What is Church's official position on the Jews?

[Madaglan]

Recently I have come across some articles online which seem to suggest that a panel of Catholic bishops, in meeting with Jewish representatives, has recently made several, albeit yet informal, declarations stating that the Jewish people should not feel compelled to convert to Christianity, but should instead continue in their Jewish religion, since the covenant made between God and Abraham is eternal and salvatory for the Jews.

I have seen numerous similiar articles–some accusatory, others simply informational–about how many Catholic bishops are recognizing the Jewish religion as salvatory–meaning, that the Jews need not become Christians since they are already Jews, and are God’s people.

I know that many Cathoilcs, especially traditional ones, are infuriated what these Catholic bishops are saying and doing. Many well-respected Catholics have labeled such allowances to the Jewish religion as bordering on apostasy.

Personally, although I have Jewish friends and have no qualms against Jewish people or their religion as such, I wonder if, in ecumenical discussions with Jews, Muslims, etc., we Catholics are perhaps downplaying the Apostolic and Traditional understanding of only Christianity as the path of salvation, whereas all other religions, however well-intentioned, should not be considered a path of salvation, since they lack Christ, who alone is the gatekeeper to heaven, and who will only let in his sheep, those of the Church.

While I understand the CCC in its statements that we should not judge the salvation of those who, through ignorance, do not yet know Christ, I wonder what we can say about the Jewish religion, and perhaps of the Muslim religion, regarding how “salvatory” these paths are.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Ghosty]

Recently I have come across some articles online which seem to suggest that a panel of Catholic bishops, in meeting with Jewish representatives, has recently made several, albeit yet informal, declarations stating that the Jewish people should not feel compelled to convert to Christianity, but should instead continue in their Jewish religion, since the covenant made between God and Abraham is eternal and salvatory for the Jews.

The American Bishops did indeed draft an article that said as much, but it was shot down so fast that their heads were spinning. The Church’s official position seems to be that the Covenant of the Hebrews DOES still exist, but that it is NOT Salvatory. Since the Hebrew Covenant makes no direct mention of Salvation this is not in any way contrary to the Christian Covenant, which is God’s Covenant with all humans, Hebrew and Gentile, for Salvation.

Both Covenants are eternal, but they deal with completely different things. The Hebrew Covenant deals with the survival of the Hebrew People, and the Christian Covenant is the fruit of Salvation that grew from the Tree that is the Hebrew People. To argue that acceptance of the Christian Covenant by all people is not an end-goal of the Church is indeed apostacy, and dishonest. The Hebrews have a PARTICULAR Covenant, the Church is the GENERAL Covenant.

 

[Ahimsa]

If Jews need not feel compelled to convert, then which Jews are included? Orthodox? Conservative? Reform? Cultural Jews?

What about people who convert to Judaism? Would they also be free to remain Jews and be assured of conversion?

As a non-Catholic, I find this very interesting.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by Ghosty:

The American Bishops did indeed draft an article that said as much, but it was shot down so fast that their heads were spinning. The Church’s official position seems to be that the Covenant of the Hebrews DOES still exist, but that it is NOT Salvatory. Since the Hebrew Covenant makes no direct mention of Salvation this is not in any way contrary to the Christian Covenant, which is God’s Covenant with all humans, Hebrew and Gentile, for Salvation.

Both Covenants are eternal, but they deal with completely different things. The Hebrew Covenant deals with the survival of the Hebrew People, and the Christian Covenant is the fruit of Salvation that grew from the Tree that is the Hebrew People. To argue that acceptance of the Christian Covenant by all people is not an end-goal of the Church is indeed apostacy, and dishonest. The Hebrews have a PARTICULAR Covenant, the Church is the GENERAL Covenant.

Thank you for your excellent description.

Who, might I ask, shot down the decision made by bishops? The pope? What role did Cardinal Arinze have in all this?

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by Ahimsa:

If Jews need not feel compelled to convert, then which Jews are included? Orthodox? Conservative? Reform? Cultural Jews?

Good question(s).

What about people who convert to Judaism? Would they also be free to remain Jews and be assured of conversion?

