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Mystophilus
Guest
It is possible (I managed it), but not simple, and you do not need to be fast, just patient. When dealing with something this complex, do not feel that you need to rush. Take your time. God isn’t going anywhere.
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Lucy107
Guest
Could you point out which doubts you think Hahn and I have in common?
I’ve listened to about twenty minutes of the talk you link to, and found it utterly boring and uninteresting.
Given that he started off with a Christian background, it is not possible for his doubts to be like that of someone who never was any kind of Christian before.
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PJM
Guest
Thanks,
Keep in mind the Code of Canon Law is for Catholics, BY Catholics; not binding on the universal community of Christ believers.
God Bless you,
Patrick.
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PJM
Guest
On your first point I can AND WILL only pray for you!
On the second point the polar opposite is FAR closer to the truth. Forgiveness of sin GOD"S WAY is sacramental Confession through an Ordained Catholic Priest [following OT practice of using priest in this soul-saving role]
The recent innovations and inventions of all Protestant faiths =“to protest” are only mortal men’s musings.
1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”
My friend the ONLY unforgivable sin is denial of God. Period
So as soon as #1 is resolved quickly get on to #2:thumbsup:
God Bless you and protect you and your’s!
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
Adding to a GREAT post:thumbsup:Please don’t feel sorry for yourself or pity yourself. If you truly believe that you are called to the Faith, then do whatever it takes to get there. You will “catch up”, you will find your way, you will make friends, and you will feel at home and comfortable here. Do not treat Catholicism as just another denomination, instead know that it is the end of your journey, the culmination of it all. It’s home…
SADLY while that ought to be true;“that Catholics ARE better informed”] its very far from reality. Our Church had for a period of MANY post-Vatican II years has done a poor job of evangelization, therefore their are very many Catholics who too are in great need of being fully and rightly informed I’m a trained and certified Teacher of Our Catholic Faith with 20+ years of experience. .
God Bless you,
Patrick
This was a key motive for my developing a TOTALLY FREE OF ALL COST home study e-mailed course that I offer to all. I also answer privately all faith questions.
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ptisme
Guest
He was finding that the more he studied the Catholic faith the more he felt attracted to it. Yet he came from a very anti-Catholic back ground and had doubts he was on the right path. Most of his protestant friends left him and his wife nearly divorced him… What you have in common is resistance. PS, I’m sorry, I thought you were protestant. This video to me was very interesting as it was a life long atheist turned Catholic. Perhaps you could relate to some of what she went through?: youtube.com/watch?v=sXmX8NrpaLE
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PJM
Guest
:
QUOTE]Originally Posted by dronald
For me, it’s what God is doing through the Church I’m involved with. It’s hard to believe it’s just a giant heresy with all the good it does while maintaining conservative, Biblical teachings and shows great love.
Is it from God or Satan or just nothing? If it’s from God, then it’s good. If it’s from Satan then it’s evil. If it’s from nothing, then why doesn’t God be a little more clear that He wants all of us to become Catholic?
God is able to use anyone of Faith and is able to read our hearts and REAL intentions.
While ALL Protestant faihts Do hold some untrue [and frankly unsupportable beliefs] they also hols onto some very Critically Important beliefs: One True God; the Trinity and Christian Baptism [John 3:5] all come to mind.
However that said; one needs to ask if that “truly sufficient” for ones own salvation…
And the answer is perhaps BUT not necessarily; maybe not even likely for most non-catholic s…
From the Catholic Catechism:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.*** Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.***
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation
ALL salvation does, indeed MUST flow through the Catholic Church as it IS the One True Church founded by God and enable to teach the TRUTH of How salvation might conditionally be possible. Mt 10: 1-8; Mt. 16: 15-19, John 17:11-26, Mk. 16:14-15 & Mt. 28: 16-20 if read carefully paying attention to whom Christ is Speaking exclusively and directly will see God’s intent clearly in the above passages. BUT this "flowing through} can be mysterious and God is a God of Mercy and Love.
Still for those exposed to the truth; it becomes incumbent on them to seek and embrace it.
