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bookgirl32
Guest
The good news is that God made it possible for everyone to please Him.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Could you please share your understanding of the gospel? If you already posted your answer to the OP question, please give me the post number to your answer.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
God is love.
How did God demonstrate His love for us?For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Rom 5
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I’m confused to what you are saying? Is the gospel the church or God Himself? I believe God is the gospel. What actually is His message?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Do you wish to explain your thoughts. It seems that those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8
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bookgirl32
Guest
It comes down to this: We both, obviously, believe that “God is the gospel”. Jesus is the Word. The ways in which the Word communicates Himself to us is where we differ. We believe that Jesus, in His new covenant with us, set up the Church and gave to it the deposit of faith. The Church communicates this through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, and has the apostolic right to interpret and define this revelation through the Magesterium.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I’m so glad that we agree that God is the gospel! Maybe God gave us His Church so we can know Him better?
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bookgirl32
Guest
Of course He did. Now, exactly which Church is it?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
There is only one everlasting church and one body in which Christ is the head…Of course He did. Now, exactly which Church is it?
For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. - Ephesians 1
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bookgirl32
Guest
Sigh. This will derail the thread, so you should (or I could) probably start one on justification/sanctification here in Apologetics. That being said, those who have their mind set on the flesh only do so because that is what they have chosen.
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bookgirl32
Guest
You’re right. There is only one everlasting Church.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
So, who adds to the church?
And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. - Acts 2
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fhansen
Guest
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 1Cor 5:21
To “become the righteousness of God” is a process. Sins are forgiven but we must still “go, and sin no more”.
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,… Rom 8:13
Living by the Spirit is only made possible by Gods’ grace-but it still involves a choice and effort by man, as this and other verses spell out.
Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31, quoted in Hebrews 8 & 10, speak of the new work God desires to accomplish in man since the time in history became ripe. This involves change/transformation/new hearts-where God becomes man’s God directly again-finally arriving at beings who are one in will with Him. The following verses also relate to my post in some manner or another:
**"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Matt 5:17, 20-22**
Not only our actions but our hearts, first of all, must be in the right place.
**“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matt 22:36-40
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Rom13:10**
God would never give man commandments he couldn’t possibly keep-He just knows what Adam & Eve didn’t and the rest of us need to learn-that* we need Him* in order to be capable of keeping them-and nothing less will satisfy Him. Why should it?
**Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” 1Pet 1:15-16
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. Heb 12:14**
We must do our little part to become worthy to see the Lord. Ultimately, to be holy/perfect is simply to come to love as God loves. And this is a requirement for entrance into heaven, and I agree with the wisdom of this requirement.
**With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26
**
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2nd_Adam
Guest
So, what is the gospel in your view? If we must be made perfect and holy, and love as God loves to enter Heaven… then I really don’t see this to be good news at all. The gospel is about what God has done for us, the ungodly and the wicked. How can you enter in the Sabbath rest found in Christ alone?
Peace with God Through Faith
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Rom 5
From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - 2 Cor 5
Future Glory
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
God’s Everlasting Love
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. - rom 8
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17
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Cr8ton
Guest
There is a difference between “Justification” and “Sanctification” according to the scriptures. Agreed?
“Sanctification is an ongoing transformation within a maintained consecration, and it engenders real righteousness within the frame of relational holiness. Relational sanctification, the state of being permanently set apart for God, flows from the cross, where God through Christ purchased and claimed us for himself (Acts 20:28; 26:18; Heb. 10:10). Moral renovation, whereby we are increasingly changed from what we once were, flows from the agency of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13; 12:1-2; 1 Cor. 6:11, 19-20; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 13:20-21). God calls his children to sanctity and graciously gives what he commands (1 Thess. 4:4; 5:23).”
cited from monergism.com/sanctification_the_christian_g.php
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Carlan
Guest
Not really teach, unless you are meaning to point out to me that the way of life I should be seeking is one of goodness and happiness by surrendering my heart to God the Father to be changed and submissive to His will.
Already done that. The Gospel in a nut shell so to speak.
Carlan
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2nd_Adam
Guest
This is the link from above. Please note that the author of this work is J.I. Packer who is a signer and supporter of ECT 1 and ECT 2.
