What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Quote the church fathers then. Where does it say we should marginalize everyone who does not follow the life that we feel they should lead?
Jesus didn’t marginalize anyone (maybe except the Pharisees and ultra-Orthodox Jews *hint *hint)…

Jesus ministered to prostitutes (one even washed his feet) and cohabitating couples (see the Samaritan woman at the well who had five husbands).

I’m sure he told them to turn from their sin but I am also equally sure that he didn’t marginalize them like some here suggest we do. :rolleyes:
 
Jesus didn’t marginalize anyone (maybe except the Pharisees and ultra-Orthodox Jews *hint *hint)…

Jesus ministered to prostitutes (one even washed his feet) and cohabitating couples (see the Samaritan woman at the well who had five husbands).

I’m sure he told them to turn from their sin but I am also equally sure that he didn’t marginalize them like some here suggest we do. :rolleyes:
wink wink nudge nudge know whatcha mean.
 
The one who has Cathar next to his name is I young John.
Obviously you too are a time traveller. Will you be staying long? :rolleyes:
And as far as the murdering goes I am perfectly alive and all types of heretical traditions can survive mass extinction.
It was VeritasLuxMea who was other time traveller who ‘murdered’ himself and removed ‘Cathar’ as his religion identifier. However, I must ask, how can anything survive an extinction? That seems to be a rather contradictory notion, don’t you think?
I do believe there was quite a lot of murdering early Christians if I remember correctly, so our roots have some similarities.
Indeed, Roman Emperors fed many Christians to the lions and used other exquisite tortures on them. Cathars, however, tortured themselves. Just how intent are you on doing the same thing to yourself?
And btw I agree with Lux you are some what of a bully.
You seem to have a comprehension problem. Lux wrote this in post #87 -
I apologize, it’s obvious you are not hostile in the least.
Being of a charitable disposition and not in the least hostile, I will refrain from demanding that you apologise. However, should your conscience trouble you enough to make you do so, I will, of course, understand. :rolleyes:
Just a question. Why are you so worried about lobbyists,
And who says I’m ‘so worried’ about lobbyists? I do worry that they circumvent the democratic process and anyone living in a democracy should be so worried. After all, they simply sell their services to the highest bidder. Even a time traveller like you should see a problem with that!
don’t you think Jesus will take care of it. Pray, Hope, and Don’t Worry - Pio;)
Are you inclined to think Jesus will interfere in a human political process? Or come down in His regal splendour to set things right? Or perhaps He leaves men to decide moral questions on their own? After all, He did give Peter the right to ‘bind and loose’ on Earth, something which you seem to have entirely forgotten. Imagine if Peter and the other Apostles had said “Oh, Jesus will take care of it.” Why, they’d still be back in Galilee catching fish.
 
wink wink nudge nudge know whatcha mean.
So you took Wellok’s place, whose status now is banned, I notice.
But on a daily and I say daily basis I find in most Christian churches a general hatred of homosexuals. (Call it what you will)I am a Christian former Catholic and this forum helped to drive me away. It is the very zeal that did the driving. Your zeal, to say things thinking that our Lord and our God wants you to say it. It is no better than nationalism, mine is better than yours. It will fail every time. The zeal to end abortion is wonderful but your zeal to end all war… where is it? It is the same point that needs to be made with the anti-homosexual point of view. You sanctify all life, but if that person is not living their life as you think God wants them to, you publicly decry them. It is none of your business.
Let’s keep the focus on what homosexuals really want which is the OP, not on your generalized disagreement with all things Catholic.

Do you know of any Catholic who stands outside a homosexual pair’s bedroom telling they are sinning? The public outcry is about the unrelenting efforts by homosexual activists to normalize homosexual acts and against gay Catholics who create scandal as defined upthread. The public outcry is the gay agenda’s movement to legalize SS"M" and to adopt kids through organizations including Catholic operated agencies.

