What is Christ's Church?

[ALLFORHIM]

You gave a list of about 7 books. Can you please provide me with an actual verse from the Bible that supports private interpretation of Scripture?

Hi,

I was answering your question about where in the bible it talks about the HS indwelling in us individually. I didnt see your question about private intrepretation.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,

I was answering your question about where in the bible it talks about the HS indwelling in us individually. I didnt see your question about private intrepretation.

We Catholics believe that as members of the People of God, we have the Holy Spirit. We receive it at Confirmation.

The question was not about whether individuals, in service to the People of God, have the Holy Spirit, but rather, whether each person has the Holy Spirit’s gift of Infallibility (which in the Catholic Church we believe resides in the Pope as an individual, and in the College of Bishops as a group) to be able to interpret the Scriptures without error.

In the Catholic Church, we don’t even think that the Pope has that much power - even he relies on outside help, and looks at the entire history of the Church, before giving his interpretation.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

We Catholics believe that as members of the People of God, we have the Holy Spirit. We receive it at Confirmation.

The question was not about whether individuals, in service to the People of God, have the Holy Spirit, but rather, whether each person has the Holy Spirit’s gift of Infallibility (which in the Catholic Church we believe resides in the Pope as an individual, and in the College of Bishops as a group) to be able to interpret the Scriptures without error.

In the Catholic Church, we don’t even think that the Pope has that much power - even he relies on outside help, and looks at the entire history of the Church, before giving his interpretation.

Well then I completely misread your post. ill have to get back to you on that one.

 

[Janet_S]

Odell;1876519:

Hi,
Because I am not convinced the CC is right in the intrepretation… . .
Exactly you are not just reading the bible and letting it speak to you, you are putting your entire trust into someone elses intrepretation… . .
Yes as a matter of fact the HS is doing a number on me. My life has changed dramatically for the better. I am a new creature in Christ with a new heart and a whole different outlook on life. The HS has been guiding me and teaching me spiritual things that I did not understand 3 years ago. Now when I read the bible it is like a lightbulb is going off in my head.:dancing:
Peace and Love

I am very happy for you that you have found the Lord, that the HS is working on you, and that your life has changed. The same thing happened to me, so I understand what you are saying.

This excerpt from GK Chesterton’s essay “Why I am a Catholic” may help you understand the way Catholics approach reading the Bible:

chesterton.org/gkc/theologian/whycatholic.htm

"There is no other case of one continuous intelligent institution (CC) that has been thinking about thinking for two thousand years. Its experience naturally covers nearly all experiences; and especially nearly all errors. The result is a map in which all the blind alleys and bad roads are clearly marked, all the ways that have been shown to be worthless by the best of all evidence: the evidence of those who have gone down them.

On this map of the mind the errors are marked as exceptions. The greater part of it consists of playgrounds and happy hunting-fields, where the mind may have as much liberty as it likes; not to mention any number of intellectual battle-fields in which the battle is indefinitely open and undecided. But it does definitely take the responsibility of marking certain roads as leading nowhere or leading to destruction, to a blank wall, or a sheer precipice. By this means, it does prevent men from wasting their time or losing their lives upon paths that have been found futile or disastrous again and again in the past, but which might otherwise entrap travelers again and again in the future. The Church does make herself responsible for warning her people against these; and upon these the real issue of the case depends. She does dogmatically defend humanity from its worst foes, those hoary and horrible and devouring monsters of the old mistakes. Now all these false issues have a way of looking quite fresh, especially to a fresh generation."

 

[Deo_Gratias]

I suppose that Joseph must have built it for her, when they were engaged to be married. It’s not there any more.

A friend of mine tells me that angels transported it to Loreto when the Muslims tried to burn it down one time. I have no idea if that’s true, but it is true that there is a little Israelite house sitting in the middle of a church in Loreto - strangest thing, and they have no idea how it got there, since it can’t fit through any of the doors there. People go on pilgrimages to see it.

I found this article from our parish, Our Lady of Loreto Catholic Church website.

The tradition of a shrine at Loreto goes back some 707 years to the year 1291. In that year the crusaders abandoned the Holy Lands to the Turks. As the last of the crusaders returned to their homes in Western Europe, they returned with a number of relics, objects of devotion, and remembrances of the holy shrines. So it happened that the dwelling of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the house which both tradition and Christian devotion had maintained as the site of the appearance of the archangel Gabriel and therefore of the Incarnation of our Savior, was moved from Nazareth to the safety of Christian Europe. The house arrived at Loreto on December 10, 1294.

