What is Christ's Church?

[ALLFORHIM]

all those NT references are to advise one to look at the OT… the NT was not formed yet.

But none of them imply any self interpretation…

Hi,
She just wanted to know where in Scriptures it talks about the HS indwelling in each individual person.

 

[jmcrae]

Nope just go with the bible The HS was promised to those who beleive in Christ and His redemptive work on the cross.

And now we are back to the problem of which Bible believers are right, and which ones are wrong, since they all claim to be enlightened by the Holy Spirit, yet they contradict each other on some very important issues - issues that, if we get it wrong, we end up in Hell, or someone we love ends up in Hell.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hi,

I dont disagree with all of them. I have not read all of their work. Honestly more then I can handle at this moment in my life. Anyway, from what I have read I do agree with some of them actually if not most of what they say.

**Which one’s do you agree with? Names please.

I have read the Didache and there isnt anything in there I disagree with. As far as the disciples of the Apostles knowing more then me. At this point they probably did because I have only been studying the bible for 3 years. Give me some more time and Im sure I can catch up. It might take a lifetime. The bible was given to anyone who wants to read, study it and hopefully believe what it says. God gave us a brain and expects us to use it to study His Word. **(**Funny, atheists give a similar response to argue against the BIble.)**The disciples of the Apostles did not have exclusive rights to the bible. **(The disciples of the Apostles didn’t have a “Bible” In fact the “Bible” came about 10 GENERATIONS after the Apostles.) After all, catholics are allowed to read it and study it. Suprisingly, some catholics when they start to read and study the bible end up leaving the CC. I have always found that fascinating when a catholic tells me that is why they left the CC. I ask them why would reading the bible make you want to leave the CC and there answers have consistently been—the CC teaches differently then the bible(Disclaimer----That is there comments not mine). **(Funny, studying the Bible is how many of us convert TO the Catholic Faith - including myself. Most the time when a Catholic becomes protestant it is because they found something they like better, not usually because they felt compelled to follow the truth. But I digress.)

I just dont put as much stock into the ECF as you do because they were men intrepreting just as you and I do. That does not mean they didnt get some things right because they did. **(Many of them had no need to interpret as you or I do - they were there with the Apostles. Interesting enough, whether they were there with the Apostles or shortly after, they held the Catholic Faith - in opposition to much of what you believe today.)

 

[E.E.N.S]

Hi,

I can show you I just dont have the time to look it all up and write it down. If you look in the back of your bible for index to notes or index to subjects under the HS–there is much Scripture. There is much in John, Ephesians, Galations, Daniel, Both books of Corinthians, Acts, Psalms, Phillipians. Romans, Thessolonians. If you have not found the answer I will try to do this for you at some point Im just going to be busy this weekend.

Please site an actual verse. (You won’t find one.)

Hi,
She just wanted to know where in Scriptures it talks about the HS indwelling in each individual person.

I am a he.

 

[E.E.N.S]

all those NT references are to advise one to look at the OT… the NT was not formed yet.

But none of them imply any self interpretation…

Correct, not only do they not imply self interpretation, but they explicitly say otherwise:

2 Peter 1:20
Understanding this first that no prophecy of scripture in made by private interpretation.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Please site an actual verse. (You won’t find one.)

Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

And read the book of Daniel, especially chapters 4 and 5.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

And read the book of Daniel, especially chapters 4 and 5.

Please give me an exegesis of this and how it condones the private interpretation of Scripture. (Especially in the light of 2 Peter 1:20)

 

[jmcrae]

Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

“me” is King David - not hoi palloi such as you and me. King David received God’s Spirit in order to rule the people of God; not for his own personal benefit.

And read the book of Daniel, especially chapters 4 and 5.

Again, for the salvation of the people of God, and not for Daniel’s own personal benefit. Daniel was not just some guy that came along at random; he was a member of the court of the king.

PS: My father put it rather crudely one time, but I think very accurately - “God chooses men who know their way around city hall; not random village idiots.”

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Please give me an exegesis of this and how it condones the private interpretation of Scripture. (Especially in the light of 2 Peter 1:20)

Don’t know what that “e” word means. I’m simple so use simple words if you want me to understand.
We are encouraged to interpret scripture, under the guidance of the HS, for “study and reproof”, as evident in 2Timothy16-17. Hasn’t this been said a million times before?
2 Peter 1:20 says that not just anyone can interpret scripture to his/her liking. Since the HS guided its writing, the HS must also guide its interpretation.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

“me” is King David - not hoi palloi such as you and me. King David received God’s Spirit in order to rule the people of God; not for his own personal benefit.

