What is it with Protestants?

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PXseeker:
Not all.

Sad to say, many good people moved by the Spirit with good intentions were thrown out and declared heretics by men on thrones in the Vatican who had balck hearts and blacker souls.
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The Church has confessed openly that it did some mistakes in the past. Now it is seeking reconciliation. Although because of the separation some more issues has created wider differences, yet some dialogue and reconciliation talks and charitable actions hopefully still can preserve the unity of the body as prayed by Jesus.

God bless.
 
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Annunciata:
Francisca,
It’s getting late and my old eyes are getting tired so I’ll have to take a closer look tomorrow. BTW, from what web site did you get this?
Annunciata
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You can find it anywhere. Just now I quickly “searched” it through Yahoo and pick one url.

The document is the output of Trent Council. It’s “the famous” one. Believe me.

I myself is catholic, but I disagree with many views that only boasting about merely men’s authority without willing to listen and even daring to refuse facts and new revelations from God.

We have to listen to The Truth with tremble, keep it in our hearts, ponder about it, meditate on it. May God the Holy Spirit guide us to the whole Truth for truely there are abundantly new revelations in The Church today, and some are really bring us down to our knees.

Hebrews 12:25-28
Becareful not to reject God when he speaks… His voice shook the earth, but now He says: “In this last time I will shake not only the earth but the heavens”. The words in the last time indicate the removal of everything that can be shaken, that is, created things, and only those that cannot be shaken will remain. Such is the Kingdom that we receive. Let us then be grateful and offer to God a worship pleasing to him with reverence and awe.

God bless.
 
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francisca:
You can find it anywhere. Just now I quickly “searched” it through Yahoo and pick one url.

The document is the output of Trent Council. It’s “the famous” one. Believe me.

I myself is catholic, but I disagree with many views that only boasting about merely men’s authority without willing to listen and even daring to refuse facts and new revelations from God.

We have to listen to The Truth with tremble, keep it in our hearts, ponder about it, meditate on it. May God the Holy Spirit guide us to the whole Truth for truely there are abundantly new revelations in The Church today, and some are really bring us down to our knees.

Hebrews 12:25-28
Becareful not to reject God when he speaks… His voice shook the earth, but now He says: “In this last time I will shake not only the earth but the heavens”. The words in the last time indicate the removal of everything that can be shaken, that is, created things, and only those that cannot be shaken will remain. Such is the Kingdom that we receive. Let us then be grateful and offer to God a worship pleasing to him with reverence and awe.

God bless.
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Which Canon is the one in question?
Annunciata
 
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robertaf:
…They are bored to death. … see priests who look bored and do not preach the fullness of truth that we have. They seem afraid to offend. They are luke warm, neither teaching sin and hell or the pure joy of the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit and the mansions prepared for us in Heaven.
…We wanted so badly to know why and what was missing in the Catholic Church. We got answers but no one cared. The kids were bored and were not hearing the Jesus message. Over and over I was told the same thing. They were going to be entertained and they would be back. THEY DIDN’T COME BACK.
…I have watched a young girl her in these forums who was so happy and full of joy over Life Teen Mass, be told how wrong she is. A teenager, in love with the Church!

Sorry, I just cannot go on. I am very sorry.
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The problems with youth seems universal. We loose a lot of kids right after Confirmation. They think they know everything so, no need for any more catechism classes. No, they have not left the Church, they just don’t see the need to know more about Christ.

Getting the youths into various youth groups is one good solution - Altar boys, Young Vincentians, Bible sharing, choir, etc.

We have even got the older youths to be involved in the Confirmation Camps where they act as mentors to the younger ones.

The Parish can organise more Church centered activities designed by youths for youths. Perhaps a musical group singing Gospel music; parish baseball, basketball, soccer teams; an acting group; Charismatic groups in my Parish draw more adults than youths though.

Perhaps there is not much we can do about indifferent priests. There is so much talk about democracy, correctness, respecting each other’s beliefs that they do not want to tell people that they are wrong.

Does your diocese conduct annual retreats for the priests? I think they need renewal as much as the rest of us.

Would appreciate the results of your survey if you can send me a private message…
 
I haven’t read every word of every post so if this has been covered plaese forgive me.

Lets face it. Being protestant is easy. You look for a church that beleives the same as you and everyone is happy. Abortion, devorce, confess to God, not having the embarrassment of actualy having to telling your sins to someone. If you don’t feel like going to church on Sunday no problem.
 
I’m an ex-evangelical Protestant who came into the Church April 10, 2004.