For centuries tradition and popular devotion maintained that the house of the Blessed Virgin had been transported to the “hill of laurels (Loreto)” by angels. Recent historical and archeological research into the question has confirmed that the house was in fact transported to Italy by the forces of man. But this same research has also confirmed that the house can be dated to first-century Palestine. Indeed, there has been discovered the existence of graffiti and other marking on the house which demonstrate that it served as an object of devotion for our ancestors in the faith from the earliest centuries of Christianity.

 

[jmcrae]

Deo;

Thanks; that’s really interesting!!

 

[Odell]

Odell;1876519:

Exactly you are not just reading the bible and letting it speak to you, you are putting your entire trust into someone elses intrepretation.Because that is too easy and I prefer to study it and discern with the help of the HS instead.

You are puting your entire trust on your own interpritation and not the historical interpritation. that is very risky. dont get me wrong but you can come to some knowledge of the truth but there is alot of hard things to grasp in the bible. What do you do when you come across something hard to understand?

Then how do we know what they wrote. Apperently someone copied them. The bible was written for everyone by God to His children(us).

never said it was not but we need a gude. The Church that is lead by the holy spirit.

Yes as a matter of fact the HS is doing a number on me. My life has changed dramatically for the better. I am a new creature in Christ with a new heart and a whole different outlook on life. The HS has been guiding me and teaching me spiritual things that I did not understand 3 years ago. Now when I read the bible it is like a lightbulb is going off in my head.:dancing:

This is good allforhim and I dont doubt that the holyspirit has moved you but he is not done yet. we all have to continue to grow in knowledge of the truth. But the holy spirit does not lead us all into different truth interpriting scripture. So who do I turn to for correct interpritation? which denomination? the church next door says the same thing but gets a total different interpritation is this ok? Is the holy spirit leading us all to believe different things?

Odell I would be very careful about making judgements about people you dont just because they dont think the same way you do. The comment about the HS doing a number on us protestants is a very judgemental, prideful and arrogant statement. I would never presume to know what the HS is doing in your life I suggest you do the same.

Im sorry I did get alittle carried away I hope you except my apology. But it is very confusing with everyone claiming to have the right interpritation and everyone claiming to be lead by the holy spirit.

Peace and Love

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Odell:
Hi,

Of course i accept your apology and I understand how frustrating it is because there are so many false teachings out there

I have come across some tough teachings that I think I can really never intellectually understand and that is when I let faith take over. In the bible it says to not lean on our own understanding. So sometimes I just have to trust God and have Faith that whatever He means it is for a good, loving and just reason.

I just keep on studying the bible and have faith and trust the HS will continue to teach and guide me. And your right He will not be done with me until Jesus takes me home. I am continually being sanctified.

 

[skeptictank]

Both Catholics and protestants believe that “the church” is the body of Christ, the assembly of all believers.

However for there to be a group of “believers” there must be an accepted set of beliefs, thus to reject The Church is to reject this body of believers, their beliefs and ultimately Christ himself.

“Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

It seems that christ and the apostles taught the essential doctrines of christ’s sacrifice and ressurection. If there had been some other essential doctrine, they would have taught it in Acts.

“Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

What they seem to have taught was the simple grace of Jesus Christ.

Now to the issue of authority. The NT church had a clear structure of authority.

Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

It is the prayer of faith that is called for. In the context of the passage the issue does not seem to be the necessity of authority. Sickness is described in the old and new testaments as a consequence of sin. The reason for calling elders could be as simple as having someone in closer fellowship with god to pray over you.

Acts 14
23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

I don’t see what that has to do with the authority of the catholic church specifically. Churches all over the place ordain elders. How am I to know that it is the catholic church which sprung from the progressive “ordination of elders” as you seem to be assuming. That besides, the ordination of elders in no way necessitates an elder for full fellowship with god.

I Timothy 3
1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Once again you’ll have to draw some connection between your church, and the authoritative positions spoken of in scripture.

I Peter 5
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

what does this have to do with the catholic churches authority?

