What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?

[JonNC]

How ridiculous. The. Bible nowhere says that one man may save another by believing for them.

No, but the Bible does tell us that we receive the Spirit though Baptism. It is through the Spirit that we receive faith. “…Baptism now saves you.”

Jon

 

[pete_29]

You are misunderstanding me here, I didn’t mean to imply what you think. I accept that Catholics are Christians. I accept that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior of Catholics. Wow, I’m married to a Roman Catholic. Also your daughter Rachel is in my prayers.

In His Grace

Thank you for the prayers. God Bless You

 

[JMM1957]

No, but the Bible does tell us that we receive the Spirit though Baptism. It is through the Spirit that we receive faith. “…Baptism now saves you.”

Jon

Matt. 19:14, “Jesus said, let the children come to me and do not prevent them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. After he placed his hands on them, he went away.” All can come to Jesus, even children, even infants, no need to wait until the age of reason to be baptized, because of what baptism truly does for the person.

Baptism makes you an adopted child of God, a co-heir with Christ, a temple of the Holy Spirit, buries you with Christ, incorporates you into His Body, washes away sins, regenerates you.

By sanctifying grace (the grace of justification), the baptized:
Are enabled to believe in God, hope in him, and love him (theological virtues)
Can live according to the power of the Holy Spirit (the sanctifying gifts)
Can grow in goodness (the moral virtues)

 

[JonNC]

Matt. 19:14, “Jesus said, let the children come to me and do not prevent them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. After he placed his hands on them, he went away.” All can come to Jesus, even children, even infants, no need to wait until the age of reason to be baptized, because of what baptism truly does for the person.

Baptism makes you an adopted child of God, a co-heir with Christ, a temple of the Holy Spirit, buries you with Christ, incorporates you into His Body, washes away sins, regenerates you.

By sanctifying grace (the grace of justification), the baptized:
Are enabled to believe in God, hope in him, and love him (theological virtues)
Can live according to the power of the Holy Spirit (the sanctifying gifts)
Can grow in goodness (the moral virtues)

Amen.

Jon

 

[Porknpie]

Yes Patrick, you indeed are wrong. You are equating a persons not converting to Catholicism, not having faith in a church, with having a weak faith in our Creator and Savior. As a Protestant my faith in God has never been stronger.

God bless you as well.

In His Grace, can you answer why you converted from a Baptist to Lutheran?

Always like conversion stories of any type.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Thank you for the prayers. God Bless You

For you, your daughter, and family …

…The Lord is near. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:5-7)

God bless you as well.

 

[In_His_Grace]

In His Grace, can you answer why you converted from a Baptist to Lutheran?

Always like conversion stories of any type.

I have to go for now but the short version is studying Catholicism led me from Baptist to Lutheranism (LCMS). The scriptural and historical truth of the Lutheran Sacraments of Holy Communion, Baptism, and Holy Absolution, the law and Gospel concept of the Gospel, as well as their adherence to Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Solus Christus, and Soli Deo Gloria just to name a few points.

Gotta go.

In His Grace

 

[In_His_Grace]

In His Grace, can you answer why you converted from a Baptist to Lutheran?

Always like conversion stories of any type.

Hi again Porknpie,

In fairness and honesty to the Lutherans at CAF I only have a very basic understanding of what Lutherans believe. All of my time the last few years have been entirely devoted to studying and trying to get a grasp on Catholicism. I was confirmed Lutheran (LCMS) back in the late 1980’s but the only reason I became Lutheran at the time was because my ex-wife is Lutheran. I was essentially a Baptist in a Lutheran church. I haven’t been to a Lutheran service since my divorce from my first wife 17 years ago when I started attending Baptist churches again. The period of time between 2000 - 2007 I fell away from the faith, turned my back on God, though I knew deep down He was calling me to return, He was remained faithful to me even when I was so backsliden . My wife and I have been married for 8 years so I’ve been going to Mass with her. She’s Catholic and I’m not but I desire to worship God with the wife I love. I haven’t been to church at all for some time as taking care of dad is a 24/7 commitment. When I am able to start going to church again it is my intention to attend a Lutheran church (LCMS) in the small town I live in (unless I convert to Catholicism) and I’ll also go to Mass with my wife.