Again, for the salvation of the people of God, and not for Daniel’s own personal benefit. Daniel was not just some guy that came along at random; he was a member of the court of the king.

PS: My father put it rather crudely one time, but I think very accurately - “God chooses men who know their way around city hall; not random village idiots.”

So you’re saying the scriptures weren’t written for us???

 

[jmcrae]

So you’re saying the scriptures weren’t written for us???

They were written to let us know what happened then, and what their relationship with God was like back then, if that’s what you mean.

But we have to read them in context, and realize who the writer was (who “me” is) and to whom he was writing - “you” is not the modern day reader; it’s the original audience - in some cases “you” refers to God Himself; other times, it’s referring to priests and scribes of the Temple, or else the King, or members of his court, or Bishops, priests, deacons and lay leaders (teachers, etc.) of the Early Church.

 

[txangel]

This is incorrect.

From Dominus Iesus:

1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.60

On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.62 Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.63

“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection — divided, yet in some way one — of Churches and ecclesial communities; nor are they free to hold that today the Church of Christ nowhere really exists, and must be considered only as a goal which all Churches and ecclesial communities must strive to reach”.64 In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.65 “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

What an awesome response. I’ve been searching for something like this to share with my sister, who, unfortunately has fallen away from the Church. I’m always afraid of saying the wrong thing that might move her even further away instead of bringing her back home. Thank you and God Bless

 

[Mannyfit75]

To answer the question. Christ’s Church is the Catholic Church.

 

[Odell]

Hi,

As far as the disciples of the Apostles knowing more then me. At this point they probably did because I have only been studying the bible for 3 years. Give me some more time and Im sure I can catch up. It might take a lifetime.

Why do something that may take a life time when the church has already done it for you?

The bible was given to anyone who wants to read, study it and hopefully believe what it says. God gave us a brain and expects us to use it to study His Word. The disciples of the Apostles did not have exclusive rights to the bible.

And thats what catholics do. we read it we study it but we do it threw the church the one who gave the world the bible that why I said why do it your way when it takes a lifetime when we have the answers?

and actually the deciples did have exclusive rights they did not make copies and hand them out and say here this is all you need to know just read.

After all, catholics are allowed to read it and study it. Suprisingly, some catholics when they start to read and study the bible end up leaving the CC. I have always found that fascinating when a catholic tells me that is why they left the CC. I ask them why would reading the bible make you want to leave the CC and there answers have consistently been—the CC teaches differently then the bible

I always find it fascinating when protestants read the bible they form a new denomination our switch churchs. Man the holy spirit is doing a number on you guys.

Don’t know what that “e” word means. I’m simple so use simple words if you want me to understand.
We are encouraged to interpret scripture, under the guidance of the HS, for “study and reproof”, as evident in 2Timothy16-17. Hasn’t this been said a million times before?
2 Peter 1:20 says that not just anyone can interpret scripture to his/her liking. Since the HS guided its writing, the HS must also guide its interpretation.

actually we are encouraged to interprit scripture the way the church does, not form a church because I came up with a new correct interpritation or the holy spirit lead me to a different correct interpritation.

do you really believe this? please sho w us where the holy spirit is leading you all differently because I really do not know who to listen too we cant all be right.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Why do something that may take a life time when the church has already done it for you?

 

[water]

The Holy Spirit works in both churches - Catholic and Protestants . We just need to be opened up, showing humble, humility and love, the Holy Spirit will work over time on you. If you have opened a little bit, He works less.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The Holy Spirit works in both churches - Catholic and Protestants . We just need to be opened up, showing humble, humility and love, the Holy Spirit will work over time on you. If you have opened a little bit, He works less.

EXACTLY–Thank you water. I feel the exact same way:thumbsup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

~I
, does it promise the Holy Spirit as a guide to the individual? Hi, I knew I answered this somewhere else in this thread. Please see Scripture I posted in #63:thumbsup:

[/QUOTE]

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Please site an actual verse. (You won’t find one.)

OOPS Sorry

 

[E.E.N.S]

I answered you in the other post above. With Scripture BTW

OOPS Sorry

You gave a list of about 7 books. Can you please provide me with an actual verse from the Bible that supports private interpretation of Scripture?