Philippians 1
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

A bishop and a deacon are both labels of some form of leadership. This can be present outside of your church hierarchy. And again, I don’t see the connection here with your church.

1 Thessalonians 5
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, **and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; **13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

Hebrews 13
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

I would appreciate some clarification in regard to the exact connection between your (catholic) church and the supposed authority in all or at least one of the verses above. Also, I don’t see any connection between these verses and the sort of thing present in the church heirarchy. If you could clarify these things for me, I’d appreciate it.

It would have been unimaginable for a Christian of the time to consider themselves truly Christian without fully accepting the authority that Christ himself established.

Yes, but notice that it is the authority HE establishes, not that which the “CHURCH” establishes.

Skeptictank

 

[skeptictank]

You can easily prove that the Catholic Church is the historical Church starting with Christ - that is what I was saying. (From there it shouldn’t be too hard to see that it is also the One True Church as well. )

how do you prove that?

Skeptictank

 

[Jerry-Jet]

You can’t go back in time to the apostles and see a sign outside that says Rome Catholic Church.

But if you could go back in time to Rome and ask them where the church was that believed in Jesus–eventually someone would be able to give you directions.

If you described to any christian of that time doctrines that were Protestant and asked them if there were any churches around that believed things like that they would tell you no!

If you were able to live for 1500 years and with your own eyes thoughout all of the history ithe christian church in Rome-- which would through those years be calling itself Catholic-- and also not seeing any that would call themselves Presbyterian or Methodist, or Baptist, etc.

If you could see that with your own eyes would you then believe?

Some would. Others would say that it was only an illusion and would still be Protestants.

In the parable about Lazarus and the rich man the rich man who was in torment asked that he could return to the living and warn his relatives–Jesus said they have Moses and the prophets–if they won’t believe them they won’t believe someone who has risen from the dead!

The Catholic Church never died thought the last 2,000 years and there are some who want believe it even if they had the chance to be with it and see for themselves for 2,000 years.

Jesus said "“you will know a tree by its fruit”

Research the history of the last 2,000 years and see all the good fruit that has come from the Catholic Church.

If you don’t know what to believe about history because you weren’t there then go to some Catholic churches in your area and see for yourself if they are bearing good fruit.

If what you see is good fruit do not curse your eyes–thank God for giving them to you so you can see!

 

[skeptictank]

How do you know that what your pastor, deacons, and elders teach you is true?

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

You say that your pastor and his staff are guided by the Holy Spirit; yet we have no record in Scripture of the Holy Spirit being given to Protestants.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our
Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us
with all spiritual blessings in heavenly
[places] in Christ:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God does what he will to whom he will.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Skeptictank

 

[skeptictank]

You can’t go back in time to the apostles and see a sign outside that says Rome Catholic Church.

I’m glad that you understand that.

But if you could go back in time to Rome and ask them where the church was that believed in Jesus–eventually someone would be able to give you directions.

probably…

If you described to any christian of that time doctrines that were Protestant and asked them if there were any churches around that believed things like that they would tell you no!

what do you mean by “if you described to any christian of that time doctrines that were protestant”?

If I asked them, “is there a church around here that teaches salvation by the blood of jesus christ?”.

Would they say “no!”?

If I asked them, “Does this church worship one god?” what would be their reply.

If I asked them, “do I have to attend this church to be in communion with god?” would they tell me yes?

If I told them, “I don’t attend church, because I spend my time studying the word and trying to win souls to christ” would they tell me that I was missing out on something?

If I asked them, “what work would god have me do?” what would be their answer?

The answer of our lord was:

Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If you were able to live for 1500 years and with your own eyes thoughout all of the history ithe christian church in Rome-- which would through those years be calling itself Catholic-- and also not seeing any that would call themselves Presbyterian or Methodist, or Baptist, etc.

If you could see that with your own eyes would you then believe?

I believe in jesus christ, and all of his teachings in the scriptures. What else do I need to believe?

The apostles didn’t say that the bretheren were dependant on their leadership, only that their leadership would help them to understanding the things of god.

When did the leadership become a necessity? when did the church become anything but the body of believers? When did the clergy become some sort of buffer between christ and those who claim to worship him?

Some would. Others would say that it was only an illusion and would still be Protestants.

