What is it that homosexuals really want?

[fix]

I do not know what moral relativism is. If what I speak sounds similar, then maybe there are no differences. But you questioning the way you did, I am assuming that you do not like it, or do not subscribe to it.

I am trying to follow your position, but it seems unclear.

Whenever God’s law came in conflict with an actual human on earth Jesus in all His Godly wisdom did not condemn, so where do we being little Christs get off doing what even he did not?

No one is condemning any person.

I want to ask the question what is the difference between Nazi’s judging Jew’s, and Gypsies for who they are and us doing the same for people doing things we don’t like now?

Not following? Are you claiming moral equivalence? There is no comparison.

and notice I didn’t say killing. Scapegoating is a dangerous water to tread, a very slippery slope. It begins as moral high ground and catapults into madness at the drop of a hat.

I have no idea what this means?

 

[PompousMaximus]

I am trying to follow your position, but it seems unclear.

Wait I don’t understand???

No one is condemning any person.

Wait what are you trying to say?

Not following? Are you claiming moral equivalence? There is no comparison.

Not really figuring out what you mean there…

I have no idea what this means?

This doesn’t make any sense…

See I can do it too! Just ask a bunch of questions, act confused, and negate someones point.

 

[fix]

Wait I don’t understand???

Wait what are you trying to say?

Not really figuring out what you mean there…

This doesn’t make any sense…

See I can do it too! Just ask a bunch of questions, act confused, and negate someones point.

Who is your authority? That will help clear up your position for me.

 

[PompousMaximus]

No one is condemning any person.

If you say that the way someone acts or lives their life is wrong, you condemn, you judge, you look at it and say its wrong, that negates someone’s human identity given to them by God and it is none of our business.

Not following? Are you claiming moral equivalence? There is no comparison.

You are following just fine, you got the point.There is a comparison. There is a moral equivalence to the movement that lead to the Holocaust and what we do today by judging others actions as wrong or not.

 

[PompousMaximus]

Who is your authority? That will help clear up your position for me.

Jesus

 

[fix]

If you say that the way someone acts or lives their life is wrong, you condemn, you judge, you look at it and say its wrong, that negates someone’s human identity given to them by God and it is none of our business.

But, you are making a judgement right here. It seems ironic.

What do you mean by “negating human identity”? How is that possible?
Why is it wrong to point out what is true?

You are following just fine, you got the point.There is a comparison. There is a moral equivalence to the movement that lead to the Holocaust and what we do today by judging others actions as wrong or not.

No, that is incorrect. It is moral relativism you are pushing here. There is a difference between nazism and the Truth.

 

[fix]

Jesus

Great then you know He founded a Church with a living authority. He said of them he who hears you hears Me and he who rejects you rejects Me.

We can mention a few things He has said through His Church for the last 2000 years or so. Like this:

The Church, obedient to the Lord who founded her and gave to her the sacramental life, celebrates the divine plan of the loving and live-giving union of men and women in the sacrament of marriage. It is only in the marital relationship that the use of the sexual faculty can be morally good. A person engaging in homosexual behaviour therefore acts immorally.

 

[PompousMaximus]

But, you are making a judgement right here. It seems ironic.

It is ironic! I wholeheartedly agree, so I am a hypocrite. See how easy that is? just admit it. You sin and you point out the faults in others. that is hypocritical.

What do you mean by “negating human identity”? How is that possible?
Why is it wrong to point out what is true?

But you claim your truth to be bigger than other people’s truths.

No, that is incorrect. It is moral relativism you are pushing here. There is a difference between nazism and the Truth.

But don’t you understand that nazism was at one point Truth for millions of people. That is what happens when we claim to know what God knows, we fall and we fail.

also I understand that you have innumerable posts and I will not win this one. you have been on this forum since Noah was a baby so I am only trying to point some things out in hopes something will stick.

 

[PompousMaximus]

Great then you know He founded a Church with a living authority. He said of them he who hears you hears Me and he who rejects you rejects Me.

We can mention a few things He has said through His Church for the last 2000 years or so. Like this:

But how can you claim exclusive rights to Truth? Christ is bigger than your Church and mine. He exists outside of the Church, in the communities of billions across the world. You do not have exclusive rights to what you think He would like defined as Truth! Whether it comes from your “Church” or not. You claim authority from a Church not from God, in saying that you are right because Jesus told you so 2000 years ago is an overstatement. Your Church is a flawed human institution just like all the others. Accept the fact that we all make mistakes we all sin we all judge, and get off the high horse. Jesus rode on a donkey, not a chariot or war horse. Claim no authority and be one with God.

