Holy Catholic Church and men have split off the thousands of smaller denominations bringing discord to the world.

The bible does not say anything of an invisable unity. But, speaks of a church with pillers and brick. That stands on one rock not gravel or shifting sand.

The word “church” is not clearly defined enough to mean building. As long as you have a gathering of believers worshipping God, that is a church.
No, God didn’t bring confusion in the world. Man did with all their “ideas”.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I like to think of it as we are all parts of the unity of beliefs.

Amen Sister

.

But, speaks of a church with pillers and brick. That stands on one rock

The rock you are talking about is not a building it is the truth of who Jesus is and what He did for us.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

All For Him:

Apology accepted and one apology offered. I was not perfectly clear as to those statements not supporting your statement.
I know where in scripture it speaks of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and I believe it with all my heart. As far as that goes there is no debate.
I want to know where in scripture it says specifically that the Holy Ghost cannot dwell in "The Church’.
What I am referring to is the second part of your statement: namely that the Holy Ghost cannot indwell an “Institution”. (again, this is your word, not mine, I don’t think of the Church as institutional; but rather, Communional (is that a word?)).
None of the passages you cited support this belief.

Hi,

As I have researched this topic of what you ask of me I have discovered I am not the one to teach it to you. As I was studying the Holy Spirit guiding the Church I found it to be more involved then I think I can handle. I would say that Apophasis or Bibleapologist would do a much better job at explaining the bible then I. I feel that I just cant give you an adequate answer. I have only been studying the bible for 3 years and Church=body of believers(which I 100% believe)is not a doctrine I have studied out enough to give you an answer you deserve. I know and accept my limitations. Im sorry I have let you down