You still haven’t proven anything my friend. That fact that you believe something doesn’t make it true.

In the parable about Lazarus and the rich man the rich man who was in torment asked that he could return to the living and warn his relatives–Jesus said they have Moses and the prophets–if they won’t believe them they won’t believe someone who has risen from the dead!

The Catholic Church never died thought the last 2,000 years and there are some who want believe it even if they had the chance to be with it and see for themselves for 2,000 years.

Jesus said "“you will know a tree by its fruit”

Research the history of the last 2,000 years and see all the good fruit that has come from the Catholic Church.

Right, all of the burning of heretics, and then pagans, not to mention the crusades. All that was great fruit huh? It almost maddens me to see people proud of their church rather than being humble in christ. This organization is christ’s creation, but it is made up of individuals. If each individual never saw the others, he/she would still be in perfect communion with god by all the same means. i.e. prayer, and the word. They would also be perfectly connected.

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Cr 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.

1Cr 12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body

Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

cont…

 

[skeptictank]

cont…

If you don’t know what to believe about history because you weren’t there then go to some Catholic churches in your area and see for yourself if they are bearing good fruit.

I don’t think so. I’ve attended mass, and found that the homilies fdo not focus on the scriptures. Rather than teaching his flock to be prepared with the word of truth (the sword of the spirit) the priest/deacons try to teach some lesson that they see fit, and quote one or two scriptures in support of it.

I’m not sure how extensive the practice is, but as far as I know the church equates the value and validity of scripture with tradition.

This in and of itself is a trajedy, for one is of man, and one is of god.

I spoke with one catholic friend of mine regarding scripture and tradition and she says to me, “well, they’re pretty much the same.” I personally see this as the fruit of blasphemy, and of ignorance. I won’t continue, because I’m not here to rebuke catholics for the errors of the church, but you know where I stand.

If what you see is good fruit do not curse your eyes–thank God for giving them to you so you can see!

I see good fruit where my friends turn away from fornication and paganism under the guidance of gods word and spirit. I see good fruit between one soul and another in acts of kindness and charity. The organization of the church itself is unstable (in my mind) and seems to attempt to unite that which ought to remain at variance (the marriage of church and state in the earlier centuries for example. Or the attempts to “convert” people by changing its doctrine on limbo.)

I see friends pushing me away and refusing to speak with me on spiritual topics, because “I don’t understand”. Church is not a place you attend, nor is it limited to rules and regulations. “all of the law is summed up in this word; that thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself”

I see no such thing coming out of the “Catholic” church.

Skeptictank

 

[Odell]

Hi,

Of course i accept your apology and I understand how frustrating it is because there are so many false teachings out there

how do you know they are false and how do you know that yours is not false?

If I told them, “I don’t attend church, because I spend my time studying the word and trying to win souls to christ” would they tell me that I was missing out on something?

absolutly they would and we tell people today they are missing something. And you are to. The fullness of the truth. Eucharist and so on

I believe in jesus christ, and all of his teachings in the scriptures. What else do I need to believe?

But all his teachings are different than all his teaching from the Chruch next door so who really has ALL his teachings?

If there is a problem with a moral or docternal issue who do you turn to. Which Church do you turn to. Or does it even matter?

 

[skeptictank]

all those NT references are to advise one to look at the OT… the NT was not formed yet.

But none of them imply any self interpretation…

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

[emphasis mine]

Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

[emphasis mine]

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[/qute]

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

This verse specifically, not only implies, but encourages self interperetation.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

,

[emphasis mine]

With Love for all of My Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Skeptictank

 

[skeptictank]

how do you know they are false and how do you know that yours is not false?

Act 17:10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

absolutly they would and we tell people today they are missing something. And you are to. The fullness of the truth. Eucharist and so on

Could you point me to some aspect of this “fullness of the truth” that I’m missing out one?

As for the Eucharist, that’s for another thread.

But all his teachings are different than all his teaching from the Chruch next door so who really has ALL his teachings?

I know you don’t really believe that. God’s teachings are “catholic” (universal) but not in the sense that you claim. Who has all of his teachings?

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Anyone who believes in jesus christ has (not “will be given”) has everlasting life.

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

If there is a problem with a moral or docternal issue who do you turn to. Which Church do you turn to. Or does it even matter?

why would you turn to the church?