 

[fix]

It is ironic! I wholeheartedly agree, so I am a hypocrite. See how easy that is? just admit it. You sin and you point out the faults in others. that is hypocritical.

But you claim your truth to be bigger than other people’s truths.

But don’t you understand that nazism was at one point Truth for millions of people. That is what happens when we claim to know what God knows, we fall and we fail.

also I understand that you have innumerable posts and I will not win this one. you have been on this forum since Noah was a baby so I am only trying to point some things out in hopes something will stick.

Truth is a person. That people can be decieved does not mean that truth may contradict truth. It means one is right and one is wrong.

This is why I referred to moral relativism. If your position is that we can never be sure what is true then I must ask why must I follow your private teachings on the matter?

There must be an objective standard or truth is relative. If truth is relative then sociopathy is fine. Right?

 

[fix]

But how can you claim exclusive rights to Truth?

2+2=4- if that is true then it is not a matter of any exclusive rights. It just is.

Christ is bigger than your Church and mine.

Christ and His Church cannot be separated.

He exists outside of the Church, in the communities of billions across the world. You do not have exclusive rights to what you think He would like defined as Truth!

Is this your dogma?

Whether it comes from your “Church” or not. You claim authority from a Church not from God, in saying that you are right because Jesus told you so 2000 years ago is an overstatement. Your Church is a flawed human institution just like all the others. Accept the fact that we all make mistakes we all sin we all judge, and get off the high horse. Jesus rode on a donkey, not a chariot or war horse. Claim no authority and be one with God.

So, you are the authority?

 

[PompousMaximus]

2+2=4- if that is true then it is not a matter of any exclusive rights. It just is.

Christ and His Church cannot be separated.

Is this your dogma?

So, you are the authority?

But 2+2=4 is only a Truth in that we derive it to be true. It is a numerical system that was created by we humans to explain an anomaly. Is that what you are saying your Church is?

I am not claiming authority just a different point of view from yours is that wrong? I am not saying his Church is separated from him I am saying quite truthfully that making the statement that you are the one and only Church is a step too far.

Jesus is not only in and totally linked up with your Church but also with all the others. Jesus is with the Church whether it be liturgical, evangelical, episcopal, or some random holy roller only exist on one street in one place in one building no where else Church.

This is what is inherently wrong about what you all preach here you don’t derive yourselves from Adam and Eve, you separate yourselves from them, saying “I know what is Truth.” It was the tree of knowledge that the apple was plucked from. and instead of saying Jesus fixed that for me, you say as long as I do (actions) what God wills of me you are getting primo spots in heaven. Dang man, he said the last will be first, he said do not misunderstand that Faith in Jesus alone is the only thing that can get you to heaven. Nothing you do will help. Prostitutes, murderers, adulterers all go to heaven first.

Your legalistic nature makes you heirs to the pharisaic tradition that put Jesus to death.
Catholics!

 

[PompousMaximus]

Truth is a person. That people can be decieved does not mean that truth may contradict truth. It means one is right and one is wrong.

This is why I referred to moral relativism. If your position is that we can never be sure what is true then I must ask why must I follow your private teachings on the matter?

There must be an objective standard or truth is relative. If truth is relative then sociopathy is fine. Right?

And don’t think I am trying to change your mind, I have already stated in the conversation that you far out rank me in this forum and obviously you are a few steps ahead of me in the logic department. Although I took a few classes.

Please do not follow my personal teachings on the matter, but don’t continue to maintain or assure that your view on the matter is Truth because you say you heard God say it. Because God says a lot to a lot of people.

The essential problem is your assuredness on the matter. It is almost matter of fact that what you maintain is right and true and if there is deviation from that then it is not truth. That is also called stubbornness, hardheadedness, and snobbishness. On at least two occasions I have said I am not right here, but you maintain superiority grinding me into the ground.

Where is your humility?

 

[Stephen168]

But 2+2=4 is only a Truth in that we derive it to be true. It is a numerical system that was created by we humans to explain an anomaly.

What anomaly is 2+2=4 explaining? In what way would 2+2=4 not be true?

 

[PompousMaximus]

What anomaly is 2+2=4 explaining? In what way would 2+2=4 not be true?

I mean we could redefine a word. Take pot holder. We could say it now means to stab with malicious intent. It is how we define how we see things in the world.

And 2+2=4 is a leap to explain that your Church is truth because certain numbers in relationship with each other act in the same way every time.

 

[fix]

But 2+2=4 is only a Truth in that we derive it to be true. It is a numerical system that was created by we humans to explain an anomaly. Is that what you are saying your Church is?

Huh? Is 2+2=4 true or not? The symbols simply represent what is real.

I am not claiming authority just a different point of view from yours is that wrong?

