I think that you better read it again. The gentiles heard his voice? I don’t think so. The gentiles heard his word but not voice. The other sheep according to lds doctrine would include the book of mormon peoples. The verse begins by stating: And other sheep I have which are not of this fold… A little change of direction of the previous verses. My point: verses can be interpretated and the lds have an interpretation.
When LDS pray, they pray to the father in the name of Christ. Thus, they would worship the Father through prayer. The lord’s prayer does the same by stating Our Father. But Parker is also right technically. The lds recognize Christ and his great sacrifice. Thus, there is a sense of worshipping.
He implied it. Mormons are in error. Thus, they run the risk of hell or a long state of purgatory.
Thanks. Interesting.
It is pretty much a given. You can attempt to find the reference yourself. And when I have time, I will try also.And no reference to back up this statement.
But Mcconkie is not saying that LDS worship Christ “in a sense” but the opposite of that.
Are you asking who wrote the Book of Mormonism? It was Joseph Smith.
Here is another reference:And no reference to back up this statement.
guy,
And there is something wrong with this where? I don’t see that he needs a lecture at all. On the other hand it does (yet again) show your lack of understanding of and disrespect for Catholic beliefs.He implied it. Mormons are in error. Thus, they run the risk of hell or a long state of purgatory.
John 10
Perhaps I can help provide some perspective to to McConkie’s words. Mormons are only following the pattern that Jesus provided in scripture. Jesus commanded us to “[w]orship the Father in spirit and in truth” (John 4:23). The pattern Jesus gave on how we should pray was “Our Father, who art in Heaven” (Matt. 6:9). Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is our Exemplar. We believe that during Jesus’ mortal ministry, He provided the perfect example of how we should live. A Mormon’s solemn duty and oath is to follow Jesus in all things, therefore we try to do those things He did. In all of His examples of prayer and of worship, He prayed to and worshipped the Father. His devotion was to the Father. He was doing the Father’s will. He did all things to glorify the Father. If this is the example Jesus provided us, then why would we not follow that pattern?
That is true. But that still does not explain verse 16 since he is talking about other sheep hearing his voice.
You are right. The poster who claimed that the mormon poster (and by implication all mormons) was in error and thus likely to be in hell or in purgatory was emotionally manipulative.And there is something wrong with this where? I don’t see that he needs a lecture at all. On the other hand it does (yet again) show your lack of understanding of and disrespect for Catholic beliefs.
As to the implication about your daughters, as you mentioned being LDS they would be in error, but you’re the one who dragged them in to the conversation to elicit sympathy. That’s emotional manipulation straight up.
Do you have proof that it was Joseph Smith? If so, can you please post it? And please don’t post speculation.
All of the men you quote have been Presidents, a prophet/seer/revelator which I suppose supersedes the words of an apostle. What I find odd is that his speech is published without noting that his statements are contrary to actual LDS beliefs. In the Catholic church if you teach something contrary to Catholic doctrine you’ll be called on it. The specific teaching will be condemned.Good evening zaffiroborant! How’ve you been? I hope well.
Perhaps I can help provide some perspective to to McConkie’s words. Mormons are only following the pattern that Jesus provided in scripture. Jesus commanded us to “[w]orship the Father in spirit and in truth” (John 4:23). The pattern Jesus gave on how we should pray was “Our Father, who art in Heaven” (Matt. 6:9). Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is our Exemplar. We believe that during Jesus’ mortal ministry, He provided the perfect example of how we should live. A Mormon’s solemn duty and oath is to follow Jesus in all things, therefore we try to do those things He did. In all of His examples of prayer and of worship, He prayed to and worshipped the Father. His devotion was to the Father. He was doing the Father’s will. He did all things to glorify the Father. If this is the example Jesus provided us, then why would we not follow that pattern?
Worship is not limited to the narrow perspective that seems to be on display with the Catholic audience in this thread. “All of life may be worshipful, as manifest in prayer and in devotion, in the ordinances of the gospel, including the Sacrament, in selfless service to mankind, and in the culmination of all worship in the temples of God” (E of M). Through the covenant of baptism and those made in the temples, Mormons consecrate all that they are and all that they have to God and to building up His kingdom. To worship also means “to work” and “to serve”. As we honor these covenants by participating in God’s work and serving others, we worship the Father and the Son. We show our love and devotion to Jesus by doing those things He did and by following His example. We are directly worshipping the Son when we obey His commandments and honor His name, which name Mormons have taken upon themselves in the covenant of baptism (D&C 20:77).
Lastly, consider these quotes from other LDS leaders to further give McConkie’s words perspective:
“Humbly I lay claim upon the Atonement of Christ. I find no shame in kneeling down in worship of our Father and His Son. For agency is mine, and this I choose to do!” (Boyd K. Packer)
“He [Jesus] is the central focus of our worship. He is the Son of the living God, the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten in the flesh” (Gordon B. Hinckley)
“Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is our Redeemer, and we worship him.” (Heber J. Grant)
“We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him” (The Living Christ: Testimony of the Apostles)
There really is no need to dispute this anymore. Mormons don’t always worship the same way as Catholics do, but it is an indisputable fact that we worship the Savior Jesus Christ. We love Him. We adore Him. We are in awe of Him. We know that our hope of salvation comes from Him. We recognize Him as our God. He is the Creator. He is our Master. We follow Him. Under oath and covenant we try to pattern our lives after His and try to do the things He did. If this isn’t worship, then worship is meaningless.
Kind Regards,
Finrock
Purgatory is not hell. Almost everyone winds up in purgatory – I expect I will be there for awhile as well. As for your daughters, I can’t judge their knowledge since they have been kept from the truths of Catholicism apparently. You are in a much poorer position since you claim to be Catholic while still proclaiming that Joseph Smith is a true prophet even when we have presented you with all the evidence you need to show you that he is a false prophet. You really don’t have an excuse to continue accepting Joseph Smith’s debunked Book of Mormon. In my opinion you may be in much more danger than your daughters are. Only God knows the motives behind your continued rejection of the Catholic faith. It’s impossible to proclaim Mormonism and Catholicism as truth at the same time if you are in your right mind. That I can’t judge.
Hey why me, thanks for the link. That is a great site. I had previosly used this site for that purpose, which is also good; but the one you have linked to looks even better.