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

1Jo 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Skeptictank

 

[Mannyfit75]

cont…

I don’t think so. I’ve attended mass, and found that the homilies fdo not focus on the scriptures. Rather than teaching his flock to be prepared with the word of truth (the sword of the spirit) the priest/deacons try to teach some lesson that they see fit, and quote one or two scriptures in support of it.

**For someone who is not Catholic, I have doubts that you are reliable person.
**
I have attended more Masses than you can count, and the Liturgy is Scripture. 1st Reading is from the OT, 2nd Reading from the Epistles or Letters, and finally the Gospels from the 4 Gospels. The homilies itself reflect what the Scripture states.

Second the focus of the Mass is the Eucharistic Worship, which we Catholic consumed Our Lord and Savior in Holy Communion.

I’m not sure how extensive the practice is, but as far as I know the church equates the value and validity of scripture with tradition.

The Catholic values Sacred Scripture, and Sacred Tradition as Word of God. The Bible does not condemn traditions.

This in and of itself is a trajedy, for one is of man, and one is of god.

I spoke with one catholic friend of mine regarding scripture and tradition and she says to me, “well, they’re pretty much the same.” I personally see this as the fruit of blasphemy, and of ignorance. I won’t continue, because I’m not here to rebuke catholics for the errors of the church, but you know where I stand.[/QUPTE]

**Blasphemy? You sound like a Pharisee who knows little about Catholicism. I would say you are the ignorant one who does not know your Christian history very well.
**

I see good fruit where my friends turn away from fornication and paganism under the guidance of gods word and spirit. I see good fruit between one soul and another in acts of kindness and charity. The organization of the church itself is unstable (in my mind) and seems to attempt to unite that which ought to remain at variance (the marriage of church and state in the earlier centuries for example. Or the attempts to “convert” people by changing its doctrine on limbo.)

**The Catholic Church did not change its doctrine of Limbo. It specifically stated that the Church see fit the faith of the unborn is up to God’s mercy. **

We ourselves cannot know their faith.

I see friends pushing me away and refusing to speak with me on spiritual topics, because “I don’t understand”. Church is not a place you attend, nor is it limited to rules and regulations. “all of the law is summed up in this word; that thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself”

Yes you don’t understand. You think you do, but many of us Catholics here are trying to show you what we Catholics truly believe.

I see no such thing coming out of the “Catholic” church.

**
There is. Today the Church was filled with many parishioners, listening to the homily and receiving Jesus Christ.**

Skeptictank

 

[skeptictank]

**For someone who is not Catholic, I have doubts that you are reliable person.
**

As you well should.

I have attended more Masses than you can count, and the Liturgy is Scripture. 1st Reading is from the OT, 2nd Reading from the Epistles or Letters, and finally the Gospels from the 4 Gospels. The homilies itself reflect what the Scripture states.

That’s quite different from what I’ve experienced, but of course, my experience would appear to be somewhat less extensive than yours.

Second the focus of the Mass is the Eucharistic Worship, which we Catholic consumed Our Lord and Savior in Holy Communion.

As I am aware, and as I have said to one of our brother/sister’s that is a discussion for another thread.

The Catholic values Sacred Scripture, and Sacred Tradition as Word of God. The Bible does not condemn traditions.

Maybe not, but it does say exort us to search the scriptures daily that we might know what is true.

There are some warnings however,

Rev 22:18 ¶ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

There is also the problem with your traditions that not all of its contributors completely agreed in their writings. Such is quite contrary to the cannon of scripture.

Skeptictank

cont…

 

[Mannyfit75]

Rev 22:18 ¶ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

If you claim that the Catholic Church added books. Well, they only added 27 NT books to Scripture.

The list of Books of the Bible was compelled in 382 A.D in the Council of Rome, Council of Hippo 392 A.D, and Council of Carthage 396 A.D.

These books included the Septuagint (Greek Translation of the Bible written in 3rd Century BC to 1st Century BC, in Alexandria by Helenistic Jews).

Early Christians used them. The only thing that the Church added was the 27 NT text of the NT.

Second the verse only stated that nothing something be added in the Book of Revelation.

In fact Martin Luther, one of the Reformers did not think the Book of Revelations, Letter of James, should be remain in the Bible. He even called the Letters of James as the strawman…