Another good question, especially since God’s covenant with Abraham was one that entailed a specific ethnic group–namely the Semitic Hebrew people. Granted that Gentiles who take up Judaism can be considered convets, does the covenant of Abraham cross ethnic boundaries and include these individuals as well?

 

[Ghosty]

Who, might I ask, shot down the decision made by bishops? The pope? What role did Cardinal Arinze have in all this?

The public, most prominantly Hebrew Catholics, actually. The outcry was sudden and coherent enough that the Bishops got the hint immediately and took it down themselves, without needing intervention from Rome. It remains to be seen if they’ll try a similar stunt in the future. You can check out The Association of Hebrew Catholics for more information on the incident in question. I don’t know if Arinze had any role in it, as I think he was no longer the head of Inter-religious Dialogue at that point.

Again, the position of the Church is that all people are saved through Christ, even the Jews. They are NOT saved by virtue of the Covenant of Abraham, as the issue of Salvation doesn’t even come up in the Hebrew Covenant.

 

[alfredo]

It looks to me like the Church may have softened her position on the Jews recently.

I don’t think that there are too many Catholics today who hold strictly to the following:

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439,: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.– But the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in unity… Therefore let him who wishes to be saved, think thus concerning the Trinity.

 “But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...the Son of God is God and man...– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

 

[Ghosty]

The Church hasn’t changed its stance at all, Alfredo. What the U.S. Bishops said was wrong and did not represent Church doctrine, which is why they rescinded the document in question.

 

[philipbenedict]

CCC: The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People.

When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God. The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”; “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

 

[alfredo]

Ghosty:

The Church hasn’t changed its stance at all, .

How then does one interpret the following:
“But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ…the Son of God is God and man…– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

 

[reen12]

Hi, Magdalen,

My understanding is that the Noahide Law covers
all of humanity. Judaism does not seek converts.
It holds that all Gentiles who adhere to the Noahide
Law have a place in the “world to come.”
There are seven Noahide Laws. If you have an
interest in looking into this further, a Google
search will provide an account of what these
7 laws are.

Best,
reen12

 

[RobbyS]

Ghosty:

The American Bishops did indeed draft an article that said as much, but it was shot down so fast that their heads were spinning. The Church’s official position seems to be that the Covenant of the Hebrews DOES still exist, but that it is NOT Salvatory. Since the Hebrew Covenant makes no direct mention of Salvation this is not in any way contrary to the Christian Covenant, which is God’s Covenant with all humans, Hebrew and Gentile, for Salvation.

Both Covenants are eternal, but they deal with completely different things. The Hebrew Covenant deals with the survival of the Hebrew People, and the Christian Covenant is the fruit of Salvation that grew from the Tree that is the Hebrew People. To argue that acceptance of the Christian Covenant by all people is not an end-goal of the Church is indeed apostacy, and dishonest. The Hebrews have a PARTICULAR Covenant, the Church is the GENERAL Covenant.

A point never to be ignored is that Our Lord is the Jewish Messiah. They are to him flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone. As John Paul once said, they are not only our brothers, but in a certain way, our elder brothers. For us to have laid hands on them is, therefore, an especially evil deed.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by RobbyS:

For us to have laid hands on them is, therefore, an especially evil deed.

What exactly do you mean by this statement?

 

[reen12]

Hi, alfredo,

Apologetics is not my area of expertise, but I’ll give it
a try:

"How then does one interpret the following:
“But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ…the Son of God is God and man…– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” quote, alfredo

OK, the Church also teaches about baptism of desire,
as a way of being incorporated into the Church. I’m
pretty sure the archives of the forums would have
information on “baptism of desire.”

Father Feeney was excommunicated from the Church
for teaching, in the 1940’s, that actual membership in
the Church was required. His claim was: “There is no
salvation outside the Church.” His claim was
rejected outright by the Church, and, as I say,
he was excommunicated.

Perhaps other posters will be able to explain
this more clearly, and add substantially to what
I’ve offered on the topic.
Best,
reen12

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Madaglan:

Recently I have come across some articles online which seem to suggest that a panel of Catholic bishops, in meeting with Jewish representatives, has recently made several, albeit yet informal, declarations stating that the Jewish people should not feel compelled to convert to Christianity, but should instead continue in their Jewish religion, since the covenant made between God and Abraham is eternal and salvatory for the Jews.