God Bless you,
Patrick
.
QUOTE]Originally Posted by dronald
For me, it’s what God is doing through the Church I’m involved with. It’s hard to believe it’s just a giant heresy with all the good it does while maintaining conservative, Biblical teachings and shows great love.
Is it from God or Satan or just nothing? If it’s from God, then it’s good. If it’s from Satan then it’s evil. If it’s from nothing, then why doesn’t God be a little more clear that He wants all of us to become Catholic?
I thin k “heresy” is too strong of a word in THIS context.
God is able to use anyone of Faith and is able to read our hearts and REAL intentions.
While ALL Protestant faihts Do hold some untrue [and frankly unsupportable beliefs] they also hols onto some very Critically Important beliefs: One True God; the Trinity and Christian Baptism [John 3:5] all come to mind.
However that said; one needs to ask if that “truly sufficient” for ones own salvation…
And the answer is perhaps BUT not necessarily; maybe not even likely for most non-catholic s…
From the Catholic Catechism:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.*** Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.***
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation
ALL salvation does, indeed MUST flow through the Catholic Church as it IS the One True Church founded by God and enable to teach the TRUTH of How salvation might conditionally be possible. Mt 10: 1-8; Mt. 16: 15-19, John 17:11-26, Mk. 16:14-15 & Mt. 28: 16-20 if read carefully paying attention to whom Christ is Speaking exclusively and directly will see God’s intent clearly in the above passages. BUT this "flowing through} can be mysterious and God is a God of Mercy and Love.
Still for those exposed to the truth; it becomes incumbent on them to seek and embrace it.
God Bless you,
Patrick
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ptisme
Guest
PS, Lucy: You don’t have to kick out your child’s father or marry him to start on the road to Catholicism. It’s not like you have to live a pius life as a litmus to becoming Catholic. Why not take the RCIA classes and see where it leads you. You don’t become holy THEN start a relationship with Christ. You start a relationship with Christ and THEN you will want to be holy God Bless and I’ll keep you in my prayers:thumbsup:
God Bless and I’ll keep you in my prayers:thumbsup:
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PJM
Guest
Hi Lucy, I AM the “OP”
Please send me a private message so we can talk privately:thumbsup:
Your in my thoughts and prayers,
Patrickl [PJM] here on CAF
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PJM
Guest
=ptisme;12761533]I would say keep it simple:
- Ask God to forgive you.
- Pray for guidance then listen quietly
- Read the Word. New Testment probably better at first
- Know that you are one of Gods children and he will always love you and wants you to come home with him
- No Catholic can save you. It’s up to you to accept Christ into your life. Once you do that you will have peace
THANK YOU!
Very nicely done
Patrick
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ptisme
Guest
.From the Catholic Catechism:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.*** Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.***
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation
ALL salvation does, indeed MUST flow through the Catholic Church as it IS the One True Church founded by God and enable to teach the TRUTH of How salvation might conditionally be possible. Mt 10: 1-8; Mt. 16: 15-19, John 17:11-26, Mk. 16:14-15 & Mt. 28: 16-20 if read carefully paying attention to whom Christ is Speaking exclusively and directly will see God’s intent clearly in the above passages. BUT this "flowing through} can be mysterious and God is a God of Mercy and Love.
Still for those exposed to the truth; it becomes incumbent on them to seek and embrace it.
God Bless you,
Patrick
.
The “church” is referring to Christ’s Church=All Christians. Not the Catholic Church. As I read that.
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.*** Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.***
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation
ALL salvation does, indeed MUST flow through the Catholic Church as it IS the One True Church founded by God and enable to teach the TRUTH of How salvation might conditionally be possible. Mt 10: 1-8; Mt. 16: 15-19, John 17:11-26, Mk. 16:14-15 & Mt. 28: 16-20 if read carefully paying attention to whom Christ is Speaking exclusively and directly will see God’s intent clearly in the above passages. BUT this "flowing through} can be mysterious and God is a God of Mercy and Love.
