What is the 'great apostasy' claimed by Mormons?

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Times and Season Vol 6:
A PARABLE.

There was a day when a certain great king [God] proposed a marriage for his son [Jesus Christ], prepared a dinner, and proffered to bequeath to his son one of his provinces, on the day of the marriage.-The woman [Christ’s Church] that was to be the bride was very fair and beautiful, her adorning was that of a crown with twelve precious diamonds [Apostles] set there and placed upon her head, holding in her hand a reflecting rod, by which the bright rays of the sun was brought to reflect upon the diamonds, giving light both day and night, so that she walked not in the dark, but as in the light of the noon-day sun, to guide her steps. Her features were fair and comely, decked with virtue, innocence, and loving kindness, administering to all who came under her care; she surpassed all women in wisdom, in faith, and other like precious gifts and graces. The surrounding neighborhood, together with the inhabitants of said province, looked upon her with jealousy and waged war against her and her intended espousal, and treated them as their worst enemies and succeeded in banishing the king’s son from his province, which caused the woman to mourn with a great and grievous mourning until she was comforted by tidings from the great king, who promised to bring back his son again, and (seeing his dinner was despised) he would prepare a supper [the gospel], and invite all the inhabitants of the province to come to the marriage supper of his son, and that his son should be made king over the whole province, and that he would cause the rod of iron which was in the bride’s hand to reflect light over all the kingdoms in the province, as this son was the legal heir; and the different kingdoms should become the kingdoms of his son.

This glorious news gave encouragement to the intended bride and enabled her to stand firm through many hard battles; at last the emperor of the nation that was warring with the woman, changed his course and proclaimed peace. The emperor [Catholic Church] by this means hoped to become in possession of the rod of iron, which seemed to be destined to rule all nations; the woman now was overpowered and was embraced in the emperor’s arms, and at this critical moment the king himself stepped forward just as the woman was ready to deliver up her authority to the emperor, and took the rod out of her hand and carried it home to his own dominions and rescued the woman out of the emperor’s hands, and secreted her in a neighboring woods, that her life might be preserved. This enraged the disappointed emperor with madness and revenge; he renewed the war, declared his greatness, claiming that he had received from the woman all the authority of the king’s son, putting to death all who dared to deny his assertion. The woman wandered in the wilderness for many days, lost the diamonds out of her crown and being destitute of the reflecting rod, she lay dormant in the wilderness; or in other words asleep, having nothing but the pale rays of the moon to guide her feet. She mourned, she wept, she lamented her untimely widowhood, longing for the return of her banished husband; in all this she was some comforted, waiting with hope and listening with great anxiety to hear the glad news, behold, the bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet him, put on thy former apparel and prepare thyself for the completion of the marriage; and all those who refuse this my second and last invitation, shall not taste of my supper; this glad news for her was promised to be declared by a messenger from the king who was to bring back the reflecting rod, and all its attending beauties, authorizing the same to be proclaimed to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, saying, with a loud voice, fear the great king for he is about to execute judgment upon all the rebels.
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Times and Seasons Vol. 6 pg 858:
Q.-4. Who banished the king’s son?
A.-The Jews.

Q.-5. Who put to death the woman’s friends?
A.-The Roman Church.

Q.-6. What was the rod?
A.-It was the power and priesthood after the holy order of the son of God, which the church had; and was delivered of it, or rather, it was taken from her in the year 570, and the church fell into the hands of the Pope of Rome.
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IGotQuestions said:
What do they believe were the steps that led to it?
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This is quoted directly from the pamphlet given to me by the Mormon missionaries who came to my house:
**
The Great Apostasy
**
Following the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted and killed many Church members. Other Church members drifted from the principles taught by Jesus Christ and His Apostles. The Apostles were killed, and priesthood authority - including the keys to direct and receive revelation from the Church - was taken from the earth. Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called The Great Apostasy.

This apostasy resulted in the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings. During this time, many men and women sought the truth, but were unable to find it. Many good people believed in God and Jesus Christ and tried to understand and teach truth, but they did not have the full gospel or priesthood authority. As a result, each generation inherited a state of apostasy as people were influenced by what previous generations passed on, including changes to Christ’s gospel.

Some inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost. They tried to reform the churches to which they belonged. Without priesthood authority, however, Christ’s gospel could not be returned to its original form. A restoration was needed.
 
gazelam said:
I don’t have time to chime in right now, but would point you to this outstanding book by Tad Callister which goes in depth regarding regarding the LDS view of early Christian apostasy.

amazon.com/The-Inevitable-Apostasy-Promised-Restoration/dp/1590385497

I hope this helps…
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Here is a recommendation for The Apostasy That Wasn’t, an outstanding book with an opposing view:

amazon.com/Apostasy-That-Wasnt-Extraordinary-Unbreakable/dp/1941663494/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456337140&sr=1-1&keywords=the+apostasy+that+wasn%27t
 
gazelam said:
I have this book but have barely started it.
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I have it too but haven’t even opened it. My son took it to read before I could get my hands on it.

I would love your thoughts if you get a chance to read it.
 
The claim is that the church in reality ceased to exist, hence the need for Joseph Smith to restore the Church. I think it is an essential part of Mormon teaching, considering what God said to Joseph Smith, that all the creeds of the Churches were abominations.