It is the business of Catholics to speak up. What is your business, pray tell, as a self identified Cathar who is against the Pope and rejects the authority of the Catholic Church, in coming on to this Catholic forum, in the Moral Theology subforum, to tell Catholics off? Have you bothered to look and read the stated mission of the forum?
,
 
hey what up
to a poster who said the homo rampant sexual urges. Just turn around and see the rampant hetro sexual urges out there. Its all geared for it. Just dont be so shallow as to say thats it. They want a non spiritual society so no one would reflect on their lifestyle. But we must really look at ours before we can try to change spmeone elses. We are quick to judge. As catholics we dont do as we are supposed to but are quick to correct others. Jesus said take the plank out of your eye before you can take the sliver out of your brothers!
 
You are intentionally avoiding the use of common sense.

Does the Church honestly have to approve a list of banned articles of clothing before you will exercise a modicum of discretion? Do I need to tell you that wearing a miniskirt in Church is inappropriate before you do it, or did you have the good sense and prudence to know that without my saying it?

People are equipped to make these judgements. You make them every Sunday when you decide what to wear for Mass.

Again, I can’t comment on the specific articles of clothing that he wore, but he admitted they were problematic. Apparently his clothing was so un-subtle that he stuck out like a sore thumb. At a minimum, Sunday-best should be conservative and understated (I wear khakis and a button down shirt) it should not draw attention to oneself, but I think you already knew this, Allegra.
Yes, I’m asking you what specific items of clothing gives someone the right to ridicule a stranger in a church. You keep talking about miniskirts and revealing dresses. These are obviously revealing and don’t meet the standards of modesty. It’s not necessary to make a list because there is a very clear cut standard. If I can see your buisness, it’s not appropriate for church. The level of “gayness” of most men’s clothing is far more subjective than that and you know it.
 
ok I’m sorry but this is ridiculous I’m so confused, you see what i got from this is that you all think that homosexuality is wrong. you seem to think its a choice that is made by people seeking attention and you feel that you can use long words to push your beliefs onto others. I completely respect your opinions but i can’t disagree with them more! you see if you think its a choice then i ask you this could you all be gay? if we have Rampant urges than what do you call 90% of men out there if revealing clothing is worn what do you call all those women walking around in shot shorts that reveal there legs so mush the pockets pop out the bottoms!
if you think that its homosexuals that are trying to destroy society then wake up!
G
P
 
It’s rather obvious I’m a homosexual/gay/same-sex attracted (to be sensitive to everyone’s terms). Let’s put it this way. I am stereotypical. Connect the dots from there.

People see me and they like to talk. Although I’m working on trying to overhaul the way I dress, act, and appear in public its very difficult and an expensive process. I have to buy more neutral clothing that is more… Less campy and flashy… I have to change my hairstyle.

I’m a target. So yes I do have a sign in some respects. And that leads to all the problems.
I think you will be fine. If you were at my church I’d be happy to sit in a pew with you as I would with any chaste, single Christian.
 
ok I’m sorry but this is ridiculous I’m so confused, you see what i got from this is that you all think that homosexuality is wrong. you seem to think its a choice that is made by people seeking attention and you feel that you can use long words to push your beliefs onto others. I completely respect your opinions but i can’t disagree with them more! you see if you think its a choice then i ask you this could you all be gay? if we have Rampant urges than what do you call 90% of men out there if revealing clothing is worn what do you call all those women walking around in shot shorts that reveal there legs so mush the pockets pop out the bottoms!
if you think that its homosexuals that are trying to destroy society then wake up!
G
P
Are you surprised that there is a concensus on a Catholic forum that homosexuality is wrong? After all, it IS a Church teaching. I don’t think anyone is arguing that having a same sex attraction is a choice. It is obvious, however, that choosing to engage in immoral sexual activity IS a choice and that is what is a sin. On that, I think most of us are agreed. Homosexuals probably are not trying to destroy society, however, they are most definatly trying to change it and I don’t think the change is good for the most part.
 