Still for those exposed to the truth; it becomes incumbent on them to seek and embrace it.
God Bless you,
Patrick
.
The “church” is referring to Christ’s Church=All Christians. Not the Catholic Church. As I read that.
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PJM
Guest
Lucy, if you can be specific on these verses I MIGHT be able to help you
PLEASE
carefully consider these passages, Thank you!2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 “Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability
2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 “You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
John 5: 37 “And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen; and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life [Speaking of accepting the entire WORD of GOD]. I do not receive glory from men .[Meaning disobedience is rampant!] But I know that you have not the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me” [Obey Me!]
God Bless you,
Patrick
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steve_b
Guest
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cmodrmac
Guest
I enjoy the dialog ( for the most part) -there are some witty members (GKC for example)
I love my Church and the people at my local Parish -I do not want to be a protesting member of a Church but a full participant-
CJM
I love my Church and the people at my local Parish -I do not want to be a protesting member of a Church but a full participant-
CJM
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Lucy107
Guest
Resistance?
I don’t feel like I am being resistant - although I know many Christians see me that way.
I find that I don’t have sufficient knowledge of Catholicism (nor do I think that one can gather such sufficient knowledge as an outsider) to decide one way or another.
That’s not resistance.
I am also not an atheist - although I know many theists see me that way.
I think labels like “atheist” are inadequate to describe an actual person; people are simply too complex to be subsumed with one simplistic label.
Interestingly, I have noticed in discussion of religion on the internet something odd: Of all the theists (of different religions) I know or who have participated, noone of them considered me a theist. But many atheists have considered me a theist. And this in conversations which both took part in, both theists and atheists saw the same things I said, and yet they came to so different conclusions about me.
I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone. I know the Catholics. I have reason to believe that things would not go well if I showed up at church. I don’t have the trust that God would somehow change the hearts of people there for my sake.
The territorial principle was enforced here last I checked: that is, a person must on principle attend the church in the parish of residence. I have less than a ten minute walk from home to the church, and I don’t work on Sundays. So I have no legitimate excuse. I’ve been to mass in a bigger city a few times; things there are quite anonymous and formal. So that’s better. But it’s also a bit lonely, no opportunity to really ask anyone anything.
I mean, Catholicism seems nice enough here at these forums, and especially in relation to American culture, with all that American “You can do it!”
But here in rural Europe, Catholicism seems connected to a kind of country club mentality.
Thank you.
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Lucy107
Guest
The advice you praise here - have you any idea how foreign it is to some people? Most of those points I can do nothing with.
You ask in the OP why people don’t become Catholic. One reason is because they get advice they don’t understand and can’t implement. And if they point this out, chances are the advice-giver is going to knock them down.
I’ve listened to his reading of the Gospel of Matthew.
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ptisme
Guest
I have an observation to make that may help you but please don’t take it as an insult. In reading your posts I see the terms “i” and “me” used an awful lot. When I was able to really turn the corner with my conversion was when I left the world centered on self and put my life’s pathway in Gods hands. In other words when I find things in life that are difficult to bear I pray about it and put it in Gods hands. Makes life much more bearable.
Remember when Peter was outside of the boat walking on water? As long as he kept his focus on Jesus, he was able to continue. As soon as he focused on the storm around him he began to sink. So too in life:thumbsup:
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ptisme
Guest
Which points can you do nothing with?
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Lucy107
Guest
I deliberately use this form; it’s the assertive communication style, as opposed to an aggressive, passive, or passive-aggressive one.
The aim of making I-messages is to own whatever I say, take responsibility for whatever I feel and say, and not blame others.
Assertiveness isn’t selfishness. In fact, assertiveness is aimed to avoid selfishness.
That then requires a specific doctrinal conviction.
Such as that God loves me, wants to help me, cares about me. I don’t believe any of that.
In one sense, when being assertive, one is taking the whole existential and epistemic burden upon one’s own shoulders. “Letting go and letting God” goes straight against that.
One could “let go and let God” only if one is somehow convinced that God would, will, and does. I don’t have that conviction.
- Status