What is Oral Tradition

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HailMary said:
Funny that you say Eve, did so, the the ECFs consensus is that the majority of the blame was on Adam since it was his job to “till and guard”.
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Well, we all agree Eve was the one who took the first bite and then offered it to Adam who also took a bite. But God blamed Adam because he was the head and he was over Eve so he took the ultimate blame:thumbsup:

Kinda like when something goes wrong within the government the President has to take responsability because He is in charge.
 
SolaScriptura said:
First of all, Eve was not born, she was created from one of Adam’s rib. Second, Eve did sin. The Immaculate Conception not only states Mary was born without sin, but she never sinned. Well, I have some bad news and some good news. Good news first. Christ died for the ungodly. Bad news, based on Catholicism’s teaching Mary was not ungodly, therefore she has no Savior. Third, more good news. Good thing is that Catholicism is wrong and Mary is saved and blessed amongst all women!
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If you have a keen eye in Holy Scripture you will see just how important and glorious the Blessed Virgin Mary is.

She is the Living Ark of the New Covenant. Do you know what the Ark of the Covenant meant to the choosen people, the people of God? Do you know how big of a role it played in the Divine Pedagagy which God used?

The Ark had two Golden Cherubim angels, looking at each other, and spreading their wings. The Ark was central in the way God communicated to the people of Isreal through Moses:

Exoodus 25:22:
Thence will I give orders, and will speak to thee over the propitiatory, and from the midst of the two cherubims, which shall be upon the ark of the testimony, all things which I will command the children of Israel by thee.
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Mark is the New Ark:

2 Sam 6:1-11 and Luke 1:39-43 & Luke1:59

These verses match blow for blow summarized in the following:
  1. The Ark moved from Galilee to Jerusalem (2 Sam:6:2)
    – the Blessed Virgin moved from Galilee to Jerusalem (Luke 1:39)
  2. David and the Isrealites made merry BEFORE the Lord ( 2 Sam 6:5)
    – St. Elizabeth made merry BEFORE the Lord (Jesus in the Womb of His dear mother) (Luke 1:41-42)
  3. David confessing “How can the ark of the LORD come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)
    – St. Elizabeth confessing "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
  4. The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite for three month ( 2 Sam 6:11)
    – Mary remained with St. Elizabeth about three months (Luke 1:56)
Therefore, the Ark of the Covenant prefigured the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The Ark contained the manna, the staff of Aaron, and the Law which were fulfilled in Jesus(Hebrews 9:4); Jesus is the Bread of Life, the Eucharst; Jesus is the staff of Aaron, liberation from Sin; and Jesus is the Law, the Word of God.

Mary contained Jesus in her womb for 9 months. She is the only person that can look at the cross and say “flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone”.

Furthermore, in Revelations 11:19 we read the following:
“Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.”

Guess what the Sacred writer is leading into?

Revelations 12:1:
“A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.”

Try looking more deeply into this.

catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9112fea1.asp

This was nice.

God Bless
 
Lampo said:
Okay, Eve was created sinless. Just wanted to show that Scriptural precedent was set. Could God have created Mary sinless if He wanted?
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Of course. God could do anything he wants, well not anything, he cannot lie. However, he could have created me sinless … hmmm … I like the sound of that. Another Immaculate Conception. But once again a sinless person doesn’t need a savior because he dies for the ungodly.
 
And…God put enmity between Mary & Satan(Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant.) - Gen. 3:15

So, if Mary sinned, wouldn’t that put her on Satan’s side?
 
HailMary said:
If you have a keen eye in Holy Scripture you will see just how important and glorious the Blessed Virgin Mary is.

She is the Living Ark of the New Covenant. Do you know what the Ark of the Covenant meant to the choosen people, the people of God? Do you know how big of a role it played in the Divine Pedagagy which God used?

The Ark had two Golden Cherubim angels, looking at each other, and spreading their wings. The Ark was central in the way God communicated to the people of Isreal through Moses:

Exoodus 25:22:

Mark is the New Ark:

2 Sam 6:1-11 and Luke 1:39-43 & Luke1:59

These verses match blow for blow summarized in the following:
  1. The Ark moved from Galilee to Jerusalem (2 Sam:6:2)
    – the Blessed Virgin moved from Galilee to Jerusalem (Luke 1:39)
  2. David and the Isrealites made merry BEFORE the Lord ( 2 Sam 6:5)
    – St. Elizabeth made merry BEFORE the Lord (Jesus in the Womb of His dear mother) (Luke 1:41-42)
  3. David confessing “How can the ark of the LORD come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)
    – St. Elizabeth confessing "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
  4. The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite for three month ( 2 Sam 6:11)
    – Mary remained with St. Elizabeth about three months (Luke 1:56)
Therefore, the Ark of the Covenant prefigured the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The Ark contained the manna, the staff of Aaron, and the Law which were fulfilled in Jesus(Hebrews 9:4); Jesus is the Bread of Life, the Eucharst; Jesus is the staff of Aaron, liberation from Sin; and Jesus is the Law, the Word of God.

Mary contained Jesus in her womb for 9 months. She is the only person that can look at the cross and say “flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone”.

Furthermore, in Revelations 11:19 we read the following:
“Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.”

Guess what the Sacred writer is leading into?

Revelations 12:1:
“A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.”

Try looking more deeply into this.

catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9112fea1.asp

This was nice.

God Bless
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I could disagree with a lot of that, but it is not necessary at this point, because none of this proves she was sinless.
 
Lampo said:
And…God put enmity between Mary & Satan(Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant.) - Gen. 3:15

So, if Mary sinned, wouldn’t that put her on Satan’s side?
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What??? :confused: I’m not following you here my friend.
 
SolaScriptura said:
What??? :confused: I’m not following you here my friend.
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Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” This refers to Jesus (the “emnity”) and Mary (the “woman”). The phrase “her seed” (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

Thus, if Mary had ever sinned, she would be on the side of Satan.
 
Lampo said:
Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” This refers to Jesus (the “emnity”) and Mary (the “woman”). The phrase “her seed” (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

Thus, if Mary had ever sinned, she would be on the side of Satan.
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If the criteria for being on the side of satan is commiting even just one sin, than I guess Pope JPII and Pope Benedict are both on the side of satan?

Come to think of it, that means I am on the side of satan.
 
Reformed1 said:
If the criteria for being on the side of satan is commiting even just one sin, than I guess Pope JPII and Pope Benedict are both on the side of satan?

Come to think of it, that means I am on the side of satan.
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At the time of committing sin, one is on the side of Satan. Choosing Satan over God.
 
Reformed1 said:
If the criteria for being on the side of satan is commiting even just one sin, than I guess Pope JPII and Pope Benedict are both on the side of satan?

Come to think of it, that means I am on the side of satan.
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A reason for the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
 
Lampo said:
At the time of committing sin, one is on the side of Satan. Choosing Satan over God.
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But that doesn’t forever mean you are a minion of satan does it?

PS
I’ve always wanted to use the word “minion” in sentence.
 
Prophesied in Genesis 3:15 – “And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

Recognized as fulfilled in the New Testament:

Jesus’ mother is called “woman” – John 2:4 and John 19:26

Mary is called “full of grace” - Luke 1:28

Elizabeth sees both Mary and her child as equally blessed – Luke 1:42

Tradition / History

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” (Origen, Homily 1 written AD 244).

“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.” (Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15.23 written in AD 370).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” (Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 written in AD 370).

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” (Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71,216 written ca AD 373).

“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” (Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] written in AD 415).
 
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