Yes, it is wrong. I am not simply asserting my opinion. I am talking about moral truth.

I am not saying his Church is separated from him I am saying quite truthfully that making the statement that you are the one and only Church is a step too far.

Based on whose authority? We can find plenty of evidence Christ founded the Church. Where is the evidence He was wrong?

Jesus is not only in and totally linked up with your Church but also with all the others. Jesus is with the Church whether it be liturgical, evangelical, episcopal, or some random holy roller only exist on one street in one place in one building no where else Church.

To be accurate the fullness of Truth exists in the Catholic Church. Yes, elements of truth may be found in other communities, but so can error be found.

This is what is inherently wrong about what you all preach here you don’t derive yourselves from Adam and Eve, you separate yourselves from them, saying “I know what is Truth.” It was the tree of knowledge that the apple was plucked from. and instead of saying Jesus fixed that for me, you say as long as I do (actions) what God wills of me you are getting primo spots in heaven.

That is not what the Church teaches.

Dang man, he said the last will be first, he said do not misunderstand that Faith in Jesus alone is the only thing that can get you to heaven. Nothing you do will help. Prostitutes, murderers, adulterers all go to heaven first.

How do you know what Jesus said?

Your legalistic nature makes you heirs to the pharisaic tradition that put Jesus to death.
Catholics!

Loving Jesus and following the moral law makes us legalistic? Note He said of the Pharisees that the people should do exactly as they tell you to do, but do not be hypocrites as they are.

And when the young man asked how do I inherit eternal life what is the first thing Christ said to him? Follow the commandments. The man said he always had and Christ looked on him and loved him. That is the least we can do. We ought to do more but we must at least not fall below that.

 

[fix]

I mean we could redefine a word. Take pot holder. We could say it now means to stab with malicious intent. It is how we define how we see things in the world.

Simply renaming an object does not change what it is.

And 2+2=4 is a leap to explain that your Church is truth because certain numbers in relationship with each other act in the same way every time.

It is no leap. It shows that an objective truth exists whether you accept it or not.

 

[fix]

And don’t think I am trying to change your mind, I have already stated in the conversation that you far out rank me in this forum and obviously you are a few steps ahead of me in the logic department. Although I took a few classes.

You can change my mind by showing me how my understanding contradicts objective truth.

Please do not follow my personal teachings on the matter, but don’t continue to maintain or assure that your view on the matter is Truth because you say you heard God say it. Because God says a lot to a lot of people.

I never said God told me anything.

The essential problem is your assuredness on the matter. It is almost matter of fact that what you maintain is right and true and if there is deviation from that then it is not truth. That is also called stubbornness, hardheadedness, and snobbishness. On at least two occasions I have said I am not right here, but you maintain superiority grinding me into the ground.

I am not grinding you anywhere. You seem miffed because I refuse to accept your position.
I am not giving you my personal opinion. I am stating what the Church teaches.

Where is your humility?

Why do I lack humility because I refuse to compromise on the teachings of Christ?

 

[Stephen168]

I mean we could redefine a word. Take pot holder. We could say it now means to stab with malicious intent. It is how we define how we see things in the world.

2+2=4 is a symbolic representation of a reality. It is true. Changing the symbols will not change the truth. The government issuing a marriage license to two people of the same sex will not make it a marriage.

And 2+2=4 is a leap to explain that your Church is truth because certain numbers in relationship with each other act in the same way every time.

Yes, 2+2=4 is not an anomaly. it is the truth. Which I would agree is the Catholic Church

 

[PompousMaximus]

Huh? Is 2+2=4 true or not? The symbols simply represent what is real.

Yes, it is wrong. I am not simply asserting my opinion. I am talking about moral truth.

Based on whose authority? We can find plenty of evidence Christ founded the Church. Where is the evidence He was wrong?

To be accurate the fullness of Truth exists in the Catholic Church. Yes, elements of truth may be found in other communities, but so can error be found.

That is not what the Church teaches.

How do you know what Jesus said?

Loving Jesus and following the moral law makes us legalistic? Note He said of the Pharisees that the people should do exactly as they tell you to do, but do not be hypocrites as they are.

And when the young man asked how do I inherit eternal life what is the first thing Christ said to him? Follow the commandments. The man said he always had and Christ looked on him and loved him. That is the least we can do. We ought to do more but we must at least not fall below that.

There is evidence that the Church went astray quite a while ago too. You aren’t bringing that up. Of course your rebuttal will be "How so? Do tell?

and when the disciples were amazed they asked who can be saved? Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

So there! By the way if you persecute others as I attempt to persecute you, we only do the enemies job. so we are gonna have to compromise at some point.