ok I’m sorry but this is ridiculous I’m so confused, you see what i got from this is that you all think that homosexuality is wrong. you seem to think its a choice that is made by people seeking attention and you feel that you can use long words to push your beliefs onto others. I completely respect your opinions but i can’t disagree with them more! you see if you think its a choice then i ask you this could you all be gay? if we have Rampant urges than what do you call 90% of men out there if revealing clothing is worn what do you call all those women walking around in shot shorts that reveal there legs so mush the pockets pop out the bottoms!
if you think that its homosexuals that are trying to destroy society then wake up!
G
P
And to add to what Allegra wrote to you, no-one thinks that homosexuals all by themselves are trying to destroy society. However, the liberalising of all morality, including that which allows girls to wear ultra tight shorts and that which helps to destroy marriages, is also what is destroying society. A society, any society, needs a moral code to hold itself together as a society. If you trash the moral code, then society will indeed fall apart. The only thing left to hold a society together is whatever laws a government passes and they can be anything, because the morality which used to constrain governments is also gone.
 
wink wink nudge nudge know whatcha mean.
You seem to forget that, apart from the Apostles and other believers, everyone else marganilized themselves from Jesus. Jesus came along because just about everyone had marginalised themselves from God.

Just like the Cathars marginalised themselves from the Church.

nidge nudge, wink wink, say no more to the last of his kind. :rolleyes:
 
But no matter how much you love someone it will not get them to heaven. I will always try to love my wife and family to heaven, but understand that I fall far short of what Jesus did for us on that cross, regardless.

I am glad you are not condemning anyone or judging God surely appreciates it.
No one can “love someone to heaven.” That’s the stuff of the sloppy ignorant products of Hollywood. This is the sort of thing you eat popcorn by. This sort of thing makes no sense in Christian theology.

If you love someone enough to CONVINCE them to repent, actually CHANGE their ways, ACCEPT God and LIVE a good Christian Catholic life, then they might get to heaven. But just loving them, no. Not a chance. None of this is really about emotion, particularly Hollywood-style emotion.

And if this person that you profess to love so much refuses, he chooses his fate and there’s nothing-not a thing-that you can do about it. They can do this, and they have a right to do this if they choose, and you can’t do anything about it except get ready to wave bye-bye when the time comes.

Christianity is not just a head trip. It’s also not just an emotional jag. It’s the turning of all a persons faculties–mind, heart, soul and body–toward God. This means that what you do makes a difference as much as what you think or feel. Human beings aren’t paper dolls, nor are they pets or robots.
 
And to add to what Allegra wrote to you, no-one thinks that homosexuals all by themselves are trying to destroy society. However, the liberalising of all morality, including that which allows girls to wear ultra tight shorts and that which helps to destroy marriages, is also what is destroying society. A society, any society, needs a moral code to hold itself together as a society. If you trash the moral code, then society will indeed fall apart. The only thing left to hold a society together is whatever laws a government passes and they can be anything, because the morality which used to constrain governments is also gone.
Actually, John, what you say is almost completely true. It’s true for the short to moderate run.

There are several things that dictate what is right and wrong to human beings that human beings totally can’t control-and never will be able to control. One of them is natural law, one of them is the inherent design of the human person which always allows him to refuse evil even in the face of apparent doom, and the largest one is the will of God which will not be mocked.

If you want to see all these things in action, all you have to do is study German history in the 20th century. Goodness wins every time no matter what human beings do to screw it up, and no matter what kind of BS happens in the short term. Backing the losing side is always futile, self-destructive and temporary.

Technical note: Believing that one can contravene natural law because it can be known fully, even if we only know part of it now, is called “logical positivism” in the parlance of professional philosophers. It’s an amateur’s argument. It rests on the concept of verificationism, which says that everything that exists can be verified by physical detection for that is the only way we could exhaust natural law and know it all. But of course you know that’s not true. Wasn’t it someone in here who was talking about the powers of “love”? So much for logical positivism.

