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shadow_fire
Guest
Theres no proof that these are “the truths of god” and if the bible should be said without anyone against the words then what about all of the passages in the bible that are anti-woman or pro-slavery?
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shadow_fire
Guest
Even if they ignite violence? are peoples lives really worth that one persons right to speak hate?
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Thanx for that!
But I wouldn’t be surprised that if it hasn’t been done already it will be in the works!
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Sabda
Guest
Anything can be called hate speech. Just as anything can be used as a weapon to kill. Does that mean everything should be banned because it can be used as a weapon? NO! Do I have a problem with someone preaching against black people? To be brutally honest, no. I’m not going to agree with what their saying but it is their constitutional right to do so. Now if they start beating them up and do all manner of violence to them that needs to stop immediately. My dad lives in Atlanta Georgia and he says the blacks there are extremely racist against the whites and no one stops them. Why, it’s their constitutional right.
We have the constitutional right to believe and say that homosexuality is wrong. That is being threatened with a bill that is not even constitutional. :hypno:
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Sabda
Guest
BINGO!! I don’t recall any Christian I know saying that we needed to do violence to homosexuals. We simple disagree with what they are doing. Those in Congress who are pushing this bill are saying we do not have the right to disagree. THAT is unconstitutional!
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Tom317
Guest
We do not need proofs. The Constitution protects religion and free speech. Do not forget that congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or **prohibiting the free exercise thereof./B]
We can talk all day about different passages in the Bible, yet that is not the purpose of this thread. If you can take my right of free speech away, then your can be taken away too. If you can take my expression of religion away, then I can take yours away too. It works both ways and we end-up in a huge mess.**
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shadow_fire
Guest
Actually the freedom of speech thing has been kind of blown over for a while. We don’t have the right and we could be thrown in jail for doing a hate crime against blacks yet not homosexuals. This seems incredibly unfair to me.
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Tom317
Guest
Yes! It is foundational. If some lunatic does violence, then it is their crime, not the person who spoke his views. And, btw, it is simply your view that speaking truths of the faith is hate, few people agree and frankly you are just flat wrong.
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KarenNC
Guest
As to
** "A California lawsuit which is headed to the U.S. Supreme Court would make the use of the words “natural family,” “marriage” and “union of a man and a woman” a “hate speech” crime in government workplaces. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled in favor of the plaintiffs! "**
This is a very misleading and inflammatory interpretation of the actual circumstances. I refer you to Snopes for info on this, the news coverage and the legislation
snopes.com/politics/sexuality/hatecrime.asp
Let’s look at the actual text of the bills discussed
Here is 1592
thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1592_ih.xml
and here is 1105
govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1105
“Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person–”
I see only mention of bodily injury. So, unless the ministers are planning to beat up, shoot or firebomb homosexuals from the pulpit, I have to say I don’t see the concern at this point.
Please cite from these bills the actual specific text that supports the following statements from the original post:
“House bill H.R. 1592 and Senate bill S. 1105 would make negative statements concerning homosexuality, such as calling the practice of homosexuality a sin from the pulpit, a “hate crime” punishable by law” or “A bill in Congress makes it a crime for pastors and churches to speak against homosexuality.”
** "A California lawsuit which is headed to the U.S. Supreme Court would make the use of the words “natural family,” “marriage” and “union of a man and a woman” a “hate speech” crime in government workplaces. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled in favor of the plaintiffs! "**
This is a very misleading and inflammatory interpretation of the actual circumstances. I refer you to Snopes for info on this, the news coverage and the legislation
snopes.com/politics/sexuality/hatecrime.asp
Let’s look at the actual text of the bills discussed
Here is 1592
thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1592_ih.xml
and here is 1105
govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1105
“Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person–”
I see only mention of bodily injury. So, unless the ministers are planning to beat up, shoot or firebomb homosexuals from the pulpit, I have to say I don’t see the concern at this point.
Please cite from these bills the actual specific text that supports the following statements from the original post:
“House bill H.R. 1592 and Senate bill S. 1105 would make negative statements concerning homosexuality, such as calling the practice of homosexuality a sin from the pulpit, a “hate crime” punishable by law” or “A bill in Congress makes it a crime for pastors and churches to speak against homosexuality.”
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Tom317
Guest
Wrong. If a person attacks a black or a homosexual they will go to jail for those crimes. If a person speaks a view that blacks or homosexuals do not like, that is not hate, it is an opinion and it is protected free speech.
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shadow_fire
Guest
No not just violence. Verbal harassment can be considered a hate crime too. And frankly I believe you are “just flat wrong”
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Here’s the bill…
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h.r.1592.rfs:
I don’t like hate crime laws… why? Because they make thoughts illegal. If a person commits a crime, there are already laws that cover the crime. To then presume that the crime is made worse because the criminal was having the ‘wrong thoughts’ is ridiculous. They were not having hate thoughts they would not have committed the crime.
For example every rape of a woman is a hate crime against women. Rape is done specifically to injure and humiliate a woman, to gain power over her. So I guess with this law every rape case needs to now become a hate crime. So now we can add more time to the sentence of every rapist.
The act of the crime is what needs to be punished… not a person’s thoughts.
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Tom317
Guest
Sure, if someone is intentionally attacking a person through verbal abuse, that is certainly wrong (though this **** about hate is nuts).
You want to have rights, but you do not want those rights to extend to people you do not like…now that is HATE. You would fight to keep your own rights because you think you are above the rest of us, yet you would likely laugh with glee if we lost out rights…not that is HATE!
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shadow_fire
Guest
Actually I don’t believe rape is to humiliate its more because the guys horny. And a straight guy will not rape a guy because he is straight and thus not attracted to guys. If for example a gay guy raped a woman then I would have to agree with you 100%
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Tom317
Guest
I am likely going to get very uncharitable. Therefore, I am leaving now before I do.
God Bless to all.
God Bless to all.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
He has called for violence and insighted the death of several people.
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Tom317
Guest
I saw this, so I am responding, then gone.
If he called for violence, that is a crime. Period.
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shadow_fire
Guest
You’ve got to be kidding me. I want the same rights for everyone. Hey even make it a hate crime to hate someone for there beliefs I’d be alright with that. But it really is YOU who wants the rights that work for you. Right now you cannot say certain things to black people yet you can commit a hate crime to a gay guy and its no foul. Everyone should have the same rights and one class shouldn’t be considered higher. After all is it really fair that I have to suffer homophobia at my school without anyone caring? its mindlessly unfair yet any other minority gets treatment to ensure they are treated fairly but the gays on the other hand can be thrown around like a rag doll and no one seems to care.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
So how many years in prison do think a person should get for speaking negtively about black people?
How many years for speaking negatively about white people?
What punishment do you think people should get?
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shadow_fire
Guest
This is an interesting question. I wish I was less ignorant in a topic like that to answer that question. All i know is for speaking against whites and blacks it should be the same and the punishment should vary depending on the degree of the hate.
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