Z
zz912
Guest
So the work of changing your heart brings you salvation?
What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?
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Z
zz912
Guest
Could you provide a citation of the book, chapter and verse in the Bible where it claims to be the sole rule of faith?
B
benhur
Guest
That is not the posing question. It is how do you get into the Body ? And it is about how Christ gets into you.
Blessings
Z
zz912
Guest
What are all the conditions for salvation according to Scripture?
B
benhur
Guest
Absolutely. Change . “This the the work of God , that ye believe on Him who He sent”
Blessings
Z
zz912
Guest
By eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood, right?
Z
zz912
Guest
So it’s an action you take to participate in your salvation. Correct?
B
benhur
Guest
Touche. :knight2:
That is not what I meant though, but thank you for the post.
Actually it is also the in dewlling of the Holy Spirit that is essential.
Blessings
B
benhur
Guest
Participate in that I am the affected person.
Blessings
P.S.- Is there anything good in us with which to participate with ? Is our will good, or our soul, or our spirit, or our mind, or our heart good before the rebirth/change ?
P
PJM
Guest
Nomy friend;
Christ work is not finished NOR s OURS.
From the Cross He proclaimed: “I THIRST”; meaning even in Dying Christ desired to do more
.
This is further verified in the four time the Gospels tell us that we MUST “take up our crosses” in order to follow Christ
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 9:23
And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Salvation dear friend is ALWAYS a process. Indeed it is by God’s Grace that we are Saved; but it is the OBEDIENCE to His Teaching; especially on the Seven Sacraments He, Jesus Instituted to be a SOURCE of Grace towards our meriting our salvation:thumbsup:
God Bless you,
Patrick
P
PJM
Guest
“Or come to HIS Church”…
In order to do that one would HAVE TO "come to today’s Catholic Church
WHY?Because the bible relates that GOD always and every time; without even one exception taught and accepted ONLY ONE
One God:thumbsup:
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why then doth every one of us despise his brother, violating the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
One set of Faith beliefs:thumbsup:
[2] With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. [3] Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4] One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism.[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. [7] But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.
ONE & only ONE Chosen people [OT] & Just One Church in the NT:thumbsup:
Exodus 6:7
And I will take you to myself for my people, I will be your God: and you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the work prison of the Egyptians.
Mathew 16: 18-19
[18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon [YOU PETER] this rock I will build my church, [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail **against it. [Also singular] ** [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
To dwelve deeper into this singular truth please READ in sequence:
Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
John 17:11-26
Mt. 28:16+20
Please take careful note of the single tense nouns and specific verbs use by Jesus when addressing directly AND exclusively His Apostles amd their successors.
The Holy Spirit my friend has LED YOU to this site so that you MIGHT learn His actual Truth which only the Catholic can share in its fullness
God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]
P
PJM
Guest
**aking up a cross is not a condition for salvation.
My dear friend in Christ: actually IT IS
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me
Mark 8:34
And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 9:23
And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 5:10
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given for Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
For an example of the just judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which also you suffer.
So dear friend is the bible wrong:shrug:
God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]**
M
Michael68
Guest
Thank You PJM! The verses you posted are great and disproves the notion that Catholics don’t read the bible!!!
B
benhur
Guest
Hi PJM“Or come to HIS Church”…
In order to do that one would HAVE TO "come to today’s Catholic Church
Because the bible relates that GOD always and every time; without even one exception taught and accepted ONLY ONE
One God:thumbsup:
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why then doth every one of us despise his brother, violating the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
One set of Faith beliefs:thumbsup:
[2] With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. [3] Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4] One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism.[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. [7] But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.
ONE & only ONE Chosen people [OT] & Just One Church in the NT:thumbsup:
Exodus 6:7
And I will take you to myself for my people, I will be your God: and you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the work prison of the Egyptians.