Definitely ignorance. Protestants center their lives around their church and are generally involved with church and church people 5-6 days/nights/week. They simply don’t have time to visit and learn about Catholicism. Also, many of them have involvments with their church that require their physical presence (Sunday School teacher, choir, nursery, musician, club leader, youth sponsor, etc.) and they won’t miss these commitments unless they are out of town or gravely ill.

Also, most Protestants are very happy in their churches and see no reason to look elsewhere.

BUT–one reason that we are forgetting–FAMILY!!

I think there are Protestants who WOULD LOOK and probably be willing to leave the Protestant Church, except for their FAMILY. They don’t want to hurt Mom and Dad and the rest of the family, and they know that a decision to leave their church and become Catholic would create a family war. So they keep the peace. I personally think this is actually somewhat Biblical–blessed are the peacemakers. But…?!
 
Annuciata:

I think this is a good dialogue.

While Our Lord wants us as one, we are people with failings. Our fragmented nature leads us to disputes. In the early church there were protests and rancor. It was not a happy community with one soul ,one heart: Paul complained about Cephas and Apollos. His condemnation of the other Christians “poaching” in his territory was tantamount to a declaration of heresy against them. Throughout history there have been dissenters and many were cast out as heretics. The Reformation succeeded because of political powers looking to reign in the secular power of Rome.

I also think that Our Lord knew this would happen and that the Spirit nutures us in all Christian churches. A number of groups are breaking down barriers, not by merging, but by entering into official communion with the other churches, The Episcopal church and Lutheran -ELCA have gone beyond this to pulpit sharing and common missions.

What better way for Christian saints to join together than to share communion? I pray that someday the Catholic church will join these efforts as well. It may sound impossible to many folks here, but Christianity is about doing the impossible, the absurd.

Peace,
John
 
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PXseeker:
Annuciata:

What better way for Christian saints to join together than to share communion? I pray that someday the Catholic church will join these efforts as well. It may sound impossible to many folks here, but Christianity is about doing the impossible, the absurd.
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Hi John,
Indeed it is a good dialogue…I just pray that all will be as charitable
as you have been. All I can say here is we need to continue our prayers “That they all may be one”… God Bless, Annunciata:)
 
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Annunciata:
Which Canon is the one in question?
Annunciata
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Francisca,
Never mind I have started a new thread on this suject in Apologetics called Council of Trent: Canons on Justification.

Thanks for your respones. In Christ, Annunciata:)
 
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bob:
I agree and your order seems correct too.

I once spent some hours in the cockpit of a DC10 flying between Hong Kong and Honolulu debating the Catholic Faith with two Protestant pilots.

The number one problem is the hearsay errors they had heard about the Catholic Church. e.g. Papal infallibility.

No 2 is stubborness. They kept insisting that an unmarried priest, even with training, is not able to understand marriage sufficiently to counsel a married couple.
Counter 1: “Do you need to be a woman to be a gynaecologist?”
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Actually, the fact that a priest is not married makes him an excellent counselor to married couples because he does not have the social prejudices/preconscieved notion about the genders that a married counselor (man or woman) may have.
 
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MrS:
On point #1, you say you confess the Real Presence. But since your ministers are not ordained with Apostolic Succession, what they do, or claim to do, is only symbolic on its face. On point #2 Only part of Luther’s problems… He had a fixation with sin and couldn’t deal with the concept of true forgivness (we are dung heaps…) And he wanted to marry, eventually married a nun and had 6 kids.
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Two things.

Until VII, the RCC taught that ONLY the RCC had Apostolic Succesion, and the the Eastern Orthodox, Old Catholic, etc did not because they were not in communion with the bishop of Rome. Now, in the Roman Catholic missal it says that the EO DO have valid rites, and can commune. There are even Roman Catholics (admitadly rad traddies), who deny that the current bishops and priest have valid succesion of they use Novus Ordo mass.

Second, Luther didn’t want to marry his wife at first. There were a number of nuns who wanted out of the convent. He and others helped smuggle them out, (in barrels if I remember right) and then worked to have them married in order to blend in.

Katie was to stubborn to marry any one. Martin asked her one day who she would marry, and she said “You”. That stunned him, but in a few years they were married.

As for why those of us who are not Catholic remain that way, I can say personally that there are to many things that don’t line up for. I could not be RC, because after researching the theology there are areas that I have major problems with. It would be dishonest to go to RCIA and join something that after prayer and reflection I don’t believe.
 
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RedGolum:
As for why those of us who are not Catholic remain that way, I can say personally that there are to many things that don’t line up for. I could not be RC, because after researching the theology there are areas that I have major problems with. It would be dishonest to go to RCIA and join something that after prayer and reflection I don’t believe.
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Thanks for your honesty. It is refreshing, as is your presentation.

