What is the 'great apostasy' claimed by Mormons?

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As everyone should know, it’s just a made-up belief necessary for J.S. to start a church after his own liking.

I guess the “logic” goes like this:

Christian churches today (as well as in the 19th c.) teach things that are incompatible with Mormonism, the Trinity being one prominent example. The Apostles and the members of the earliest Christian Church were, of course, Mormons. Therefore, there must have been a “Great Apostasy”.

It doesn’t make a difference if there’s no historical proof; if it makes no sense considering Who started the Catholic Church which He Himself said is His Church that He founded on Peter (the Rock) and which He Himself said would last until the end of time and Who , with the Father, He sent on His Apostles to be with them always, teaching them all truth; or if it goes completely against Scripture and the ways of Almighty God we see in Scripture.

“I know the Book of Mormon is true is true. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know the Mormon Church is true.”

“There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet.” They might as well include, “I know the Quran is true,” the Quran being their new “holy book” given directly to their “prophet” by an angel. Sound familiar?

It’s amazing the parallels between Mormonism and Islam. Obviously, J.S. pulled things from the Islamic religion that he thought would be useful to his made-up story and new church, along with elements of his Masonic religion. Muslims, in a similar way, believe that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were Muslims and that when Jesus walked the earth, it was not God walking the earth, but only a man. Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet; Mormons believe that he was a man who eventually became a god through “progressive transformation”. I’m not sure what Muslims would say about the whole “Christianity” thing. Probably that it is a Great Apostasy! (the “true faith” being “restored” in the 7th century by Mohammad, of course). Sound familiar? Just substitute “Joseph Smith” for “Mohammad” and “the 19th century” for the “7th century” and there you go!

Interestingly, Muslims also believe that the Trinity is an “abomination”. In J.S.‘s made-up story, he said God told him “all Christian creeds are an abomination”. Of course the Apostles’ and Nicene Creed concern primarily: The Trinity! They were developed in response to Christological and other heresies concerning God Himself and as a statement of what it is that we believe. Like this line: “God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father.” Not quite to J.S.'s or his god’s liking. Abominable! Surely a sign that there must have been a “Great Apostasy” by this point in Christian history.

“O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead [us].”
  • Psalm 43:3
God bless
I can find a ton of similarities between Muslim and Catholics…when I worked for Muslims, I was Catholic…we talked a lot…they had interesting things to say as well…about Catholics. Again, God , understandably, withdrew authority…why wouldn’t He? his Church could continue later…it never died…it always existed…the authority was re-established.

But…again…why is it y’all only wish to fight and insult? I guess I do not understand how one can profess God then act like this.
 
Refusing to engage with illogical rhetoric, is not dodging.
a dodge followed by a justification. Expected…understood thank you. You have done exactly what I expected…and I totally get it.
 
Ok…this thread has run it’s course. My point was proven…

Perhaps now folks can simply be nice…no more insults…no more digs…just act like The Christ we profess to follow…
 
Ok…this thread has run it’s course. My point was proven…

Perhaps now folks can simply be nice…no more insults…no more digs…just act like The Christ we profess to follow…
What, that there a no rational argument behind th so-called great apostasy? Yep.
 
OK. Let me pose this (and hope my auto-correct does not mess me up)

Let’s say you are the huge big Boss of an organization. You leave People in control. In time, you find out that the folks you left in charge began to sell things they should not sell to make themselves wealthy. Let’s say your leaders begin to terrorize people. They start wars. They have disputes about who is in charge that cause horrible divisions in the organization. They wrongfully imprison those who disagree with them. People begin to lose faith in your organization. You have tried to correct them to no avail. Do you continue to leave them in authority or do you withdraw your authority?
You don’t destroy your organization. You replace the bad people with good people you trust.
SO do you withdraw your authority? No, you reorganize and renew. But your organization remains. You don’t start over.
 
Ok…this thread has run it’s course. My point was proven…
As long as you dodge post #76, you have proven nothing.
You also dodged posts 37, 41, and 122.

You might be taking the same advise the President was given about Vietnam, “declare victory and withdraw”
 
Ok…this thread has run it’s course. My point was proven…

Perhaps now folks can simply be nice…no more insults…no more digs…just act like The Christ we profess to follow…
For a lawyer, you have awfully thin skin.
Just answer the question.
Which REAL organization fits the hypothetical narrative you gave?
Why is that so hard?
 
my gosh…it was many things…not the least of all was the Holy Spirit confirming to me.

I listed some of the miracles a year ago…and had them mocked by the loving Catholics here…so I will not make that mistake again.

Someday, the folks here will learn to love…charity will be a prt of daily contact…we can all share and be glad of our common bonds
How do you know it was the Holy Spirit confirming you? As I pointed out earlier Galatians chapter 1 verse 8
 
For a lawyer, you have awfully thin skin.
Just answer the question.
Which REAL organization fits the hypothetical narrative you gave?
Why is that so hard?
I feel like we should probably get back to the OP? I would love to dialogue with Texas Knight but I think that should be a separate post
 
You don’t destroy your organization. You replace the bad people with good people you trust.
SO do you withdraw your authority? No, you reorganize and renew. But your organization remains. You don’t start over.
The two problems I had with his little analogy is:
  1. The Holy Spirit is missing
  2. Mormonism is not able to prove there ever was an ancient Mormon Church to go into apostasy and then restore.
So the Mormon “corporation” did not exist until Joseph Smith invented it.

The Christian “corporation” was never left with just people in charge. The Holy Spirit, God himself, has been in charge for 2000 years as Christ promised.
 
Ok…this thread has run it’s course. My point was proven…

Perhaps now folks can simply be nice…no more insults…no more digs…just act like The Christ we profess to follow…
:confused: I really don’t understand. Where precisely have I dodged anything? You just dismissed my answer claiming it to be a dodge when I discussed precisely what you said. 🤷
 
:confused: I really don’t understand. Where precisely have I dodged anything? You just dismissed my answer claiming it to be a dodge when I discussed precisely what you said. 🤷
Micosil, I answered his question using his analogy, and he didn’t respond. 🤷

An owner of an organization doesn’t dismantle it just because he has management who end up screwing things up. You replace the management and renew the the organization

Happens all the time.
 
Micosil, I answered his question using his analogy, and he didn’t respond. 🤷

An owner of an organization doesn’t dismantle it just because he has management who end up screwing things up. You replace the management and renew the the organization

Happens all the time.
Not true and you know. If what I described went on…if that level of corruption went on, authority will be pulled.

Again, I figured this thread was over. Nothing more can be accomplished.
 
Not true and you know. If what I described went on…if that level of corruption went on, authority will be pulled.

Again, I figured this thread was over. Nothing more can be accomplished.
Why would it be over? You never answered the question.
 
Not true and you know. If what I described went on…if that level of corruption went on, authority will be pulled.

Again, I figured this thread was over. Nothing more can be accomplished.
And it would be given to others, but the organization would not be shut down and tossed out.

Organizations go thru re-organizing all the time. Even today. I’ve seen it happen in my own family’s industry. 🤷

It happens all the time.
 
And it would be given to others, but the organization would not be shut down and tossed out.

Organizations go thru re-organizing all the time. Even today. I’ve seen it happen in my own family’s industry. 🤷

It happens all the time.
I doubt your family had that kind of corruption. But yes. It would be given to others. And it was. Hence the LDS Church
 
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