What is Christ's Church?

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes, but my point is that this is a doctrine of the ECFs - we don’t find it explicitly in the Scriptures. I know why I believe it, but if you are going to reject the ECFs and their “man-made doctrines,” then you need to reject them totally.

Either that, or if you are going to believe them on this, then you should also believe the rest of their teachings, including that “confess your sins” means to go to a priest and actually reveal them, and that “accepting your Saviour” means physically accepting Him into your body at Mass, as well as spiritually into your soul.

Hey,
The ECF are human so it is possible for them to be right on some issues and wrong on others. IMHO I believe the only reason you are saying it has to be all or nothing is because that is what the CC teaches you about the CC.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Nope I never said my denom was the ONE TRUE CHURCH, just that it is close to my house. If Jesus wanted me to take Him to His church I would ask Him where do you want me to take you.

He would guide you to Rome, Sweet Home!

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hey,
The ECF are human so it is possible for them to be right on some issues and wrong on others.

Same with you right? Can you be wrong in some areas? Who do you think had a better idea of what Christ taught, you or the direct discples of the Apostles?

I would venture to guess them.

 

[jmcrae]

Hey,
The ECF are human so it is possible for them to be right on some issues and wrong on others. IMHO I believe the only reason you are saying it has to be all or nothing is because that is what the CC teaches you about the CC.

Well, the only basis I would have for disagreeing with them is my own personal opinion, which is way more likely to be wrong than the ECFs, who sat in Jesus’ lap and sucked their thumbs while He gave them His personal blessing, and then they grew up hanging around with Jesus and the Apostles, had the Apostles as their Junior and Senior High School teachers, and were trained up in the ways of the Church right from the word “go.”

Like I said before, if they got it wrong, then what hope do we have?

 

[MrS]

Hi,
Well since the body of believers are scattered all over the world I would take Him to my church since it is right down the road . But I think if Jesus came to me and said that I might drop dead first of pure awe.

I really felt that would be your answer,

However, the question involved His request to go to the One HE founded and made promises to…

.

 

[MrS]

Nope I never said my denom was the ONE TRUE CHURCH, just that it is close to my house. If Jesus wanted me to take Him to His church I would ask Him where do you want me to take you.

you have just taken one more step toward the Catholic Church…//

God bless you

.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Same with you right? Can you be wrong in some areas? Who do you think had a better idea of what Christ taught, you or the direct discples of the Apostles?

I would venture to guess them.

Yep I most certainly can be wrong. Well I think the apostles taught everything exactly right. It is man’s intrepretations that are incorrect. One of us is wrong. I think it is you you think it is me so I say we both keep on learning and following God and hopefully(although I think we will)see each other in heaven.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

He would guide you to Rome, Sweet Home!

Hi,

Maybe maybe not

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I really felt that would be your answer,

However, the question involved His request to go to the One HE founded and made promises to…

.

I guess Im turning out to be predictable HUH

 

[Philthy]

Salvation by Grace thru Faith in the substitutionary atonement is the ONLY REAL essential.

There are some very fundamental problems with this statement. It contradicts other statements in Scripture such as:

“If you do not forgive the trespasses of others, neither will your father in Heaven forgive you”
He saved us by the bath of rebirth
“…Drunkards, adulterers, murderers, homosexuals will not inherit” (eternal life)
“Each will be judged according to his deeds”

I could go on and on, but the point is that once you factor these other UNEQUIVOCAL statements regarding salvation into the equation, one is forced to conclude that the definition of faith in your original sentence has to include a variety of things not conceded by some Protestants. For example, do you consider forgiving others a part of the faith that mentioned in your “essential”? Baptism (bath of rebirth)? How about performing deeds worthy of a just judgement? How about being free of the sins of adultery, murder, etc etc? Is that your version of faith? If so, then the list of essentials needs to be a little clearer than what you have reduced it to.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Yep I most certainly can be wrong. Well I think the apostles taught everything exactly right. It is man’s intrepretations that are incorrect. One of us is wrong. I think it is you you think it is me so I say we both keep on learning and following God and hopefully(although I think we will)see each other in heaven.

You forgot to answer the third question: **Who do you think had a better idea of what Christ taught, you or the direct discples of the Apostles?
**

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You forgot to answer the third question: Who do you think had a better idea of what Christ taught, you or the direct discples of the Apostles?

Hi,
Well I would like to say the direct disciples of the Apostles but they are human as well and they are flawed as well. There were heresies trying to get into the churches even while the Apostles were teaching so after they died who knows what stuck and what didnt and at what time within the church. Unfortunately there has never been a perfect church since Pentacost because heresies have made their way into the churches since day one.
The only perfect church is the spiritual one who is made up of the body of believers and honestly we do not and will not know who they are until heaven.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
Well I would like to say the direct disciples of the Apostles but they are human as well and they are flawed as well. There were heresies trying to get into the churches even while the Apostles were teaching so after they died who knows what stuck and what didnt and at what time within the church. Unfortunately there has never been a perfect church since Pentacost because heresies have made their way into the churches since day one.
The only perfect church is the spiritual one who is made up of the body of believers and honestly we do not and will not know who they are until heaven.