I have seen numerous similiar articles–some accusatory, others simply informational–about how many Catholic bishops are recognizing the Jewish religion as salvatory–meaning, that the Jews need not become Christians since they are already Jews, and are God’s people.

I know that many Cathoilcs, especially traditional ones, are infuriated what these Catholic bishops are saying and doing. Many well-respected Catholics have labeled such allowances to the Jewish religion as bordering on apostasy.

Personally, although I have Jewish friends and have no qualms against Jewish people or their religion as such, I wonder if, in ecumenical discussions with Jews, Muslims, etc., we Catholics are perhaps downplaying the Apostolic and Traditional understanding of only Christianity as the path of salvation, whereas all other religions, however well-intentioned, should not be considered a path of salvation, since they lack Christ, who alone is the gatekeeper to heaven, and who will only let in his sheep, those of the Church.

While I understand the CCC in its statements that we should not judge the salvation of those who, through ignorance, do not yet know Christ, I wonder what we can say about the Jewish religion, and perhaps of the Muslim religion, regarding how “salvatory” these paths are.

Any help is appreciated.

Hi. I’m a Jew who has recently started exploring the Catholic faith. I know you probably didn’t mean anything by it, but please don’t refer to us as ignorant. Thanks.

 

[reen12]

I’m with you, Jew_Man_73 !

reen12

 

[Jew_Man_73]

RobbyS:

A point never to be ignored is that Our Lord is the Jewish Messiah. They are to him flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone. As John Paul once said, they are not only our brothers, but in a certain way, our elder brothers. For us to have laid hands on them is, therefore, an especially evil deed.

It’s also important to remember that Jews believe that our covenant is salvatory. Most Jews believe that the Messiah will be a mortal man who will be a great political leader. It’s commonly believed that he will free the Jewish people from the threat of their enemies and show the world that Judaism is the only true religion, and people all over the world will take up the Jewish faith.
I’ve just recently started reading the New Testament and exploring the Catholic faith, so I’m not an expert on Christianity. However, I have a hard time with a Christian of any branch saying that a Jew is not saved. Most Jews I know love G-d and honor Him alot more than most Christians I’ve encountered. And we are not ignorant, either.
I don’t say these things to be argumentative, just please be careful how you express yourselves.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

reen12:

I’m with you, Jew_Man_73 !

reen12

Thank you reen12. I appreciate the support! G-d bless!

 

[Maranajewell]

Jew_Man_73,

With a great deal of respect, I don’t think the poster who mentioned ignorance meant to say that Jewish people are ignorant. I think he or she merely meant “ignorance of Christ” simply to mean that the Jewish people for whatever reason (be it their understanding of Scripture, or simply not recognizing Him) do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. I don’t think the poster meant anything derogatory in the use of that word. That being said, your (name removed by moderator)ut on this topic should shed alot of light on this discussion and may G-d bless you! -Shalom, Maranajewell

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Maranajewell:

Jew_Man_73,

With a great deal of respect, I don’t think the poster who mentioned ignorance meant to say that Jewish people are ignorant. I think he or she merely meant “ignorance of Christ” simply to mean that the Jewish people for whatever reason (be it their understanding of Scripture, or simply not recognizing Him) do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. I don’t think the poster meant anything derogatory in the use of that word. That being said, your (name removed by moderator)ut on this topic should shed alot of light on this discussion and may G-d bless you! -Shalom, Maranajewell

Thanks, I see your point. As I said, I don’t think the poster meant any harm, but “ignorance” or “ignorant” should still be avoided, I think. There’s no need to use terms that many people would potentially find insulting. I could say that most Christians are ignorant about Judaism as well. Thanks, and may G-d bless you as well. Shalom.
And by the way, if anyone has any questions about Jewish beliefs, I’ll be happy to answer them to the best of my abilities. I’m certainly not a rabbi, but I’ll do my absolute best!