I don’t think a great apostasy can be proved though and I think there are troubling implications behind the idea. If Christ promised hell would not prevail against his church and apparently hell did prevail against his church for 1900/1800 or whatever amount of years, then what guarantee does the Mormon Church have of it’s continuing to be preserved?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
The claim is that the church in reality ceased to exist, hence the need for Joseph Smith to restore the Church. I think it is an essential part of Mormon teaching, considering what God said to Joseph Smith, that all the creeds of the Churches were abominations.

I don’t think a great apostasy can be proved though and I think there are troubling implications behind the idea.** If Christ promised hell would not prevail against his church and apparently hell did prevail against his church for 1900/1800 or whatever amount of years,** then what guarantee does the Mormon Church have of it’s continuing to be preserved?
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That for me has always been the biggest weakness of the idea of a Great Apostasy. I mean say what you will about the various branches of mainline Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant), they all profess in some way or another that they’re either the early church itself, part of the early church or that Christ’s church has always encompassed all Christians in some way. The commonality being that the Church never failed regardless of interpretation of what makes up the Church.
 
Padres1969 said:
That for me has always been the biggest weakness of the idea of a Great Apostasy. I mean say what you will about the various branches of mainline Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant), they all profess in some way or another that they’re either the early church itself, part of the early church or that Christ’s church has always encompassed all Christians in some way. The commonality being that the Church never failed regardless of interpretation of what makes up the Church.
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Excellent point.

Also, the belief in the Trinity.
 
Padres1969 said:
That for me has always been the biggest weakness of the idea of a Great Apostasy. I mean say what you will about the various branches of mainline Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant), they all profess in some way or another that they’re either the early church itself, part of the early church or that Christ’s church has always encompassed all Christians in some way. The commonality being that the Church never failed regardless of interpretation of what makes up the Church.
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this and the fact that Mormons do not believe in the Trinity is why they are not Christian.
 
lax16 said:
This is quoted directly from the pamphlet given to me by the Mormon missionaries who came to my house:
**
The Great Apostasy
**
Following the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted and killed many Church members. Other Church members drifted from the principles taught by Jesus Christ and His Apostles. The Apostles were killed, and priesthood authority - including the keys to direct and receive revelation from the Church - was taken from the earth. Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called The Great Apostasy.

This apostasy resulted in the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings. During this time, many men and women sought the truth, but were unable to find it. Many good people believed in God and Jesus Christ and tried to understand and teach truth, but they did not have the full gospel or priesthood authority. As a result, each generation inherited a state of apostasy as people were influenced by what previous generations passed on, including changes to Christ’s gospel.

Some inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost. They tried to reform the churches to which they belonged. Without priesthood authority, however, Christ’s gospel could not be returned to its original form. A restoration was needed.
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Thanks, God Bless, Memaw
 
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Stephen168:
the church fell into the hands of the Pope of Rome.😃
 
Originally Posted by Times and Seasons Vol. 6 pg 858, 1845
Q.-4. Who banished the king’s son?
A.-The Jews.

Q.-5. Who put to death the woman’s friends?
A.-The Roman Church.

Q.-6. What was the rod?
A.-It was the power and priesthood after the holy order of the son of God, which the church had; and was delivered of it, or rather, it was taken from her in the year 570, and** the church fell into the hands of the Pope of Rome**.😃
 
It would seem perplexing to me that an all mighty Creator would bother to become one of His creatures, reveal the truths of God to these creatures, suffer and die at the hands of these creatures only to rise from the dead to open the doors for eternity in Heaven to said creatures and then leave no mechanism for this revelation to be passed down throughout the ages. 🤷

It would seem that this god would not be much of a god, not to know the nature of his creation.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
The claim is that the church in reality ceased to exist, hence the need for Joseph Smith to restore the Church. I think it is an essential part of Mormon teaching, considering what God said to Joseph Smith, that all the creeds of the Churches were abominations.

I don’t think a great apostasy can be proved though and I think there are troubling implications behind the idea. If Christ promised hell would not prevail against his church and apparently hell did prevail against his church for 1900/1800 or whatever amount of years, then what guarantee does the Mormon Church have of it’s continuing to be preserved?
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If Christ had a “do-over”, then hell did not prevail…just like when God had a re-do with the flood…did Satan defeat God then?
 
phil19034 said:
this and the fact that Mormons do not believe in the Trinity is why they are not Christian.
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Under YOUR definition, perhaps so. Please show me the verse in the Bible where Jesus said only Trinitarians are Christian. I have read the Bible several times and have not seen it. I would be forever grateful
 
DCNBILL said:
It would seem perplexing to me that an all mighty Creator would bother to become one of His creatures, reveal the truths of God to these creatures, suffer and die at the hands of these creatures only to rise from the dead to open the doors for eternity in Heaven to said creatures and then leave no mechanism for this revelation to be passed down throughout the ages. 🤷

It would seem that this god would not be much of a god, not to know the nature of his creation.
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is it just as hard to believe that God would create his world, set His plan in place, have prophets to teach and train…then kill everyone except 8?
 
There was no do over with the flood. There was a small group of faithful, who are part of a continuous line in salvation history.

The so-called great apostasy is based on there being no continuous line of faithful.
 
RebeccaJ said:
There was no do over with the flood. There was a small group of faithful, who are part of a continuous line in salvation history.

The so-called great apostasy is based on there being no continuous line of faithful.
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Ah…so creating the world and then killing all but 8 is not a do-over?

Interesting
 
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