What is the 'great apostasy' claimed by Mormons?

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TexanKnight said:
To be honest, I can’t remember. I had a train of thought going at the time. Since then, I have made other posts and have spent the last 2 hours reading legal documents while working on Discovery. Oh well. Maybe it will come to me…
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:rotfl:
You are one funny dude…
 
OK. Let me pose this (and hope my auto-correct does not mess me up)

Let’s say you are the huge big Boss of an organization. You leave People in control. In time, you find out that the folks you left in charge began to sell things they should not sell to make themselves wealthy. Let’s say your leaders begin to terrorize people. They start wars. They have disputes about who is in charge that cause horrible divisions in the organization. They wrongfully imprison those who disagree with them. People begin to lose faith in your organization. You have tried to correct them to no avail. Do you continue to leave them in authority or do you withdraw your authority?
 
The Catholic Church was started by God, the incarnation as a matter of historical fact.
Mormons demand a failed Christianity, a failed Christian Church. It was invented by a guy 1800 years after Christ and he made many claims (revelations) which have been proven false.
That is why we see Mormons unable to defend their religion but must make up stuff to assault Christianity. Catholics don’t have to do that, we just have to defend the Church from the assault.

At times Mormons are so bent on assaulting Christianity, they “shoot themselves in the foot” by assaulting Jesus Christ himself or even the Bible to try and save the Book of Mormon. This from people who claim to be Christian and restoring a Church founded by Christ. We don’t have to resort to such nonsense because we have history and reason on our side.
 
Stephen168 said:
The Catholic Church was started by God, the incarnation as a matter of historical fact.
Mormons demand a failed Christianity, a failed Christian Church. It was invented by a guy 1800 years after Christ and he made many claims (revelations) which have been proven false.
That is why we see Mormons unable to defend their religion but must make up stuff to assault Christianity. Catholics don’t have to do that, we just have to defend the Church from the assault.

At times Mormons are so bent on assaulting Christianity, they “shoot themselves in the foot” by assaulting Jesus Christ himself or even the Bible to try and save the Book of Mormon. This from people who claim to be Christian and restoring a Church founded by Christ. We don’t have to resort to such nonsense because we have history and reason on our side.
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Let’s not get into failed revelations, failed teachings, and failed leadership. It could get embarrassing and get me banned again for enumerating it.

I can defend everything. But I prefer folks who criticize to have clean hands and make sure their own church is pure. The whole mote in the eye thing.

That is my point. We can both cast stones. A lot of stones. But why? Is that what Jesus wants you to do? Does it make you feel good?
 
Stephen168 said:
By ignoring, post #76, it is clear you can’t.
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No. It means I do not see the point and I fear banning again.

But, if it makes you a better representative of Christ to act this way and feel like I can’t. Then please, go ahead.
 
TexanKnight said:
Was it? It was in a response to a thread…about why I believe there was an apostasy…I thought, given the topic, it was an answer. And a very soft one I did not list everything…I did not enumerate anything I just mentioned traditions.

And MUCH less bashing than what others were saying TO me.

But I suppose you are unable to see that.
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Yes, it was bashing. You said that we believe in “nebulous tradition from man”. No, that is not what Catholics believe in. It is a disrespectful way to refer to our beliefs, on a Catholic forum.
 
TexanKnight said:
After the apostles, I am sure you know about the things that went on with selling indulgences, inquisition, anti-depressants, etc. The list is long and I have no desire to list the many, many things that went on against God’s law that I believe resulted in the authority being pulled. If you are not aware of these things, I recommend that you study Catholic history. Be blessed
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Rebecca’s post earlier demonstrates why this line of thinking in trying to prove a great apostasy of Jesus Christ’s Church occurred is fallacious:
RebeccaJ said:
But yet you have also said that behavior of individuals is not an indicator whether or not a church is true…paraphrasing.