In His Grac

 

[PRmerger]

Hi again Porknpie,

In fairness and honesty to the Lutherans at CAF I only have a very basic understanding of what Lutherans believe. All of my time the last few years have been entirely devoted to studying and trying to get a grasp on Catholicism. I was confirmed Lutheran (LCMS) back in the late 1980’s but the only reason I became Lutheran at the time was because my ex-wife is Lutheran. I was essentially a Baptist in a Lutheran church. I haven’t been to a Lutheran service since my divorce from my first wife 17 years ago when I started attending Baptist churches again. The period of time between 2000 - 2007 I fell away from the faith, turned my back on God, though I knew deep down He was calling me to return, He was remained faithful to me even when I was so backsliden . My wife and I have been married for 8 years so I’ve been going to Mass with her. She’s Catholic and I’m not but I desire to worship God with the wife I love. I haven’t been to church at all for some time as taking care of dad is a 24/7 commitment. When I am able to start going to church again it is my intention to attend a Lutheran church (LCMS) in the small town I live in (unless I convert to Catholicism) and I’ll also go to Mass with my wife.

In His Grace

I think you should know that unless you got an annulment from your first marriage, and you are living as husband and wife with your 2nd wife, your current wife cannot be receiving communion.

I hope she is aware of this?

 

[JMM1957]

Hi again Porknpie,

In fairness and honesty to the Lutherans at CAF I only have a very basic understanding of what Lutherans believe. All of my time the last few years have been entirely devoted to studying and trying to get a grasp on Catholicism. I was confirmed Lutheran (LCMS) back in the late 1980’s but the only reason I became Lutheran at the time was because my ex-wife is Lutheran. I was essentially a Baptist in a Lutheran church. I haven’t been to a Lutheran service since my divorce from my first wife 17 years ago when I started attending Baptist churches again. The period of time between 2000 - 2007 I fell away from the faith, turned my back on God, though I knew deep down He was calling me to return, He was remained faithful to me even when I was so backsliden . My wife and I have been married for 8 years so I’ve been going to Mass with her. She’s Catholic and I’m not but I desire to worship God with the wife I love. I haven’t been to church at all for some time as taking care of dad is a 24/7 commitment. When I am able to start going to church again it is my intention to attend a Lutheran church (LCMS) in the small town I live in (unless I convert to Catholicism) and I’ll also go to Mass with my wife.

In His Grac

You don’t know how many stories I have heard about how people converted to the Catholic faith from another faith, because they just happened to go into a Catholic Church for Mass one or two times to see what it was all about, that’s all it took for them to feel at home there, and the rest was history.

Taking care of your dad like that and going to Mass with your wife speaks volumes to me about the kind of person you are. I pray that you find your way.

 

[In_His_Grace]

I think you should know that unless you got an annulment from your first marriage, and you are living as husband and wife with your 2nd wife, your current wife cannot be receiving communion.

I hope she is aware of this?

I have a decent understanding of the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage and the related issues of divorce and re-marriage as well as the necessity of annulments in such cases. No, I don’t have an annulment from my first marriage and you are correct, my wife shouldn’t be receiving communion. I have explained this to her so she is aware of this and chooses to receive communion anyway. She is a 48 year old cradle Catholic, poorly catechized and a cafeteria Catholic. Does this bother my conscience? Yes!

In His Grace

 

[PRmerger]

I have a decent understanding of the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage and the related issues of divorce and re-marriage as well as the necessity of annulments in such cases. No, I don’t have an annulment from my first marriage and you are correct, my wife shouldn’t be receiving communion. I have explained this to her so she is aware of this and chooses to receive communion anyway. She is a 48 year old cradle Catholic, poorly catechized and a cafeteria Catholic. Does this bother my conscience? Yes!