These things are WHY, if governments are smart and responsible, they uphold the natural rule of law. If they don’t they meet their fates, and rather quickly.

But many Americans are as stupid as rocks, and never crack a history book. Some people have to learn the hard way. I’m hoping that disaster doesn’t happen right away, but it could happen. Yes. And if disaster strikes, the people who engage in these things will deserve every single temporal punishment they get on this earth for dabbling in the culture of death and destruction. It’s between God and them, after that.
 
If a person has a disordered affective problem, it’s something to be managed and controlled, yes. But it doesn’t mean that they are doomed or that they are doing anything wrong–PROVIDING that they don’t participate in what the disorder urges them to do. It’s only a particularly stubborn and bothersome disorder.

On the other hand, if they join in with the voices and actions of those who would try to push this disorder as normal, then they join the culture of death and destruction. Woe to them. They will suffer. If not in the short term, then in the long term.

And let no one be smug, just because they don’t happen to have this affliction, for we all have afflictions of one kind or another. Some have afflictions much more diffuse and therefore much harder to dig up and discard. Take heed. No one is inherently as good as God.
 
They want their disordered desires and actions to be mainstreamed, normalized, and approved of.
Yep, that’s about it. I was at Starbucks this afternoon and one of the baristas was a young woman who had her hair shaved nearly to the scalp. all over her head, except at the top. It kind of resembled haircuts male Marines wear. I assumed she was a lesbian – she seemed very nice, but yeah, I admit that I made an assumption about her, judging by her appearance and I couldn’t stop looking at her hair. Okay, yes, I shouldn’t be judgemental and I shouldn’t stare. She may very well feel that we should all accept that her look, as well as their behaviors as normal but I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it.
 
I think most homosexuals want to be accepted for who they are. What we should not have to affirm is same-sex marriage and rampant sexual promiscuity. I think people here on CAF have trouble accepting people who identify as gay or lesbian; or are content to just deal with their homosexual identity without therapy.

Here’s the basic principle you have to accept their homosexual orientation. But you don’t have to accept the behavior or agenda.
I don’t have a problem with people who have SSA, but I do have a problem with homosexual behaviors and agendas, AND the way some go out of their way to flaunt their orientation. Effeminate, flamoyant gay males and masculine females who tailor their appearance to look male.
 
Probably individual homosexuals really want to live “normal” lives. However, many of the loudest seem to feel that the only way that can happen is if they legally force everyone to acknowledge their lifestyles as normal, healthy, and moral. They seem to want to silence anyone who disagrees.
…And call them “homophobic,” a word I despise since “phobic” means a fear of something, not disapproval.
 
Well one time I heard a mother tell her kids not to sit next to me because I was a “deviant” and another time several people make offhanded comments jokes and comments about the way I walk or speak.

Granted this may be a general joke in general about homosexuals. I admit target is an overreaction. Maybe Im just being paranoid.
It just hurts my feelings.
May I ask you a question? Why do you and other gays dress and behave in a manner that tells people you’re gay?
 
May I ask you a question? Why do you and other gays dress and behave in a manner that tells people you’re gay?
Faith, we’ve been through this issue with mitex. Just keep reading through the thread. He has identified the problem himself and is attempting to rectify it as best he can. He’s doing OK.

And I totally agree with your opinion of how the pro-gays fling the epithet ‘homophobe’ at anyone who speaks out against their disordered lifestyle and against those who make a stand against them wanting to ram concepts like ‘gay marriage’ and gay adoption down our throats. Homophobe is an epithet and nothing more and it has been done to death.
 
I think I’ll just dress more… Normal…
Can you tell us exactly how it is that you’ve been dressing and behaving so that we have a clearer picture of what we’re talking about?
 
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