How much sin does it take for an apostasy? At what point does God give up on us? How much sin is too much, and don’t you think given enough time the Mormon church leaders will fill up the quota (whatever it is)? Do you think God is a fickle and frail creature that is scared off by sin? How is it God can call you, a sinner, to Him but when it comes to any other Catholic, God has left the building? Do you really think the Bride of Christ is beyond redemption, but you personally are not?

The Protestant temptation is that Jesus abandoned His bride, making it necessary for Christians to figure out where He went. The claim is based on a belief that our sins drive away Jesus, when Jesus showed us on the cross that our redemption is fulfilled in Him. Just because you give up on sinners, does not mean Jesus does.

I was using your “logic” to demonstrate how illogical it is.
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LivingWaters7 said:
Yes, it was bashing. You said that we believe in “nebulous tradition from man”. No, that is not what Catholics believe in. It is a disrespectful way to refer to our beliefs, on a Catholic forum.
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Actually, this particular is called non-catholic. And I am surprised that nebulous is offensive yet me being called names, my church called a fraud, etc is acceptable

No. Actually, I am not surprised. It is what I have come to a expect 😉
 
TexanKnight said:
After the apostles, I am sure you know about the things that went on with selling indulgences, inquisition, anti-depressants, etc. The list is long and I have no desire to list the many, many things that went on against God’s law that I believe resulted in the authority being pulled. If you are not aware of these things, I recommend that you study Catholic history. Be blessed
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:rotfl: :rotfl: I’m sorry, I got a good laugh in real life out of that auto-correct blunder.

I think you need to separate bad or questionable contemporary practices from doctrines and dogmas on faith and morals. An Apostasy happens when the latter element has some issues; if the teachings changed, if doctrines were abrogated, etc. Sure, bad stuff happened during the abusive usage of indulgences, the Spanish Inquisition, the jacked-up prices of Valium and Prozac (😃 sorry, couldn’t help it), but when has the Church changed in its substance a doctrine or a dogma on faith or morals? You don’t see a change throughout the years, but rather, a development as Bl. John Henry Cardinal Newman said.
 
Micosil said:
:rotfl: :rotfl: I’m sorry, I got a good laugh in real life out of that auto-correct blunder…
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! (Que music)
Our chief weapons are surprise… ruthless efficiency…anti-depressants… and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope…
😃
 
TexanKnight said:
After the apostles, I am sure you know about the things that went on with selling indulgences, inquisition, anti-depressants, etc. The list is long and I have no desire to list the many, many things that went on against God’s law that I believe resulted in the authority being pulled. If you are not aware of these things, I recommend that you study Catholic history. Be blessed
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So are you of the opinion that the so-called great apostasy happened much later than previously speculated by members of the LDS church then? Perhaps during the Middle Ages or even the Renaissance?
 
TexanKnight said:
Let’s not get into** failed revelations**, failed teachings, and failed leadership. It could get embarrassing and get me banned again for enumerating it.

I can defend everything. But I prefer folks who criticize to have clean hands and make sure their own church is pure. The whole mote in the eye thing.

That is my point. We can both cast stones. A lot of stones. But why? Is that what Jesus wants you to do? Does it make you feel good?
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Um…yeah…
 
TexanKnight said:
Let’s not get into failed revelations, failed teachings, and failed leadership. It could get embarrassing and get me banned again for enumerating it.

I can defend everything. But I prefer folks who criticize to have clean hands and make sure their own church is pure. The whole mote in the eye thing.

That is my point. We can both cast stones. A lot of stones. But why? Is that what Jesus wants you to do? Does it make you feel good?
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TexanKnight said:
I urge my LDS brethren to leave that Church and we will welcome you with incredibly open arms to the true Church that Christ established before He left the earth and that He PROMISED would never be defeated. We will welcome you into fellowship that includes HIS body and HIS blood…We will welcome you into a fellowship that includes a loving Mother to whom we can go to for comfort and to whom we can as to aid us in our Petitions to God.

We will welcome you.
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