In His Grace

Again, another example that you are a man of integrity. :tiphat:

 

[In_His_Grace]

You don’t know how many stories I have heard about how people converted to the Catholic faith from another faith, because they just happened to go into a Catholic Church for Mass one or two times to see what it was all about, that’s all it took for them to feel at home there, and the rest was history.

Taking care of your dad like that and going to Mass with your wife speaks volumes to me about the kind of person you are. I pray that you find your way.

Thanks JMM1957. I have to admit that I love going to Mass, the most perfect form of prayer, thanksgiving, and worship, the joining of heaven and earth.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Again, another example that you are a man of integrity. :tiphat:

Thanks PRmerger but it still bothers my conscience that my wife receives communion when I know she shouldn’t. What really gets my goat is that the priest at her parish is completely aware of the situation and does nothing to stop her from receiving communion.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Anyway, goodnight and I really enjoyed talking with ya all.

pax

 

[JMM1957]

Thanks PRmerger but it still bothers my conscience that my wife receives communion when I know she shouldn’t. What really gets my goat is that the priest at her parish is completely aware of the situation and does nothing to stop her from receiving communion.

I just took this off the EWTN library website:

Only God knows with absolute certainty a person’s state of grace. The individual person can reach a reasonable moral certainty as to the present state of his soul. The priest usually has no knowledge as to a person’s state of grace. Even if a priest knows that a certain person is a habitual sinner, he cannot know if, before coming for Communion, that person has repented, confessed and is striving to remedy his ways.
Even if the priest is practically certain that a person should not receive Communion and would be committing a sacrilege by doing so, he should not publicly refuse to administer the sacrament. No person, not even a grave sinner, should be publicly exposed for hidden faults. Everybody has a right to preserve his good name unless it is lost by the sinner’s public actions or in virtue of a public penalty.

 

[eazyduzit]

What scripture does state is that baptism replaces circumcision. Circumcision was normally performed on babies. I guess I could be “smart” and say that it isn’t one man believing for another which is true. It isn’t a man but a child that parents are making the decision for just like in circumcision. So basically you are right one man can’t but we aren’t talking about a man.

I would like to see where that is in the bible. Romans 4 explains that it did not save.

 

[Porknpie]

I would like to see where that is in the bible. Romans 4 explains that it did not save.

Here’s a Catholic.com tract on the subject. A good read.

2 Col. below:

11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

St. Paul then relates that not only is circumcision no longer valid for Christians, neither are the other Jewish boundary markers of dietary laws, festivals/holidays and the Sabbath.

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.

A very confusing point above for SDAs. They dismiss St. Paul’s words on the Sabbath no longer applying for Christians. Just as the Sabbath no longer applies, replaced by the 8th day, the Lord’s Day, neither does circumcision apply, replaced by baptism.

OT to NT Prefigurements:

• The Jewish day of rest, the Sabbath on Saturday, …prefigures…The Christian Day of Rest, the Lord’s Day, Sunday.
• Circumcision…prefigures…Baptism

 

[JMM1957]

I would like to see where that is in the bible. Romans 4 explains that it did not save.

Circumcision did not save, as it was only a sign of being a member of the Old Covenant. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant by establishing the New Covenant of which baptism enters us into, and this baptism does save. Just as the sacrifice of bulls and goats in the OT couldn’t take away sins, the one time sacrifice of Jesus on the cross takes away all sin for all time.

 

[PRmerger]

I have a decent understanding of the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage

Just so we’re clear…it is not the Catholic Church’s teaching, but ***Christ’s ***teaching on marriage.

I don’t know how all these other denominations, claiming to be Bible Christians, can get around the fact that Jesus said, “If you divorce and re-marry, you commit adultery”.

Not our words. Not our teaching.

Christ’s words. Christ’s teaching.