Sanctification - The Christian Grows in Grace
**J.I. Packer **(from Concise Theology)
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?..And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Cor. 6:9, 11).
Sanctification, says the Westminster Shorter Catechism (Q.35), is “the work of God’s free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.” The concept is not of sin being totally eradicated (that is to claim too much) or merely counteracted (that is to say too little), but of a divinely wrought character change freeing us from sinful habits and forming in us Christlike affections, dispositions, and virtues.
Sanctification is an ongoing transformation within a maintained consecration, and it engenders real righteousness within the frame of relational holiness. Relational sanctification, the state of being permanently set apart for God, flows from the cross, where God through Christ purchased and claimed us for himself (Acts 20:28; 26:18; Heb. 10:10). Moral renovation, whereby we are increasingly changed from what we once were, flows from the agency of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13; 12:1-2; 1 Cor. 6:11, 19-20; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 13:20-21). God calls his children to sanctity and graciously gives what he commands (1 Thess. 4:4; 5:23).
Regeneration is birth; sanctification is growth. In regeneration, God implants desires that were not there before: desire for God, for holiness, and for the hallowing and glorifying of God’s name in this world; desire to pray, worship, love, serve, honor, and please God; desire to show love and bring benefit to others. In sanctification, the Holy Spirit “works in you to will and to act” according to God’s purpose; what he does is prompt you to “work out your salvation” (i.e., express it in action) by fulfilling these new desires (Phil. 2:12-13). Christians become increasingly Christlike as the moral profile of Jesus (the “fruit of the Spirit”) is progressively formed in them (2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; 5:22-25). Paul’s use of glory in 2 Corinthians 3:18 shows that for him sanctification of character is glorification begun. Then the physical transformation that gives us a body like Christ’s, one that will match our totally transformed character and be a perfect means of expressing it, will be glorification completed (Phil. 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:49-53).
Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God’s work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic - it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin’s dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14-18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God’s method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10-14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ’s enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we “stay put” (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly - and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).
The standard to which God’s work of sanctifying his saints is directed is his own revealed moral law, as expounded and modeled by Christ himself. Christ’s love, humility, and patience under pressure are to be consciously imitated (Eph. 5:2; Phil. 2:5-11; 1 Pet. 2:21), for a Christlike spirit and attitude are part of what law-keeping involves.
Believers find within themselves contrary urgings. The Spirit sustains their regenerate desires and purposes; their fallen, Adamic instincts (the “flesh”) which, though dethroned, are not yet destroyed, constantly distract them from doing God’s will and allure them along paths that lead to death (Gal. 5:16-17; James 1:14-15). To clarify the relationship between the law and sin, Paul analyzes in a personal and dramatic way the sense of impotence for complete law-keeping, and the enslavement to behavior one dislikes, that the Spirit-flesh tension produces (Rom. 7:14-25). This conflict and frustration will be with Christians as long as they are in the body. Yet by watching and praying against temptation, and cultivating opposite virtues, they may through the Spirit’s help “mortify” (i.e., drain the life out of, weaken as a means of killing) particular bad habits, and in that sense more and more die unto sin (Rom. 8:13; Col. 3:5). They will experience many particular deliverances and victories in their unending battle with sin, while never being exposed to temptations that are impossible to resist (1 Cor. 10:13).
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Not really teach, unless you are meaning to point out to me that the way of life I should be seeking is one of goodness and happiness by surrendering my heart to God the Father to be changed and submissive to His will.
Already done that. The Gospel in a nut shell so to speak.
CarlanIn case you are curious…
Christian Hedonism is: God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him - Piper
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_hedonism
desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/2006/1797_We_Want_You_to_Be_a_Christian_Hedonist/
We Want You to Be a Christian Hedonist!
By John Piper
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tweetymom
Guest
The Church that lives in my heart, thanks be to God.Of course He did. Now, exactly which Church is it?
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jmcrae
Guest
How can a Church live in your heart?Church is the external expression of our faith, when we assemble with others who are of like mind. It’s not something we can do by ourselves “in our heart.”
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