I think I can understand your feeling of “dishonesty” to go to RCIA. Unfortunately (for the RCC) there are not a lot of good programs that could respond to your concerns… so I would advise against the RCIA for that reason, and because you seem more responsive to a higher level of discussion.

I read with interest your reason… “after prayer and reflection”.

I have come to learn that good apologetics is not a presentation of prayer and reflection. It is certainly begun with prayer (what good effort isn’t?).
Apologetics is a presentation of Truth in such a way that the Truth/Belief is reasonable to the receiver. I don’t know which concerns you have, but I wonder if what the Church teaches has been presented to you in the combination of Faith&Reason. There is not a Catholic alive who can convert you or anyone…that is God’s job. All we can and must do is “go therefore and teach all nations…”, not encourage others to just pray and reflect. After the teaching, or sharing, God will determine when the eyes are opened.
Secondly, I often look for the chance to learn what others believe and I look for a level of “reason” in the theology presented. That then becomes the starting point of discussion.

Again, thanks for sharing

MrS
 
Its not like when protestants wake up in the morning they think, “Today, I am going to protest the Catholic Church.” No. They put their pants on one leg at a time like the rest of you. Like us, theyre worried about putting food on the table, raising their children with morals, getting to work on time, etc. They are not ‘protesting’ conciously and I dont think it’s fair to catagorize them as being ignorant, apathetic, or stubborn.

When I was a protestant I never gave the Catholic Church a second thought, and when I did it wasnt a good one because it was mostly Catholics telling me that my church wasnt a “real” church. Who were they to tell me that? They’re lucky I looked past their pretention and decided to join anyway.

You know what, if they are happy serving God the way that they do, then so be it. If they dont want to join the Catholic Church then they’ll have to take it up with God. The best thing we can do it receive them in love and try to educate them about the church with out being condescending and judgmental.
 
I think it’s because they misunderstand the faith mostly. The perfect example are the protestants who come to this room. They make arguments that don’t represent the Catholic faith at all, and then, they expect us to answer to them, when they really didn’t put anything relavent or true on the table to work with. When people argue politics, they don’t get a whole bunch of people that don’t know what they’re talking about, they get people who are into politics and know about it. The same thing goes for arguing the Catholic faith. Insurance companies sell insurance, but you should know about insurance so your company doesn’t wind up selling groceries. It’s the same thing when arguing the Catholic faith. You have to know the basic aspects of what you’re arguing. That’s why before people come here to argue, they should either go to www.catholic.com, or they should at least go to the apologetics forum before anything else. Most of the time, people aren’t really sure of what they hear through through the grapevine about the Catholic faith, but they throw it at you anyway. I’ve heard protestants argue about 4, 5, and 14 books in the deuterocanon, when there’s 7.
 
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PXseeker:
#2 - Luther never left on his own and started a church. Luther asked for reforms - radical things like Mass in the language of the people and allowing consecrated wine to be served at communion to the laity (it was reserved exclusively for priests). Luther wanted the Church to reform, the pope wallowing in secular corruption, threw Luther out and so this small group of reformers continued on their way, believing Rome had left them, not the other way around.
Peace,
John
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John

Luther may well have had good reason to leave, or maybe he was unrightfully kicked out - I don’t know my history as well as I should HOWEVER, either way, he should have continued on in his faith - not set out and start a new one with very significant differences. That is the problem I have with Luther.
 
Little Mary:
John

Luther may well have had good reason to leave, or maybe he was unrightfully kicked out - I don’t know my history as well as I should HOWEVER, either way, he should have continued on in his faith - not set out and start a new one with very significant differences. That is the problem I have with Luther.
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Little Mary,

The differences aren’t that significant, IMO.

John
 
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PXseeker:
Little Mary,

The differences aren’t that significant, IMO.

John
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This may well turn into a history lesson for me, but if you are saying that leaving behind the Real Presence, ripping books out of the bible, introducing Sola Scriptura and forsaking Sacred Tradition- all of which resulted in thousands turning away from the One True Church, The Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ aren’t that significant, I disagree.
 
II Paradox II:
You may also want to consider the possibility that some of us simply disagree with what the church teaches.

ken
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LOL…wierd how that hasn’t really been discussed.

~mango~
 
Little Mary:
OK mango, discuss it.
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What I mean by what I said is that…a lot of the times, Roman Catholics try to figure out “what’s wrong with us” and don’t even consider the idea that we might not have a “fear of the RCC” or “ignorance of the faith” or what have you. Some of us just don’t agree with some of your denomination’s teachings.

That being said, I will admit there is a lot of ignorance as to what the RCC actually believes/teaches among Protestant circles. I do believe, however, that the numbers change considering geographic setting.

~mango~
 
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