So, in the mean time:

A) We just go with whichever Heresy is easiest to live with, since we can have no way of ever knowing the Truth, and God won’t mind; He understands - He’s the one that took it away, two seconds after giving the Holy Spirit to the Catholic Church at Pentecost, and said, “HA HA, I said I would give you the Holy Spirit, but I lied about that ‘until the end of time’ thing - so long, suckas, you on yo’ own, now!!” or

B) The Holy Spirit speaks to AllForHim and teaches her what is right, whilst leaving everyone who disagrees with her (even though they also think that they have the Holy Spirit, too) totally in the dark, because AllForHim is, in fact, the Pope - unbeknownst to the rest of the world, and even to herself.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So, in the mean time:

A) We just go with whichever Heresy is easiest to live with, since we can have no way of ever knowing the Truth, and God won’t mind; He understands - He’s the one that took it away, two seconds after giving the Holy Spirit to the Catholic Church at Pentecost, and said, “HA HA, I said I would give you the Holy Spirit, but I lied about that ‘until the end of time’ thing - so long, suckas, you on yo’ own, now!!” or

YES YOU MUST ALL LISTEN TO ME NOW!!

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hi,
Well I would like to say the direct disciples of the Apostles…

So, you believe that the direct disciples of the Apostles - the ones who learned from the very mouths of the Apostles themselves - would know better than you? Then why do you disagree with them? (Some of them being: Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin, etc.)

 

[E.E.N.S]

Nope just go with the bible:thumbsup: The HS was promised to those who beleive in Christ and His redemptive work on the cross.

YES YOU MUST ALL LISTEN TO ME NOW!!

Can you show me, in the Bible, where it says we are to refer to the Bible? ~I can show you where, in the Bible, it says that were are to look to the Church (because the Church, not the Bible, is the “pillar and foundation of truth.”)

Also, where, in the Bible, does it promise the Holy Spirit as a guide to the individual?

I am just curious, because you say “just look to the Bible” but I cannot find these things in there anywhere.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So, you believe that the direct disciples of the Apostles - the ones who learned from the very mouths of the Apostles themselves - would know better than you? Then why do you disagree with them? (Some of them being: Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin, etc.)

Hi,

I dont disagree with all of them. I have not read all of their work. Honestly more then I can handle at this moment in my life. Anyway, from what I have read I do agree with some of them actually if not most of what they say.

I have read the Didache and there isnt anything in there I disagree with. As far as the disciples of the Apostles knowing more then me. At this point they probably did because I have only been studying the bible for 3 years. Give me some more time and Im sure I can catch up. It might take a lifetime. The bible was given to anyone who wants to read, study it and hopefully believe what it says. God gave us a brain and expects us to use it to study His Word. The disciples of the Apostles did not have exclusive rights to the bible. After all, catholics are allowed to read it and study it. Suprisingly, some catholics when they start to read and study the bible end up leaving the CC. I have always found that fascinating when a catholic tells me that is why they left the CC. I ask them why would reading the bible make you want to leave the CC and there answers have consistently been—the CC teaches differently then the bible(Disclaimer----That is there comments not mine).

I just dont put as much stock into the ECF as you do because they were men intrepreting just as you and I do. That does not mean they didnt get some things right because they did.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Can you show me, in the Bible, where it says we are to refer to the Bible? ~I can show you where, in the Bible, it says that were are to look to the Church (because the Church, not the Bible, is the “pillar and foundation of truth.”)

Also, where, in the Bible, does it promise the Holy Spirit as a guide to the individual?

I am just curious, because you say “just look to the Bible” but I cannot find these things in there anywhere.

Hi,

I can show you I just dont have the time to look it all up and write it down. If you look in the back of your bible for index to notes or index to subjects under the HS–there is much Scripture. There is much in John, Ephesians, Galations, Daniel, Both books of Corinthians, Acts, Psalms, Phillipians. Romans, Thessolonians. If you have not found the answer I will try to do this for you at some point Im just going to be busy this weekend.

 

[Sixtus]

The Church is indeed the Body of Christ–it is also the “Bride of Christ”, the “New Jerusalem”,

 

[MrS]

Hi,

I can show you I just dont have the time to look it all up and write it down. If you look in the back of your bible for index to notes or index to subjects under the HS–there is much Scripture. There is much in John, Ephesians, Galations, Daniel, Both books of Corinthians, Acts, Psalms, Phillipians. Romans, Thessolonians. If you have not found the answer I will try to do this for you at some point Im just going to be busy this weekend.

all those NT references are to advise one to look at the OT… the NT was not formed yet.

But none of them imply any self interpretation…