Mathew 16: 18-19
[18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon [YOU PETER] this rock I will build my church, [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail **against it. [Also singular] ** [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
To dwelve deeper into this singular truth please READ in sequence:
Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
John 17:11-26
Mt. 28:16+20
Please take careful note of the single tense nouns and specific verbs use by Jesus when addressing directly AND exclusively His Apostles amd their successors.
The Holy Spirit my friend has LED YOU to this site so that you MIGHT learn His actual Truth which only the Catholic can share in its fullness
You have articulated your point very well. Then again, that is my point, that Catholics are very good at proclaiming their church and that it is “the” church". We all do that a bit but not to your (C’s) extent. I feel it is at the expense of proclaiming Christ, and having that down as pat. Plus that is more universal to all Christian churches (meeting a saving Jesus). It is tough to preach Christ and “come to my church” at the same time. The more you single out your church as the unique way to go the more the saving gospel is encumbered. I am speaking of presenting the gospel to a lost world. There is a time to quibble after that, but not at the front door.
Thank you for your verses on oneness. Denominations is not the only way to define “church” and ''oneness". For sure it is a fault of P’s (so much division), but disagree then to say they are not “His church”. There are other traits the church is also to have besides “oneness”, and we are all in glass houses, all, C’s, P’s, O’s, etc…
Remember also JW’s also claim "oneness’’ and have same exact liturgy round the world on any given Sunday. Assemblies of God are quite "one’’ all around the world, as are Lutherans, etc, .etc…
Is it not humble for some to admit that they at least belong one of the denominations within the Body ? And the opposite would be to say they are not a denomination at all, as a few do ?
Blessings
E
eazyduzit
Guest
**aking up a cross is not a condition for salvation. **
My dear friend in Christ: actually IT IS
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me
Mark 8:34
And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 9:23
And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 5:10
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given for Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
For an example of the just judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which also you suffer.
So dear friend is the bible wrong:shrug:
God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]
Then did St. Paul deceive the man in Acts 16:30 who asked “What must I do to be saved?” He did not say “Take up your cross.”
Is the Bible wrong when it declares that salvation is"…not of works lest any man should boast." Eph2:9?
M
Michael68
Guest
I don’t think denominations is part of the plan. Just my opinion
B
benhur
Guest
Hi M,
Yes and no. It is not His plan for us not be one, not to be holy , not to be apostolic, and not to be universal, not to be loving as He is loving, that is are we perfect at all times in each of those areas ?
Yet Jesus own words says leave the wheat in with the tares, and he will sort it out .He does say that, and it appears that is what is happening. We all exist side by side, the O’s and the C’s and the P’s, the real presence folks and the symbolic/spiritual folks, etc., etc…
Blessings
Z
zz912
Guest
You do realize you’re equating Protestants with the tares, right? You remember what happens to the tares, don’t you?
Maybe your example proves more than you realize.
Z
zz912
Guest
Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32** Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him **and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
You’re assuming too much. Notice that Paul spoke the word of the Lord to them. He instructed them on the teaching of Jesus, and the requirements of the New Covenant. The phrase “believe on” in Scripture does NOT mean a simple mental assent to something. It means an active faith. It means to acknowledge who He is, AND to obey Him and His teachings. You can’t claim to “believe” in Him and NOT obey His commands.
Z
zz912
Guest
Simply getting them to the front door isn’t enough if you take them to the wrong building. And preaching for people to come to His Church in no way takes away from preaching Jesus. It enhances it. Jesus and His Church are united, and there is no separation. So the closer you bring someone to the Catholic Church, the closer you bring them to Jesus.
There’s one faith. I don’t believe there’s a single doctrine that all P’s can even agree on.
There is a quite a bit of disagreement among AoG and Lutherans among their various churches. Depending on which particular location you go to or what preacher you listen to, you will hear a different gospel.
That’s the issue. There are no denominations in a Body. A body by definition is a single unit, with a wholeness and lack of separation. Denomination, which means to separate, is contrary to the very idea of a Body.
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